Celestantpants
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Posts posted by Celestantpants
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Hey everyone, what is your favorite Stormhost? As far as fluff is concerned, I should add. My favorite is the Hammers of Sigmar. What can I say, I'm a sucker for the main characters, the examples all others are judged by, etc.
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59 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:
Normally I'd agree, swords are very cool- but a dragon knight with a lance is simply too iconic. And it seems like it would be hard to actually hit anything with a sword from dragonback.
Very true. You make a good case. However, I still think the knight draconis with his flaming sword is the coolest model SCE have, even if he isn't very practical.
Although building the SDG with lances DOES help him to stand out more...
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Bah! The only true answer is swords are cooler. Swords are always cooler.
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I also find a further points hike to be unlikely. It would be crazy to tack on another points bump when they already told us what their points were going to be in the winter faq preview for them.
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35 minutes ago, PJetski said:
This has been my biggest concern with the Stormcast book since day 1. We have good warscrolls with terrible/boring allegiance abilities, so we live and die by our points. As more battletomes get released with interesting and powerful allegiance you can expect Stormcast to get relatively weaker and even less interesting...
I'm glad I have other armies
Yup. This is what I have been saying. Which is why I have been so annoyed with all of these constant nerfs coming so quickly. We got our book kneecapped before any other tomes get released, and then when those tomes start to get released we see that they get a ton of rules that outclass us and look fun.
It really does feel like stormcast just can't have nice things when we get hit so hard and then see what other armies get. Especially when all we have is strong war scrolls that likely will get hit by points increases early into into the tomes life.
Like I said before: What are we left with when our only truly good units get hit by points nerfs? A simplistic and boring army that is also weak. Just like most of 2.0. It sure is happening fast this time around isn't it? I'm also glad I have another army to play. Looks like I am going to be playing COS for most of 3.0. Just like 2.0. It's sad.
Hopefully though once the balance FAQ after the winter FAQ comes out we will get some point drops that help us. That doesn't help with the boring and simplistic aspect of our army, but at least with point drops Stormcast won't also be bad on top of all that. Maybe. Who knows what crazy stuff other tomes will get as more get released.
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25 minutes ago, readercolin said:
Ahh, well all the good Stormcast armies have 3 squads of liberators in them. They are all the same army. I don't know what you people are complaining about when they say that they are nerfing stormcast into the ground - you're using most of the same models, with the same allegiance abilities, spells, keywords.
Sarcasm in case anyone is dense enough to not see through that. But that is effectively what you just said about Tzeentch. If I keep the same book but have to go out and purchase 1500-2000 points for a new army because of meta/edition/FAQ changes, it is not the same army.
Please try to stay respectful to other posters. Your tone here is not needed. No one has been disrespectful to you, so please refrain from essentially calling other people here dense. Being upset is one thing, but insulting other posters is quite another.
As to your point, what you are talking about is lists. It's the same army, but different lists. That is the vocab we use. Just like your Stormcast example. The army is Stormcast eternals. Lists can all be different depending on the units, stormhosts, etc.
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54 minutes ago, Yondaime said:
Also, freaking overwatch, 1 turn of shooting and those longstrike killed skarbrand and a bt, and the last bt standong was killed by overwatch
why shooting have to be always so strong?
Yeah, unleash hell was in no way needed. Personally I'd be fine if they just deleted it from the game. As you say, shooting did not need that kind of boost. I'd prefer if shooting took more of a back seat. I don't like how strong it is either. I play AOS to have epic melee clashes, with some arrows sprinkled in here or there. If I want to play a shooting focused game I'll go and play 40k. That said, I agree with Pjetski: As long as other OP options are around the longstrikes are needed. Unleash hell can go straight to hell though.
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3 hours ago, Siorra said:
Every list I've seen that has done well in tournaments has either included Liberators or Vindictors. Vindictors in particular seem like the superior choice for Stormkeep armies or any amounts of reinforcing due to the range. They are not "not as good" as Liberators, as much as people in this thread seem to claim they are, they just perform a different role. You will absolutely not lose games because you chose to take them over Liberators, providing you play to their strengths - just like any other unit whose warscroll/points aren't completely off (hello Vanquishers).
Also, I'm highly suspicious of all these claims that the dragons are going to be rewritten. I remember reading that the points jump was the change they were going to receive in the winter FAQ, we just got it early so it wasn't a feelbad when it happens after people stocked up on them. I'm ready to be wrong here, but it sounds like a lot of doomsaying with no evidence to back it up, usually from the same select few posters too.
Hey, I hope you are right and there is no war scroll rewrite. You very well could be. Fingers crossed. I personally think they are fine at the new point cost.
