Btimmy
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Posts posted by Btimmy
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Endless spells for NH are a big no go. Would recommend converting them into something else if you ended up with them somehow. The hourglass one could be potentially a Cogs proxy for example with a little work.
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On 4/28/2021 at 3:20 AM, Ulfast said:
Thanks, this sounds very intersting both of your views. I actually like the models and it´s intersting to play an "elite" force of death as they usually are more of a horde army in most settings. It also sounds that you can do diffrent tactics, all from cavalery charge, wall of undead soldiers, medium monster army and shooting. So thats a fun mix.
Unfortunately this isn't really true. I mean it is technically true in the sense that if you wanted to you could run an all deathrider army, or go heavy stalkers with minimum units of guard just to fill your batteline, but are those builds good?
No, no they are not.
OBR currently has probably the least variety in list building of just about any army (other than perhaps SoB) in the game due to its reliance on guard and crawlers. If you want to play a strong competitive list of OBR, 99% of the time you are bringing Mortis Praetorian Katakros + two catapults which is already 900/2000 with no batteline, no spellcasting, and no other heros.
There are some meme builds that have found their way to the top table by dodging the good armies and bad matchups (looking at you Stalliarch Lords), but for the overwhelming majority, OBR's tactics and army composition is fairly stagnant at the moment. -
58 minutes ago, Landohammer said:
Hey guys, maybe I'm late to the party on this but just wanted to put in my two cents worth regarding our updates in Belakor:
Subfactions: These seems super specific to buffing just a few units and are honestly a bit weird compared to other armies subs. I know getting locked out of ruler of the spirit hosts hurts but I find the buffs to chainrasps and hexwraiths to be pretty solid. Most competitive lists bring a lot of rasps so I think this is overall a net gain.
I am really eyeballing Hexwraiths again. Emerald Host Hexwraiths in a DG battallion with a Vampire Lord/Mounted KoS buff is 10 attacks per model. That is pretty spicy. Imagine hitting wave of terror and rolling ~200 attacks with a 260pt unit lololol.
Dreadscythes - I was really excited about the buffs to this unit as they are one of my favorite units in our book, but a 4pt per model cost increase is INSANE. I actually prefer them under the old rules since they were at least spammable at 13-14pts per model. This places them as direct competitors to Bladegeists, and they just don't hold up. Note that dreadscythes are now actually more expensive per model than Myrmourn. Can't help but wonder if this was mistake and that they referenced their old pre-FAQ costs when factoring in the price hike.
Cruciator - An interesting character. Seems a bit expensive for what he does but 5+ FNPs can be borderline abusive on the right units. A unit of 40 chain rasps (with the new sub buffs) supported by this guy could be an extremely effective unit.
Verdict: I think this was a poor update, but some very specific lists did get moderately better. But the buffs are fragile since they essentially rely on Vampire Lords and Dolorous Guard remaining available. As others have said, both are likely to go away or change significantly in the next few months.
Only one of the subfactions mandates a command trait, you can still take rotsh in rieks subfaction. I think it is the better of the two, as you can still just buy the dolorous guard ability for now.
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2 hours ago, Nasrod said:
Cute but doesn't work. The Olynder battalion specifically states she MUST be the general of the army if using the battalion.
This is not true? The new battalion allows her to count as a general, but does not require her to be your general. I cannot locate the leaked page where I read that, but Bell of Lost souls explicitly states that in their coverage of it here: https://www.goonhammer.com/broken-realms-belakor-part-6-nighthaunts/
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3 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:
Then the best thing we can do is write the FAQ team (AoSFAQ@gwplc.com) and ask for clarification. They currently have a 4-week FAQ cycle, so we will have some time to think on it.
This is true and I hope they address it!
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I've said everything I have to say on the subject, there is no rule that establishes some sort of existing rule modification clause that you are applying. The warscroll explicitly says the deathless spirit ability is modified to a 5+ on WOUNDS. It does not apply to mortal wounds. You can try to argue otherwise but you are strictly incorrect. I wish you luck arguing your case in whatever tournament setting you find yourself in, but playing it the way you are suggesting is wrong by the rules.
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9 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:
This isn't even the same argument... Godbone Armor is it's own thing. It doesn't overwrite or alter any standing rule for OBR. Godbone and Deathless Warriors can both exist together.
This is the base ability, as written in the battletome. Nothing about it suggests that it should also negate mortals. It's a flat -1 normal wound per phase the unit takes damage. No roll, no special requirements. Flat damage reduction.
All the other places you could review this artefact, like Goonhammer, SpikeyBits, BellofLostSouls, etc. all reviewed it and weighed in on it being just a wound-negator, and that it's pretty damn powerful as it is.
