Rors
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Posts posted by Rors
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I only just came across the new darkoath savagers and my gut reaction is they are brokenly good in idolators.
Double reinforce two units and blob them around a sorcerer.
Opponent takes an objective, you teleport a unit and so long as you roll a 3+ on two dice to charge they take it and you have 30 wounds on a 5+ ward that actually smack well above what their warscroll suggests when you account for having 3 leaders in every 10 on damage 2 that you put in the front ranks.
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10 hours ago, Kurrilino said:
And this is helping with the gaming experience how?
The solution to the problem is more well designed books not to wreck the game by following up bad with worse.
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For playability the army needs a huge overhaul of it's rules. New models would just be nice and generally there's one or two because that's a core part of GWs marketing strategy.
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I would have thought that with each season they'd focus on releases that are on theme. With this being the 'monster' season I would have thought an extra monster with each release would be a good way to go. Especially for nighthaunt since they're very lacking in this area.
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5 hours ago, Kurrilino said:
Actually a well balanced book makes an "S-Tier" army.
We run into the same problems like before, just combined it with being slow.
Our magic phase, while thematic, is difficult to cast and the few spells we have can be easily disabled by many other armies.
Our almost non existing shooting got way worse and we can't look anymore for help from somewhere else.
Because being extremely slow also takes away the option to pick fights to our advantage.
This is not a rant or complaining, this is reality
I absolutely think we will not be tabled but the games will be a very slow grinding loss. Not to mention what Slaneesh will do to us because of our contagious rule. This is auto loss from the beginning.
A way better use of contagion points lore and rule wise would be to weaken the opponents infected, like -to wound and -to cast in an aura... anything but those ultra low magic wounds here and there.
If the opponent is road blocking me with 5 cheap point models, the damage is already done.
And this is when a whole community looks at the "strong books" because ours is not rewarding skilled play,
it creates frustrating game experiences until people are fed up, doesn't matter how deep and cool the lore and internal balance is.
People are sick and tired of being the "most welcome|" person at the table while the other guys having tremendous fun mopping the floor with us.
Being well ballanced is by definition not going to be s tier because to be s tier you have to power creep above the standard power level.
S tier armies can make well ballanced armies feel weak by comparison and it becomes instinctive to use them as the comparison point for where ballance should go but that's a trap. It creates a doubling down on power creep and also skews the game really hard. For example in 40k a couple editions ago the power creep got to the point that certain lists just deleted the other side turn one. The game became extremely cookie cutter and was basically over by end of deployment. If the game is full of units of power similar to say Morathhi and bow snakes or others over powered stuff you have a ****** game where dice rolls are kinda pointless and stuff just gets deleted and it's about hitting first not strategy.
None of the s-tier army lists are good or well ballanced.
Specifically on the Nurgle question:
In terms of being grindy and slow, you have the options to build a no drop list that comes in from board edges and units like plauge drones are fast enough and will delete screens. You can also build a summon list. You also have the ability to charge in the opponents turn.
There's so many ways to build lists in this book. You can very different game strategy from what you build. No of them are s-tier, and that's good. The moment you have an s-tier build you get cookie cut spam lists and zero creativity.
You'll get mopped up by broken lists but the problem is the broken lists not Nurgle.
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Personally, I think a well ballanced book is way better than an 's-tier' army.
I think this book has a surprising level of depth and while never being brokenly powerful it'll reward skilled play.
As a community I don't think we should look to 'strong' books as the standard. The book has rule depth, fairly decent internal ballance and it's priced fairly as opposed to under or over costed, mostly.
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I'm also really keen on Kragnos with his new rules.
Lead belchers seems to have poor synergy with him as far as I can tell. You want to be both charging a unit of 8 for those impacts and using unleash hell. You'll be investing points in both and I suppose the utility is handy but it's points that feel hard to maximize return on.
I've been thinking Kragnos, Frostlord Stonehorn, firebelly, 4x moungfang in units of 2, and cogs. In thunderbellies as a two drop list.
Usually to counter Kragnos you'd try and spread out and screen, but then you'll get alpha'd by Mournfang.
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The new teasers 100% confirms there's some form of nighthaunt release incoming.
Looks like another squishy support hero..
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I'm hesitantly optimistic. Some of the images released on the community page are definitely night haunt.
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How about Kragnos with thunderbellies? Mournfang that can run and then charge 3d6+1 sounds fun.
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It feels like the book the changes for StD we're focused on internal ballance rather than external ballance. They nerfed units that are relatively auto-takes because they're far better value than the rest of the book but I don't think they consider how these units/the book fairs into other armies.
5 hours ago, Xasz said:It's mostly the Warshrine that keeps bugging me.
The Sorc Lord at least makes sense, as he was rather cheap to begin with (compared to similar casters) and has a strong auto-succeed ability.
Archaon nerfs and point increase on top of the Warshrine's feel a bit much, for an army that sits around a 50% win rate with only two builds (Archaon Sixth Circle, Knights of the Empty Throne).
A 50% win rate is actually what you want.
It would have been nice to see other options brought up so that there's multiple well ballanced builds rather than bringing the two ballanced builds down to parity with the rest of the book.