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59 minutes ago, readercolin said:
Ehh, most factions take some time at the bottom of the barrel.
Kharadron Overlords were one of the top armies in 2.0 because they had a ton of damage and a ton of ways to deliver it. They are now one of the worst armies available, because their damage is done via rend -1 with a sprinkling of rend -2, and save stacking basically laughs in their face. Do we see anyone outside of KO players shedding a tear for how their army plays now that they have effectively been nerfed out of the game?
Slannesh was one of the the top armies for a while and at one point reached nearly a 70% winrate in competitive. Now they are bottom of the barrel because their new book nerfed them to heck and back. Do we see non-slannesh players shedding any tears for them now that they have fallen off the face of the earth?
Flesh Eater Courts were the terror of the battlefields for quite some time, and were kings in the "strikes first" meta that existed for a while. Then they got nerfed, and new books came out that had strategies that countered FEC, and went from top tier to the lower end of the mid tier. And is anyone shedding any tears for FEC players?
Fyerslayers were a terror running around with 3 blocks of 20 hearthguard berzerkers. Now they can run a maximum of 2 blocks of 15... leaving them with another 6 blocks of 5 that they can't reinforce because of the reinforcements limit. They also used to stack saves with various aura effects, but while previously they could get to a 3+, now they are capped at a 4+ because their base save is a 5+. The entire playstyle got taken out back and shot... but I am not seeing anyone shedding tears for them outside of the fyreslayers threads.
I could keep going on with more examples. What happened to Cities of Sigmar with the irondrake bridges of doom? What happened to the 6 monster Beastclaw Raiders lists? What happened to the seraphon players who bought into Saurus? What happened to the poor souls who were doing good with Bonesplittaz? How about the people that went deep on Skyfires when they were good? How about the entirety of Ossiarch Bonereapers, who can't use any of the nifty new features that came out with 3.0 because they don't use command points, but were terrors until petrifex elite got nerfed?
I would advise you to stop focusing how how it is affecting your one army. Things change over time, and Stormcast will get a few months to podium before falling back into obscurity like most armies. Yes, there are a few that come out and never amount to anything (looking at you beasts of chaos), but anything that ends up at the top of the pile for a while inevitably gets that final nerf that pushes them over the edge into the dumpster. Yes, it will be nice if after they are done nerfing, Stormcast still have a few lists that can reliably go 3-2, but if we're honest, that is about the power level that most armies should be at.
The problem with your examples though, is the Stormcast tome was never the top of the meta. It was never a terror that lasted for an extended time frame like many of your examples. We had a few lists go 4-1 and then got nerfed. We had units and abilities get nerfed incredibly quickly. Stormcast quite literally went from a terrible army to a quite good army with our new Tome, but that lasted like a couple months and we were in no way tearing up the meta, to likely subpar again soon. Again, all indications seem to be that we will quite quickly go back to being subpar again for another whole edition with only a scant few months of being legit good between two whole editions.
Here is what is going to happen: new tomes will come out and they will be more powerful than ours. Tome creep is a real thing, just look how it has affected 40k. We are going to get powered crept something fierce, especially with all our good options being hit so hard so fast. So we will likely spend most of 3.0 languishing on the lower end of the power scale. Just like 2.0. It's not a fun prospect. Our Tome is mostly devoid of fun combos and synergies and 90% of our units are either just ok or straight up trash. So we are left with a simplistic army that is over costed points wise and weak. Again, I just want Stormcast to be decent. If we average out at 3-2 that would be fine, but I doubt that is where we will end up as the edition carries on.
Also, my post you quoted was addressed to those implying that we should be nerfed to spare the feelings of other armies that get hit hard by fulminators and longstrikes. My point was that it is hard to feel bad for those armies when nobody sheds a tear for us, and that nerfing our best units because other people feel bad about about how much damage our units can do isn't the best reason for said nerfs. So in essence, should we worry about how other armies feel when our powerful units are actually powerful and destroy their favorite models? Sure, we want everyone to have fun after all. But a part of me also wants to say "welcome to what's been like to run Stormcast for the past several years. You sure didn't seem to care when you ran roughshod over us." Still, like I said, it's a game and everyone should be having fun. Just would be nice if everyone would think that way.
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My only issue though is that no one seems to care (outside of fellow Stormcast players) when our entire army is weak and unfun to play. Such as before our new Tome. They also don't seem to care how all the nerfs ruin the experience for Stormcast players.
I don't really see anyone outside of Stormcast players shedding a tear for how our army will play and feel if we get nerfed into oblivion. Not saying thats what happened yet, even if fulminators and longstrikes get nerfed. If those things happen we can still compete. The thing is, as new tomes come out we are going to get left in the dust. Again. No one seems to care about that.