It's never been FAQed to include mortals, or otherwise rewritten to say anything different, because it does exactly what it is intended to do.
The hero that has it follows the following sting of events: Hero is allocated a normal wound. Hero's Godbone negates it. Hero is allocated another normal wound. Deathless Warriors has a chance to negate it on a 6+. Next phase, hero is allocated a mortal wound. Deathless Warriors has a chance to negate it on a 6+.
God bone is an example that if it isn't explicitly called out as a mortal wound, it doesn't negate mortal wounds. The ability modifies deathless spirit to a 5+ on WOUNDS, if it did both it would say WOUND or MORTAL WOUND. Again you can argue all you like, but unfortunately you are incorrect on this front. Hopefully it gets changed, but as it stands the new hero only buffs deathless to a 5+ for normal wounds. The talk of modifying an existing ability is red herring, there is no established rule that changes the way things are interpreted just because they interact or modify an existing rule.
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4 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:
I don't think that's the case. Otherwise they'd rename the ability. There's precedence for this in Shroudguard:
Frenzied Fervour replaces Deathless Spirits, and so they have to spell it out and indicate all aspects of it. This is key to understand, because the KoS or Reikenor that's leading a Shroudguard doesn't benefit from Frenzied, he only gets Deathless. He doesn't lose Deathless just because the rule Frenzied doesn't say he keeps it.
Deathless is Deathless. Deathless includes mortal wounds. If this ability doesn't include mortal wounds it's not Deathless, and would have it's own name.
In what you quoted they explicitly said WOUNDS or MORTAL WOUNDS. "On a 5+ the WOUND or MORTAL WOUND is negated." This is not the case with the new hero. You can argue otherwise but by RAW and in all tournament settings that is the way it will be and is interpreted and enforced because that is the correct way. Just an FYI.
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45 minutes ago, lare2 said:
I also fully expect this to be faqed to include mortal as I'm fairly certain that's RAI.
You might think this, but as I referenced above, OBR has an artifact that works this way and it has been left as is for over a year now.
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8 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:
I assume you mean the wound he deals with Phantasmal Torture? Yeah, it's standard, not mortal, but comes at rend -2. At +3/+3 any buffs to help that will almost ensure it, such as a Spirit Torment allowing RR1s and/or a GoS's +1 to Wound.
What?
Where you guys getting this?
The rule, straight from a freshly downloaded KC from Games Workshop reads:
Deathless Spirits is:
Since KC's ability directly references Deathless Spirits, and is not replacing it, it simply lowers the threshold of a successful negation from a 6+ to 5+.
Wounds are not mortal wounds. As written, the new heros ability modifies deathless spirits ability to negate WOUNDS, not MORTAL WOUNDS. They must be explicitly called out as mortals in order for them to receive the 5+. For this same reason the God bone armor for petrifix elite subfaction of OBR also only applies to normal wounds, not mortal wounds.
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14 minutes ago, Noma said:
I think between the two new subfactions I'm leaning more toward Reikenor's Condemned from a competitive standpoint, with some back up battalion support I think we could see some effective play from Nighthaunt now.
List:
Allegiance/Subfaction: Reikenor’s Condemned
Leaders:
Reikenor the Grimhailer (160)
-Acolyte of the Grimhailer: Allegiance Ability -General
-Lore of the Underworlds: Reaping Scythe
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)
-General
-Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Guardian of Souls (130)
-Artefact: Corpse Candle
-Lore of the Underworld: Shademist
Spirit Torment (120)
Krulghast Cruciator (120)
-Artefact: Midnight Tome – Spectral Tether OR Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Battleline:
40x Chainrasp Horde (280)
10x Hexwraiths (260)
5x Hexwraiths (130)
Units:
10x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2x Chainghasts (70)
Behemoths:
Black Coach (220)
Battalions:
Dolorous Guard (120)
1990/2000
126 Wounds
This is a list I would consider taking under this allegiance, good amount of boost to magic with Reikenor's corpse candle, especially effective on the Guardian of souls for a potential +3 to cast on Spectral lure when you really need to get it off potentially bringing back 2D6 worth of Chainrasp horde in nutty. This list is focusing on survival with additional healing coming from Olynder, Black coach, and spirit torment. Dolorous guard allows you to protect both your generals by passing off wounds to your Hexwraiths on a 2+ as well making those shooty armies have to work hard to take down your key pieces. Another potential strength of this list is having two generals which can directly effect some objective based scenarios as well.
New hero is a waste of points IMO and has no place in a competitive list. The 5+ only applies to normal, not mortal wounds, he isn't a caster, and you need to be within 12inches to even use the buff. For only a few more points you can get a vampire lord on foot, or even another spirit torment would be better.
