[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

18 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Yes and no. They can still do well, but I stopped using bridge due to it exposing them. Now that I have been using Night Runners to cover more screening distance, I could go back to using the Bridge and have a reliable screen... that said, I don't think it's needed. I definitely think the 'standard' 40 Monks + 6 Fiends list is effectively dead.

I've been going with 3 threats minimum and so far it's been working exponentially better; I don't have to call the game as soon as the Fiends die early on as I have other tools to deal with problems. In this regard, I've used Acolytes to great effect and being much cheaper allows me to much easier fit in 3-4 threats. Here's a quick math-comparison of 6 Fiends vs. 20 Acolytes with +1 hit (Vigordust) and +1 damage (Spark) between using just Deranged Inventor for the hit RR's and getting off MMMWP:


I would likely be running 25-30 Acolytes, but I wouldn't assume all would make it in which is why I calculated this with 20. Bottom line is the comparison are about equal; both have a nearly identical threat range and killing potential, although Acolytes will be less defensive.. but in my experience that doesn't matter much as things can just as easily 1-shot the Fiends as they can 30 Acolytes. Using the above, you save 200 points which can be thrown at plenty of other things.

I've talked in the past about Fiends + Acolytes being ran together is okay to do and can work well, but I think that overall we're seeing a shift towards more than 2 threats being on the board.

Seen your graphs before, may I ask what tool you are using?

On topic: Damn! Didn't even know that, and I think you're on the right track. I might even try to replace them with the WLC's, I have the jezzails for long range threat.

I suppose you're running something similar these days? 30 acolytes, 9 jezzails, 40 monks?

[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

Been playing with only Stormfiends for a long time, but in the current meta I feel they're really poor. Their best attack has a threat range of 18" and many armies have ways to deal with it before they become a threat. Never tried bridge, but with just 6 stormfiends now I don't feel it's even an option. Also, not getting MMWP off on them gimps them severely. So, I've come up with the following list:

Quote

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164
 

I tried it out yesterday against Daughters of Khaine, and damn I was impressed with it. Jezzails give so much pressure, and if that wasn't enough an HPA eats up Witch Aelves like they're nothing. He did play the temple with -1 to hit, but WLC's don't care and with MMWP I got plently 6's on the Jezzails.

Lost in the end still due to bad placement and great luck on his charges, but I felt I had a chance compared to my other regular lists (40 monks, 6 stormfiends)

[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

6 minutes ago, Lazaris said:

You're right. I tend to take Verminlord + Bell for the rule of cool (and the Warpseer is a pretty good tank), but they both lack a punch.

I have 20 half-painted plague monks, so maybe it's time to invest more in them and take them out on a ride.

I have to say that Thanquol is also very appealing to me. I like low-model counts.

You won't regret either, moving a unit of 40 monks is a hassle, but damn do they pack a punch

For Thanquol I've always ran him with 2 ranged 2 melee weapons, you still do immense horde damage and your melee damage isn't completely gimped.

[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Lazaris said:

He summoned, got double turn and then buffed everything... It's really frustrating. 😢

The only way I can avoid getting flanked that way is either to roll better (lel) or to park my units in the center of the board, so that the summoned units can't reach me. Problem: I won't be able to contest objectives that are close to an edge of the board, and I make myself more vulnerable to charge from the front.

Yea getting double turned on such aggresive lists is really terrifying, can't do anything about that and it's really frustrating. FEC has high movement so it's not like you could deploy outside of that.

Quote

I'll try that.
Hopefully Windlaunchers will be enough to deal with multiple archregents. I never manage to be in range of Ratling guns without putting myself at serious risk.

No clue what kind of lists he's running, but maximum ghouls aren't really competetive, nor running more then 1 archreagents. He's gonna have a tough time against many other lists. You could consider dropping the WLC and Warpseer, going for horde clearing options like Thanquol or Warpfire Throwers if it's just against him. Or put in plague monks. You basically have 1 threat, and that's the Stormfiends as the bell and warpseer do no damage and are basically there for support. Checking your list again, I see no reason to bring the bell as it fits the same role as the Warpseer for battleshock immunity. And I'd rather run the bell with 40 monks then a verminlord as they've always disappointed me in both support and damage for the price. Killing the clanrats in your list which is quite easy also makes your bell immobile.

[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

3 hours ago, Lazaris said:

With the spell for extra attacks, a command point to fight twice, a varghulf courtier, rerolling hits of 1 and a double turn, I suffered 101 attacks that cleared my clanrats, then the guy proceeded to wreck the juicy targets behind the screen.

I did try to charge his ghouls with my stormfiends after gunning down some heroes/monsters, but the clubbing blows are not reliable enough to clear the unit entirely (and then on the next turn he brings back the dead models).