So while I agree that we don't want to give the feel bads to other armies, it would be nice for people to make those same considerations for us. It gets old being the whipping boy.
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1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:
it's not "to death" but it is disappointing for sure. All of the new models look amazing so focus on that part if you need to. Rules are always subject to change, including not using GW rules if you don't like them.
Another thing to consider is GW has committed to doing balance changes more often, so if we do get hosed this time around, hopefully we will be get help on the next balance pass. I know it's small comfort now, but it's something.
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31 minutes ago, Naem said:
wtf guys, I dropped AoS for a while to focus more on 40k, then saw all this amazing new units and a new book and thought "sweet". Just dropped like 300 Euros on Dragons and the new sword dudes and looked forward to not sucking SCE and now you are telling me, we are getting nerfed to death again before I even put together my new models? :(((
And also - Vindictors are not as good as Liberators? I thought the ability to fight from two lines was very nice...and Annihilators are also only good with the great hammer option? Soooo why did I get two parts of the newish starter set, seems like actually nothing of that is viable? Oh my, I might just go back to my Marines
Barring a war scroll rewrite (which seems likely given the rumors) the Stormdrake guard are still good. Sadly, yes, the Vanquishers (sword dudes) are frankly terrible. Liberators are the proper pick usually due to being cheaper and we need all the points we can get. That said, vindictors are certainly not a bad choice at all. It's just that liberators being cheaper and being fairly comparable in overall effectiveness means we free up points for more elite units if we take them. Shield annihilators aren't bad, but they will melt to mortal wounds. You are better off going offensive and taking them as Grandhammers so they can likely delete whatever they get in combat with.
Also, yes, the book overall has taken hit after hit and soon literally every good trick, combo, or unit will have taken some form of hit (some of it was needed, some of it wasn't), with no buffs to weak units to compensate for the poor state that most of them are in. It has really killed the enthusiasm that many of us have had for the tome. Some are still true believers and more power to them. For me, I find myself less inclined to play a book that is so new and needed this much changing this fast. It's poor business to release a book in this state. It reminds me a lot of the mentality many video game companies have about releasing an unfinished and untested product and fixing it later.
This is all assuming that the rumors that Longstrikes and fulminators are getting nerfed, and we are getting no point drops in the winter faq, are true.
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21 minutes ago, Yondaime said:
Damn this will make them drop from broken to useless XD
Tbh Longstrike are not the problem per se, but with 2 tap and overwatch (cant still believe they putted that meccanic in aos) being a thing they are very VERY strong
GW doesn't deal in half measures, the nuclear option is the only option....unless you are drukari in 40k.
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4 minutes ago, PJetski said:
We drop inefficient support heroes like the Tauralon, maybe swap Raptors for Judicators
Not a big deal overall
Cool, that sounds reasonable. So likely fulminators stay despite nerf. They really are pretty important to passing the dps check.
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Assuming Fulminators and Longstrikes go up by the amount specified, what modifications to lists do you think we will see? Do we think people will actually go with Grandhammers, or are they too limited by missions?
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1 minute ago, Nizrah said:
If rewritte happen i guess it would be remove double move or nerf on shooting.
My guess would be they do both of those things. They will probably delete the Knight Draconis's ability to make them shoot twice once a game as well.
It will be interesting to see how they handle new Tomes that are coming out if they are overtuned, which some of them of course will be. It is going to be interesting to see if other armies get hit this hard this fast. Who knows, maybe they will and this is GW's new way of doing things. If it is, cool, then go digital with the Tomes. Don't charge so much money for a book that is out of date this fast. Or maybe they could start actually playtesting and proof reading before the Tomes come out. Crazy idea right?
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So I'm wondering what the SDG rewrites are. I mean, they hit them hard with points and then they are getting a rewrite as well? Pretty crazy. Any chance that the point changes took into account the new war scroll, or did they nerf with points based on the current war scroll and then they get double hit with a worse war scroll and points value based on a better war scroll? What I'm hoping and expecting with this are too different things.
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11 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:
Chap in the stormkeep discord. Same source previously advised menagerie change, translocation nerf and sdg points increase. Wasn’t specific on details, but has given a lot for winter faq.
Did this gentleman also say the SDG rewrite was happening?
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Also, looking more and more likely that dragons will get a war scroll rewrite, since all the other rumors seem to be happening. Who knows? Maybe it won't. Hmm. So if that happens our good units will be grandhammer annihilators and.......? Possibly judicators? How long till the Grandhammers get hit? Possibly an emergency nerf a month or 2 after? They do a ton of damage after all, and are likely going to be in a ton of lists. Given the way things have gone I can't imagine GW will let a SCE unit like that stand out for too long without getting a nerf.