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36 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:
so until GW says otherwise the Dolorous Guard battalion is still a thing, right?
Correct! And while I hope the battalions whose rules have been baked into these two subfactions still stick around, especially DG, it does seem unlikely. The loss of DG as a flexible battalion is going to be a big blow.
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5 hours ago, zombiepiratexxx said:
Trying to finally make a decision about whether to play DoK or FEC, this is more than likely going to be playing against Nurgle or OBR predominantly. We're not competitive players but I want an army that's fun to play and doesn't stomp or get stomped. Both the DoK and FEC seem like fast armies that are fragile and that fits with me nicely.
This is probably the wrong thread to be putting forth this particular opinion, but DoK is considered to be the "best" book in terms of balance and power level at the moment. Meaning that the DoK book allows a DoK player to play essentially any supported style or models, and they are pretty good while doing it. By contrast, FEC is mostly relegated to Alpha strikes and summoning, so there is substantially less flexibility in list building, and arguably power level as well. There is no doubt that FEC can be fun to play, and is much cheaper to acquire though!
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4 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:
Woah, woah, woah, guys.
Nothing will change the way Nighthaunt plays until a new Battletome happens. They can't rewrite an entire faction with a subsection of a narrative book. That would be way way worse than what we got.
What this is is some extra toys for us to use until either an updated Battletome, or an AoS 3.0 Battletome, gets released. Until then, we can just as easily assume that every model we have right now will either be exactly be the same or completely re-written in the new book, and either way be both right or wrong at the same time.
Anyway, as far as the Krulghast Cruciator goes, they pretty plainly called him a "support hero," which I am taking to mean he is best paired with enough hero. I'm envisioning something like him and a Spirit Torment together with a maxed unit of Bladegeists. 120+120+320=560 points. You'd get a full unit buffed by the Spirit Torment to reroll misses, a 5++ save that also applies to the Spirit Tormen so it's not so easy to snipe him, and the ST's ability to restore models on the battleshock phase.
Speaking plainly, the Krulghast's ability is not limited to "summonable," so even the heroes within 12" of him get the 5+ save. This makes it much more balanced in terms of risk/reward to push him, another hero, and a unit of your choice forward on the board and be aggressive.
9 Spirit Hosts, the ST and the KC, 600 points, and the murderball now can survive more wounds on a 5++ and be even more of a "must kill" threat.
This assumes that you are able to get the new hero in range of and wound an enemy while maintaining this sort of deathball formation. I'm pretty meh on the new hero, not a caster, extremely conditional buff that is pretty tight range wise, and competes for a hero slot with other, imo better heros. Just my opinion but unless this guy was like 40-50 points i wouldn't run him. As I stated above though, the free stuff from the subfactions is pretty nice, Reiks especially with the dolorous guard, assuming those battalions don't get nixed for the sake of duplicity. Furthermore, as written the new heros 5+ only applies to normal, NOT MORTAL wounds, but that is potentially just an oversight.
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7 minutes ago, lare2 said:
I can no longer see people's names... anyone else see this new update?
Its the new mobile version. I had to switch to desktop mode on my phone to "fix" it.
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3 minutes ago, Benlisted said:
I've come up with a potentially decent build for reik's lot...
GoS general w/ rotsh, new relic and spectral tether
Reikenor w/ soul cage
Torment w/ pendant of fell wind
Torment w/ midnight tome & shademist
Flying horror vamp lord
40 rasps
40 rasps
10 hexwraiths
10 hexwraiths
Dolorous Guard
Chainguard
1990
So, for recursion you have an Uber GoS general with +3 to cast and healing 3d6 on rasps when he does. 2 torments, rotsh, and invocation. And in a pinch can heal heroes with tether.
Both the GoS and reik have ablative wounds from the hexes so shouldn't be going down, and both can increase rasp movement or teleport units (I suspect GoS holds the line while reik goes off somewhere with a hex unit, and can pull a rasp unit into an opportune place).
You have enough casting for all our decent spells and mystic shield, movement buff from the pendant, GoS to buff one unit and torments to cover both rasps. And the VL can dump cp to buff rasps damage even further.
This list looks solid, though I'm not sold on the chain guard nor the units of 10 for the hexwraiths. I'd probably try to get lady O in there somewhere and maybe a different battalion personally, as well as trying to find room to buy another command point. I'd also probably try to avoid the vampire lord and instead do a knight on steed just to avoid having to bring an ally, but thats just my preferences.
