Rors
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Posts posted by Rors
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I'm very confident that the gibbers are one item on the list. For battleline I'm less confident.
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4 hours ago, The Red King said:
Does anyone know if a gibbering congregation counts as 3 battleline choices or one? They "must be taken as a set referred to as a gibbering congregation. Although taken as a set, each is a separate unit."
Also how does that work with batallions? Do they take one slot because it's in the list building phase or 3?
My understanding is that you write gibbering congregation into the list, so for the purposes of battalions and the like like, it's one thing. But being 3 individual units in a set, you meet the 3 battleline units too. That said, BoC doesn't strike me as a book where the battleline is a tax.
IDK have a similar thing with their sharks.
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5 hours ago, The Red King said:
damage is pitiful. 9 avg dmg on a 4+ save (plus the likely 3 extra models you will eat).
I included the heardstone and monsterous action and got 11.67 vs a 4+ save or 15.56 if you all all out attack. Nothing amazing but not bad. However, Swallow Whole is what makes this guy an absolute killer.
You pick the models. So just always have this guy activate after they've had their pile in. Break the unit in half and ruin their coherency, forcing them to remove half the unit. You can also pull out banners and leaders etc.
More likely, you'll get two not 3 swallow whole roles because he effectively has always strike last if you want to get the most from him. However, between swallow whole and feast on flesh your going to be healing a lot.
A unit of 6 Drogers should do 24.61 wounds on the charge vs 4+ and then the D3 mortals on top.
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I'm reconsidering my list to put cockatrices in. In particular, running 2 blobs/lines of 4 morg spawn with a cockatrices behind them and the -1 shots spell.
It's just such an aggressive 'unit'. If the opponent has a lot of shooting I'll probably bring them in via ambush but against combat focused armies they'll be such a headache to deal with. Put them base to base and it's going to be difficult for a unit to not get tagged multiple times and on a 4+ they only hit on 6s.
Going down to one attack per model and 6s to hit makes most of the heavy hitters out there worthless.
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Yeah to be honest as soon as I find a good stl file for cockatrices, I'm getting a bunch. they'll also be showing up in my slaves to darkeness army. Sat behind a wall of nurgle warriors.. they're just such an amazing support model that I think they'll be showing up all over the place as allies too.
I could see chaos gargants being taken as allies too for the rend bubble.
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7 hours ago, Lupercal said:
How hard is this book going to end up crutching on going second in Turn 1, Ambushing most of their list, then keying for the double-turn into turn 2 once the Herdstone goes live?
As someone who loathes the double-turn mechanic, I would hate for that to become “the thing”?
It'll really depend on how much players lean into ambush. Even then, ambush lists want MSU and it's hard to MSU and one drop.
Also gors and a few other units really want to fight in two ranks so they won't one drop. The subfaction that teleports each turn isn't going to care about drops either.
It's entirely possible the best lists will have high drops, a single hammer that drops in from 7, and maybe a couple screens/objective grabbers that come in round 2.
Quakefrey is probably the biggest contender for battle regiment as Ghorgons and Cygors are squishy and making the battleline opens up the option.
Lastly, we have some of the best screens in the game still even though points went up in ungors. In allherd they can be spaces out like the skaven clanrat trick to be 1 inch apart and create huge walls without fear of loosing coherency.
In short, while you could 100% make a competitive list based around ambush and turn priority, I don't think beats are going to be forced in that direction.
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HoS can't be fixed with points alone because their rules don't have enough synergies.
BoC has one of the most layered books I've ever read. As with any book the internal ballance isn't perfect, there's definitely some losers. That said, even with how expensive the army is I think it's actually ridiculous what it can pull off.
BoC have more control and debuff tech then any book out there right now. We can move the opponents models, multiple ways to slow the opponent, multiple ways to reduce characteristics their attack profiles. Multiple ways to hand out always strike last. So many cool warscrolls, cockatrices making people only hit on 6s is nuts. Razorgor are absurd counter chargers behind screens of ungor.
I think this book will on average, loose more than it wins however I think that's because the skill ceiling on actually getting the most out of this book is way higher than normal.
Points will shift but if they brought this book down in points so that the average player is going 50/50 in games, the top players are going to utterly wreck people.
All that said, there are definitely some duds. Beast lord isn't appealing to me at all. Also, for many players who built there armies last book, having half or more become redundant because of points hikes shrinking the total army size will be a negative play experience during the list building stage for awhile.
I think the Gitz book is actually a good comparison because it's also extremely heavy on layering of rules but they went the other way and priced the points so that the average player has a good chance without using them properly.