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1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:
Winter rumours:
longstrikes +20 points
fulminators +30 points
no points reductions
sce can’t have nice things, news at 10
Did anything happen to the worst offenders in other armies did you hear?
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7 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:
That's exactly it: they need to do a full-on balance pass like every other wargame seems to do. Whatever way it shakes out, we paid extra for a new book that's already out of date. I decided to pass on the dragons because of that 110 USD price tag. If "balance pass" does not mean warscroll changes, well, I'll focus on hobbying what I have and use OPR or something instead of letting GW get under my skin.
Yeah, that's a good mindset to take. I also passed on the dragons, their price is crazy, especially when you factor in how unstable they seem to be rules/points wise. They are just too pricey to buy for cool factor alone. Maybe I'll pick some up later in the year off ebay. It's sad to consider, but if Stormcast don't get war scroll updates that fix some of our terrible units, we might be regulated to being a pretty bad army again pretty quickly. Sad for that to happen so fast. If it does, I might have to put stormcast back on the shelf for awhile and go back to playing my COS army every game. I love Stormcast, they are my favorite AOS army, but it's not going to be fun playing an army that is becoming simple to the point of ALMOST being boring AND bad on top of it. We are not there yet, but the future isn't looking bright for Sigmar's chosen.
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Once longstrikes and fulminators are nerfed this month, our next go to units will be grandhammer annihilators and dragons (assuming the rumor about a war scroll rewrite isn't true). Where do we go from there though? Once grandhammers and dragons become the pattern they will take a nerf bat to the face in the next balance update, and once that happens where does that leave us? Many of our other units can't replace them, even if they get point reductions. Things like vanquishers will never see the point drops needed to be competitive, for example. The problem is we have so many poor war scrolls that points alone can't fix due to how low they would have to get to be competitive, which won't fly in an elite army. Curious as to what you guys think.
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22 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:
I 100% disagree with that. If we are speaking about how competitive stormcast are, they are in a good spot now. In 2.0 it was one of worst army in the game, now in every single tournemant all over the world they pretty mutch always got 4-1 . Sometimes 5-0.
I dont think translocation prey nerf is a big deal in this army. Fulminators and logstrike are prob the best units in the game and tgere are many playable list/ units amd combos.
About stormdrakes their warscroll is the same. Prob one of the best warscroll in the game. You can still fit into a list 4 drakes and 6 longstrike , so I dont see a reason to cry about STCE!😓
..........you completely misunderstand what I meant by worst battletome release. It isn't the worst ever as far as being competitive. It's the worst ever because it has had so many changes in so short a period of time that completely outdate and invalidate a very expensive book. It's the worst ever due to how half ***ed and poorly they did with internal balance, wording, and play testing. No Tome should have this many changes this quickly unless it's free. Certainly not at the price they are asking. It just shows how incompetent they are that this many changes needed to happen this fast. The book should have been released in a better state.
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I don't even know what to say about that reveal from facehammer. What an absolute joke. This is literally the worst battletome release they have ever done. Can't wait for the next tomes to release with broken stuff that stays broken for most of the edition while continuing nerfs to Stormcast occur. After all, Stormcast don't need to be play tested, just wait to see what loud people say and then nerf accordingly. Who needs data? I mean, besides every other army in AOS and every army in 40k.
I mean, if GW isn't going to play test and instead do whatever the anti stormcast mob suggests, what should be next? Since they are going to change the dragons warscroll tge sky is the limit! Maybe change fulminators to damage 2 on the charge with 4 attacks and rend 1 on the charge in addition to the points nerf?
Maybe change the imperitant's deep strike ability to only work on redeemer units?
Maybe get rid of save stacking for Stormcast only because we already have good saves?
Maybe reduce the shots longstrikes get by 1 for each model in addition to point hikes?
How about reducing the vindictors save to a 4+ and make the shield a 6+ ward against mortal wounds from magic spells only?
I mean, like I said, if they are just going to abdicate playtesting and do what angry haters suggest then why not those changes sooner or later? What an absolute farce.
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Although building the SDG with lances DOES help him to stand out more...
Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
I'm very happy to be wrong about war scroll changes to dragons and points nerfs to fulminators and longstrikes. I said I'd happily admit I was wrong if those things didn't happen, so here it is: I was wrong, and I'm glad I was wrong. Good call to those of you who said it wouldn't happen.
This update is honestly pretty great for Stormcast from a competitive stand point. Expect to see Stormcast keep doing well at tournies.