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5 hours ago, darkdaysdawn said:
Re. reinforced Spirit Hosts -- I started with 6 packs, then switched to 3's for the same reasons you provided. However, with so many heavy shooting lists, crazy charge damage, etc. from Kruleboyz, SC, Lumineth, etc, I find 3 Spirit Hosts often don't last long enough to be healed/resurected.
As far as coherency goes, the beauty of a 6 pack is that you actually want to lose one. As soon as you lose 1 model, you can fight with all 5. And if you lose another model, you're still better than a 3 pack, and no worse than you were at the start of the game, and you still have 12 wounds left for your opponent to chew through before you get to heal/resurrect.
I do find 3 is a nice deepstrike/back-line-annoyance unit though.
Interested in other people's thoughts. Cheers.
How does the rules interactions work with bringing back models for this?
You drop down from 6 and now you can attack with 5 but you also change your coherency to do so. When you out models back and go up to 6, you can't move any of them. Doesn't that mean after bringing them back to 6 you'd be forced to remove one again because they're not meeting the coherency rules for a unit of 6?
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4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:
It’s just occurring to me that Nagash isn’t an ally. I think this means we can still take allies.
Haha, how about Nagash and a mega-gargant?
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25 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:
This is the main issue with StD
They can raise and lower point costs as much as hey want.
The real issue is the rule writing. There is absolutely no reason to play the army as intended.
If you want to be not just killed in round 2 you end up with those weird units that doesn't even fit into the StD theme in any meaning. Beside that you have only a one trick pony at best.
All this is not solvable by point changes. Even 10 Warriors for 20 points wouldn't make them usable in any way except cluttering the board
I'd love to see a new book with better warscrolls.
As a synergy buff army I'd love to see the whole 'oath' thing taken further. Like say, a unit declares an oath to destroy a unit it's fighting, you get +1 to hit and wound and an extra tend BUT for every model that survives at the end of the combat phase, you take a mortal wound.
They need something to make them more powerful, but also if you just flat increased the stats it wouldn't feel that thematic or interesting.
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Both the chariots keep going down in points each update.. at what point will they actually become viable?
I have a few, love the models and I really wish there was a competitive use for them. At best they seem like chaff screens the are well suited to dealing with other small chaff screens.
For the regular chariots this feels fine. Gorebeast chariots are meant to be heavy shock units that break lines.. they're slower than regular chariots and more expensive so they don't screen as well, and they're output really isn't much better. Statistically, d3 on a 2+ on the charge is slightly worse than a 5+ for each inch of charge rolled, the crew are they same and the gorebeast really isn't anything special.
I'm not sure regular chariots are worth it even with the new reduction but if that trend continues there's a break point where they become efficient chaff.
I don't think lowering cost really fixes gorebeast though. They really need a rules update, even bringing back single unit champions would help.
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I found it surprising how much faith he had in his characters being durable too.
I don't have the experience in the game to argue against him, it's encouraging to hear someone so passionate about Nighthaunt... He just seemed to have a very off meta idea about the units and the game. That said, with NHs terrible win stats I guess you'd have to go off meta if you want to discuss competitive lists.
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I generally really like AoS Coach and Sotek is clearly a passionate Nighthaunt player but I was scratching my head more than a few times watching that video.
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2 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:
Looks like a fun list!
Cheers, if I can make at least one Lumineth or Tzeentch player cry it'll all have been worth it.
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If it makes you feel any better, I've gone all in on Banshees. My list is below but it's still on the painting table to no games yet. I'll let you know how it goes though.
Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Reikenor's Condemned
- Grand Strategy: Predator's DomainLeaders
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (135)
Reikenor the Grimhailer (165)
- General
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215)
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
Knight of Shrouds (100)
- AlliesBattleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)Units
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (150)
- Reinforced x 1
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (150)
- Reinforced x 1
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (150)
- Reinforced x 1
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (150)
- Reinforced x 1
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (75)
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (75)
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (75)
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (75) -
Lore wise it would have been more cliche but way cooler if the dragons were near extinction from civil war. Different dragons being aligned with different grand alliances etc.
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As a business model GW would be fools to lock these models to only stormcast.
I suspect they'll be like Gotrek. Fluff wise they can have more connections with stormcast just like Gotrek has more connections to Dwarden.
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I'd be interested to see how a range of draconic people are made district from Sepharon if it's a faction and not two hero monsters that can go in any Order list.
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I'm thinking about putting Archaon in his own Host subfaction and bringing Be'lakor too.
Two of their rules seem to interact really nicely: Archaon knows who has next turn and Be'lakor can shut down a model until your next hero phase. The mindgames + added reliability of combining these two rules seems very powerful. KNOWING you're going to shut down a Negash or some other big threat for two whole turns let's you move both of them around very aggressively.. of buff and watch the opponent mess their own turn up.-
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I agree with Ragest. The utility of Mystic Shield is really good. It stacks ontop of all out defense and can also be used on a different unit. If use could use all out defense more than once a turn the spell would 'only' be saving command points, but given its only available for one unit in one phase, the access to it a second time is golden.
AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Oh no! I saw it was a warcry band and I assumed they were thus another cult.
That's a shame, the charge would ha e made them really efficient objective grabbers.