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Yeah it'll be a great time to pick up the army because lots of players will be selling off models since the points went well up and summons are gone.
Ive seen negative reactions but I love this new book. It's a complete overhaul on BoC which is honestly what they needed.
Time will tell how over costed or not it is but this army has A LOT of tech.
Anyway, for fun here my 2k list. I'll post a report up once I get a game in.
Gavespawn
Shaggoth, general, cunning (7 inch deepstrike) and gnarlstaff 275
Braysharmen, stubborn aspect 95
3 Drogers 225
6 Drogers 450
3 Morghurite Spawn 230
3 Morghurite Spawn 230
3 Morghurite Spawn 230
Ghorgon 240
Battle regiment
1975
General idea is start with a spawn covering any home objectives, everything else off the board. One drop let's you choose to alpha or give them 1st.
Braysharman pull screens out of position or targets closer. 6 Drogers land 7 away to smash priority target. Shaggoth can use his artifact and season spell to pile mortal wounds on an objective. Spawn clog up board space and defend the Drogers.
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4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:
The issue is Nighthaunt have much better options for alpha pinning. I'm also skeptical of 20 blocks of Chainrasps holding up. I had a lot of luck with a block of 30 with Nagash... but had I run a block of 20 they'd have been dead. I had a Spirit Torment as well.
Also, I just don't thing Greiving Legion is good compared to the other subfactions. It doesn't have the utility of Emerald Host, doesn't open up battleline options, doesn't increase your damage, and even if it works; it creates a NPE for your opponent. I was high on it when I first read the book, but am not anymore.
I won a game against fyreslayers using blocks of 20 chainrasp with grieving legion last week. 5/5 save and minis 1 to wound makes them fairly hefty to lift. They were all dead by end of turn 3 but I was also so far ahead on points by owning the objectives that it didn't matter.
Grieving legion preventes him from retreating anything for rally in those early turns but in hindsight the same list would have been better in emerald host.
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I think this army will have a lower than average win rate but that will hide the higher than average skill ceiling on the list. I get the impression that we have LRL levels of tech we can bring to bear but with so few models it's going to take a lot more thought than the regular army to play.
I agree some units like Shaggoth are probably too expensive. while I like the Ghorgons, I suspected quakefray is a trap. Cygors doing mortals is cool though, if you have 2 or more within 30 that really hurts a magic army but it's also too many points invested and I reckon you'll have a really issue if the opponent just brings iron jaws or khorne or something.
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Oh boy, there's so much to unpack! This book is absolutely packed with synergies.
Some of the main take aways I see:
- the command ability for a 7 inches charge is great and we have genuinely terrifying alpha strike potential. Ungors can potentially shoot off screens at the start of the movement phase, or we can use a heroics action to pull targets into position.
- Ghorgons getting to pick 3 models to remove with 3 inches is brutal for coherency.
- Gavespawn spawn have a stackable ability to reduce a targets attack characteristics and cockatrices can make a target only hit on 6s. Combo?
- Gor, bestigor, and ungor are all a lot better.
- Razorgor and ungor make an interesting combo. Ungor have 25mm bases so they can screen the razorgor, who stay within 3 to then pile in with double the attacks. Ungor can flee in the combat phase to make room for razorgor pile ins. 8 attacks each at damage 2 is nothing to scoff at.
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7 hours ago, Prawncake said:
Hi all AoS noob here. I started getting into AoS near the end of last year and was immediately drawn to StD. I don't have a huge collection yet but I do want to try put together a reasonably competitive list (but for the most part I have no idea what I'm doing, or what my list may be lacking). I've tried to do as much research as I can and came up with the following list: Would love to hear some thoughts from the veterans on here for recommendations. The idea is to take advantage of the Galecian champions mechanics and go for an objective control list rather than search and destroy. (p.s. I haven't really put much thought into enhancements or grand strategy so if something seems like a bad idea it probably is
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- Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness- Subfaction: Host of the Everchosen- Grand Strategy: The Day is Ours!- Triumph: BloodthirstyLEADERSBe'lakor (355)- General- Spells: Binding Damnation, Warp RealityChaos Lord (115)- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle- Reaperblade and Daemonbound Steel- Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome- Spells: Daemonic Speed, Warp Reality- Aspects of the Champion: Stubborn as a RhinoxChaos Sorcerer Lord (120)- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle- Spells: Binding Damnation, Warp Reality- Aspects of the Champion: Leadership of the AlphaBATTLELINEChaos Knights (230)- Mark of Chaos: Khorne- Standard Bearer- Hornblower- Doom Knight- Cursed LanceChaos Warriors (440)- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle- Aspiring Champion- Murderous Weapon- 2 x Hornblower- 2 x Standard Bearer- Ensorcelled Banner: The Eroding IconChaos Chosen (480)- Mark of Chaos: Khorne- Exalted Champion- 2 x Icon Bearer- 2 x Skull Drummer- Ensorcelled Banner: The Banner of RageChaos Warriors (220)- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle- Aspiring Champion- Hornblower- Standard Bearer- Murderous WeaponENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS1 x Eightfold Doom-sigil (40)TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
I was thinking of maybe ditching the chaos knights for a gaunt summoner, as I don't feel like the chaos knights do their job as a hammer particularly well beyond their charge. I was also thinking of changing the chosen to mark of tzeench and giving them the tzeench banner instead for the 4+ range ward as I feel they'll be picked off before they can get into combat. The other idea is giving them the slanesh mark and banner to get into combat faster and from further away (turn one charge?