Fun fact: I tried to fight him with another army (Legion of Chaos Ascendant), but whatever I do, the double turn gives him the victory.

If he summons 20 ghouls and a varghulf, he couldn't have had the extra attack spell on him, as he summons on the end of his movement.

But yes, if he managed to put that on 20 ghouls, with feeding frenzy and a king wholly within 18" he'd be able to reroll 1's to hit. Basically, you'd have to be wary of pile-in ranges, you know FEC by now. Just place your juicy targets further behind your clanrats so he can't possibly pile-in and be able to hit, so you get an free attack with your juicy stuff behind if he does.

Another tip, shoot his leaders. Death armies in general fall apart without leaders, he'd lose the 6++ save, the ability to feeding frenzy, etc. And with MMWP you should be able to kill the courtiers from a distance at relative ease.

MMWP/Vigordust melee stormfiends should be able to kill plenty ghouls, as they have a save of 6+ and 6++. Also, a terrorgheist falls fairly easy to 40 plague monks. All in all, I don't know how I'd fare (quick math, you'd kill 17 ghouls on average with buffed clubbing blows, that's without the 2 actual melee stormfiends, considering you play them as a unit of 6)

 

[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

8 hours ago, Lazaris said:

Hi guys!

How do you handle Flesh-eater courts?

I'm struggling a lot against my friend's list, because he can reliable flank me by summoning 20 ghouls + 1 varghulf with his abhorrent archregents, and if he gets a double turn, my clanrats usually get destroyed, then the rest of my army gets massacred right after...

I feel like the only way to survive is to turtle somewhere, hope to avoid a double turn, and shoot things that are coming at me, but then I can't play the objectives (which are capped by terrorgheists or crypt horrors).

Here's the kind of lists I bring in 1750 points:

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Magic
- Artefact : Suspicious Stone
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin : Plague
UNITS
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
6 x Stormfiends (520)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

 

Playing both FEC and Skaven, but never played against FEC as Skaven yet... I know FEC hits fast and hard, but they have no saves. 20 ghouls vs 20 clanrats shouldn't clear the unit of clanrats. Focus all your fire on the terrorgheists from the Stormfiends, with MMWP you should have no problem bringing them down, use the WLC with an overload on a gheist/dragon, I believe you should be able to handle them quite well with the tools we have available.

Place your gnawholes right, pop through em with buffed Stormfiends and annihilate his armies, with MMWP try the charge, they can't really handle aggresive play as they need to be the aggressor.

Also, getting the Dreaded Warpgale off on a Terrogheist is devasting on turn 1, check your range before deploying as FEC will usually always outdeploy us.

[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Screaming bell buff, if your lucky at rolling a 7

Check!

And his ability, Power Behind The Throne, if I read it correctly you can't use the ability on the same friendly hero? So you'd actually need 4 hero's to make full use of it? And, just to clarify, his bonus to cast is only to casting, not unbinding/dispelling?

[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well considering that you can get him to +4tp cast even, I would say so

Damn, forgot the +1 from the gnawhole, that's insane. Where'd you get the 4th from?

[AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion]

Was looking through previous tournaments, and someone actually went 4/0/1 with the below list:

Quote

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Projectors
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
- 1x Clawleader
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
- 1x Clawleader
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
- 1x Clawleader

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
- 4x Standard Bearers
- 4x Plague Harbingers
--1x bringer of The word
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Quote

 

 

Which is actually quite surprising to me, since I've always thought Thanquol to be not worth it's point.

Now, I'm wondering about his casting, he usually has +2 on full hp. Is that an better option math wise then rolling his 3d6 casting ability? When is it better? When he does not have the buff? Quite sure I saw that before on this forum but can't find it anymore...

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

21 hours ago, DaCapo said:

Is gristlegore good actually ? 

Something like this ?

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Gristlegore
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- General
- Trait: Savage Strike
- Artefact: Ghurish Mawshard
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
- Mount Trait: Razor-clawed
Crypt Infernal Courtier (120)

Battleline
Gristlegore Royal Terrorgheist (300)
Gristlegore Royal Terrorgheist (300)
Gristlegore Royal Terrorgheist (300)

Battalions
Royal Menagerie (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 76
 

It works, but it's hard due to not having many models which means you can easily lose objective based games. And even though they have alot of wounds, they still die pretty easily. Considering you want to spend CP when they die, and want a leader close, I personally played a variant with 4 terrogheist (1 of them mounted) and added a ghoul king on foot and the archreagent.

That gives you bodies to work with to keep on objectives, and you can try and keep the ghoul kings near your gheists. Also, the d3 extra attacks from the archreagent makes the gheists so good.