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Reik's thing is just straight gas. A huge bonus to cast at the cost of one wound (assuming you don't negate it accidently) is amazing in an army that has very little bonuses to cast. Plus, it buffs our best battleline unit for free, and gives an amazing command ability that doubles the movement of those battleline? 12inch flying chaff that is immune to rend and gets slappier for free thanks to the rerolls is very nice. Also bonus to bring them back, can still take the best command trait on the other not reik general, and two generals allows for some nice use of the cp teleport anything to your general ability. If anything, NH just needs some ways to generate additional cp and the army would feel really good.
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1 hour ago, Evil Bob said:
Just a word of caution the bat swarm goes on 25s and the rat swarm 32s. Neither shows up in the AoS cross-over warscroll book. To be honest I’m feeling a little kick to the gut here.
This was confirmed weeks before release via one of the many CC posts on FB by the official AoS page. No AoS warscroll for bats or rats. You can use them as proxies or whatever of course.
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23 minutes ago, Kaizennus said:
Oh, yes that’s what I meant, I had heard you could build the hero as a vampire instead of Arkhan.
I realize this is going beyond the scope of the thread topic, but are there any particularly good resources for magnetization?
If I were to go with one model however, is there any particular favorite for which hero to choose? I realize though that it’s hard to judge without knowing more about the new army book.
Thank you for your response though~
I'm sure someone out there has put together a guide for magnetizing the mortarch's, probably just a quick google search away. Honestly its probably one of the easiest models to magnetize. I just picked the head and armor for the big mount I liked the most, and then magnetized the bottom of each mortarch's chair to where it is supposed to sit on the mount.
As for which model, it's impossible to say at the moment. Both Nef and Mannfred aren't great in terms of competitive play at the moment, both being too fragile with their 4+ saves and only 11 wounds. Arkhan is probably seeing the most play, but only in OBR. There is a very good chance that both Nef and Mannfred get some sort of warscroll update when the new book hits, but there is no concrete information as to what will change so it's impossible to really suggest one over the other in terms of which will be stronger going forward. Currently, it's *probably* Nef, as her command ability is stackable, but the loss of the aetherquartz brooch made this strategy much less viable, and death doesn't have a great way to farm command points. Mannfred is in a weird switch hitter position that wants him to get into melee, but again he is pretty fragile once he is in there. You certainly can use him as a buff piece with his command ability to support larger hard hitting units, but then you might be "wasting" his melee profiles and it is probably not worth the point investment.-
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2 hours ago, Kaizennus said:
Hey all,
Former fantasy player (roughly 16 years ago) looking to get back into it with AoS. I’ve been thinking to roll with the upcoming Soulblight since I used to love the Vampire Counts, but never collected them personally.
I know we’re likely a ways off from the release, but how “risky” would it be to start off my model collection with the Nagash starter set and building Arkhan as one of the vampires? From what I’ve seen in this thread it looks likely that most of the models will probably transition over right?
Is there a better way to start up the army while I wait?
You would be better off building Nef or Mannfred, as Arkhan isn't actually a vampire. For this reason, it is uncertain that he will be part of the new vampire battle tome at all. Neferata and Mannfred are almost certainly included though. If you were looking to start an army and didn't want to wait for any of the new sculpts, then skeletons, black knights, zombies, and wight kings have all been confirmed to be part of the new army. I would recommend getting the start collecting skeleton horde and magnetizing the mortarch kit that comes with it, so you can run Arkhan/Nef/Mannfred all from one model.
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10 minutes ago, Honk said:
Yes, blood tokens for extra funky skillz sounds great... similar to the OBR points, but only for the vamps. And if you don’t have any, your vamp gets extra edgy...
but the line between bonkers broken and hamstrung is thin and GDubs does not have a record of well balanced rules.
Not keen on insignificance, but not keen on Soulblight Cheeselords, either.
Its also pretty tedious and uninteresting in my opinion if every new faction has aethergold, or aetherquartz, or warpstone like abilities all of a sudden. One time borrowed power is not unique.
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4 minutes ago, Sception said:
My guess is still preorder in late october, release in november. I don't think we'll see them until after belakor, kragnos, a bunch of 40k stuff, and maybe 3rd edition aos. Would be happy to be wrong, though.
OBR was also released around that time, so that would make roughly 2 years since the last death armies release. I'm certainly hoping for a sooner release though.
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Does anyone know if the battalion boxes being released with BR: Teclis are going to be a limited time thing? Or are they more like start collectings going forward?
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Yeah the models can certainly be used as proxies and such, but no official SBGL warscroll for them, at least not in cursed city anyway.
AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion
in Death
Posted
Mega's are actually pretty meh in close combat if you look at their warscrolls, so if you are running monsters getting two into combat with one giant is probably a fight you will win, especially if you are dumping points on FF.