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You really need 6 GCs and a strategy for killing their GCs if you want to go with the day is ours. Nighthaunt or fyreslayers are kind of the benchmark for this.
None of your casters can take warp reality as they're not marked Tzentch.
Doom sigil is an amazing spell but it works best when you have screens that can die and then buff your hammers.
I personally think knights work in 10s with the khorne banner or not at all (or in 5s with nurgle as fast units to pin your opponent into their zone). Hitting on 4s isn't reliable. They'll nuke just about anything with all out attack and the banner though. Alternative to that is demonic power, does the same thing but more risky, it does get around roar though.
Competitively speaking the summoner doesn't show up much. He'll have an easier time this season though if he's on foot. One potential combo would be the GC artifact to let him teleport. Then he could jump across the board and drop a unit somewhere.
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The other thing I'm really considering this edition is grieving legion because once again, bounty hunters going away is huge.
Chainrasp have a less than 1 inch base so they can make single lines. 3 blocks of 20 is 60 inches of wall around their deployment.
For fun here's the list I'm thinking of. It's got double battalion for extra enhancements, don't have the list with me right now so sorry the names are off.
With this list you can get 9 units teleported (3 underworlds, 4 via boat n harrow, 1 spell, 1 GC ability). You can set up a wall around their deployment, then position your heros 2 inches behind that wall for pile into combat fun. Depending on what they have you can change what you put down. Banshees can be objective grabbers while you have them pinned or swap them for some spell protection. Palisade will stuff up shooting and they'll have a hard to getting away from it while pinned in. Lady O + Kurdos messes with their CP. And boat man and harrow have the utility of taking a unit each somewhere else if you need to jump back out.
Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Procession: Grieving Legion -
Leaders Awlrach the Drowner (170) General
Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King (210)
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (340)
Spirit Torment (120) with arcane tome (5+ ward) and come back to life on a dice rolle
Spirit Torment (120) With GC teleport and -1 to wound artifact
Dreadblade Harrow (130) mortal on charge
20 x Chainrasps (220) - Reinforced x 1
20 x Chainrasps (220) - Reinforced x 1
20 x Chainrasps (220) - Reinforced x 1
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (100)
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (100)
Endless Spells & Invocations Prismatic Palisade (30) Total: 1980 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 3 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 104 Drops: 11
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I think crossboos are viable now. Yes, their damage output is still trash, no points change will change that, but 90 points for a 4+ save with a 5+ rally and the only access to ranged damage. There's something there. I think you either take them as screens and cheap WoT trigger or you can build around them. I'm not sure about building around due to sunk cost but..
A maxed out size of crossboos is 270 points, you could drop two and a KoS. That's 60 shots, effectively 15 rend 1 saves you can force. Enough to kill the average GC. By itself that's not worth the points so let's go sunken cost and add 3 coaches and a harrow and give the KoS the leader GC enhancement.
Now you have 60 shots on 3s and 4s dropping 12 away. The goal is to kill at least 6 models so that the coaches can unleash 9d3 mortal wounds (these will fill each other up too). Then when you get charged you can stand and shoot with both units for 0 CP using the harrow to get the second stand and shoot.
Make the army grieving legion so they can't retreat from the crossboos while you nuke them with mortal wounds.
Pure speculation and likely sunken cost but I don't think they're anywhere near as bad as last time round because for how cheap they are it doesn't really matter that they're ****** and there is synergy in the book if you lean into it.
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I would assume it's only pile in within 3 unless an FAQ says otherwise. I really doubt that the intended when they wrote it was to allow them to break the normal pile mechanics.
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I believe when they fight a second time it's basically a normal activation so yes you can pile in again. Only point of difference is it's always strike last.
The tree lovers are powerful but they tend to have consistency issues, especially if they're throwing Durthu around. They need the spell for the charge buff to get the 9+ charge into statistically probable territory.
When you factor in that they need to cast the spell, not get unbound, then roll the charge, it's a lot of little hurdles that can trip them up. You can make this harder for them by either getting into the woods and screening them out or staying clear making the charges 10+.
Ultimately, what they really struggle with is holding objectives.
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Yeah the summoner on foot went from being just a worse version of the summoner on disk to a really interesting option.
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I think slaves are set to do really well in this edition. With bounty hunters gone but the option to have veterans still around, warriors are going to be amazing. Their ability to be a retinue also helps against sharp shooters.
This could be a great meta for cabalist armies as mentioned.
I suspect that more often being able to draw on power and use a second hero action will be better than the hero phase fighting.
The tzentch spell is waaaaay better in this edition because they're multiple scenarios where pulling a champion across the board is going to earn you VP.
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I'm just going off the rule of thumb being no additional saves for body guards, like with spirit host. Where as with fyreslayers it specifically says they can roll a Ward
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4 minutes ago, Bayul said:
Which Procession? The Emerald Host?
I get why Kurdoss is in here but see no necessity for any other hero, despite a good Wizard. I would reduce the amount of heroes to 3 and bring the Black Coach. It can teleport into position and wait for the Craventhrone Guard to arrive from reserve. Then kill at least 6 models with your crossbows and let the Black Coach finish the unit off in the very same shooting phase.
I would ensure having a tough backline, your opponent might deepstrike too. You read my position about the Gaunt Summoner on Disc in the S2D thread yourself.
Kurdoss could take that role with one or two unit of Spirit Hosts to protect him.
If you can reorganise your list to end up with 3 heroes max and 5 units max and the Black Coach as Behemoth you could take the Battle Regiment detachment to have a 1 drop army and secure the first turn. It might look like this:
Yep, emerald. The idea behind the heros is to do some janky CP stuff. The knight can issue stand and shoot for free, then the harrows can copy it. So both cravengaurd and lady O can stand and shoot. Then if they're looked in combat I can give multiple units a 5+ ward.
The idea was basically the entire force sans the one chainrasp. Do some shooting damage and set up a castle in their face. Stand and shoot then all the heros charge in and fight. After that, hopefully enough damage has been done that the harrows and boat teleport to objectives. I don't think it's a competitive plan, just trying to get the most from craventhone.
I like the idea of coaches though. Super charging them turn one for a bunch of 3d3 mortals... Could be on to something with an alpha strike list.
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3 hours ago, Bayul said:
A Chaos Lord can allocate MW of a failed Spite Tongue Curse to his retinue. If it's Chaos Warriors then they can use their Ward 5+.It's still a good synergy but I'm fairly sure warriors don't get the MW save when they're allocated wounds via the body guard rule.
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Yeah I keep getting tempted with cabalist. It's a ridiculously strong su faction ability and it gets even better next season when we can have two heroic actions + the demon prince can also use one - 3 heroic actions seems potent, especially when one of them is buffing all your casters.
The struggle for me is that the spell lore is good but it's a list lacks damage.
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Okay ghostly friends, trying some a bit different. I have a ton of old glade gaurd, thinking I'll cut their legs off, use some green stuff to make their cloaks a bit more ghosty and bam, craventhone guard. I know it'll never be a hyper competitive list but I'm trying to make the best I can out of a list built around them and suggestions would help.
Leaders
Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King (210)
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (340)
Dreadblade Harrow (145)
Awlrach the Drowner (175)
Knight of Shrouds (135)
- General
- Command Trait: Cloaked in Shadow
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Dreadblade Harrow (145)
Battleline
15 x Craventhrone Guard (345)
- Reinforced x 2
15 x Craventhrone Guard (345)
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Chainrasps (110)
Endless Spells & Invocations
Horrorghast (40)
The basic idea is two units of guard and the knight can pop up 9 away from the underworld, lady o uses spell teleport, kurdos catches a boat ride. 60 shots into their screens/support heros, then using the knight and harrows, both the guard and lady o can stand and shoot. Guard act as screens, so kurdos, lady O and harrows can really get stuck in.
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Personally I've been a fan of khorne varangaurd with spears. Cracks open armour and you can catch people out with the double activate and the extra reach
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Beasts of Chaos 3.0
in Chaos
Posted
I think ultimately this army will probably be an faction that wins by hold one, two, more and battle tactics turns 1-3 while denying the opponent.