[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Thanks for the advice, but I have to correct you about the Sword of Judgement: it deals 1d66 mortal wounds on a 6+, by statistics (and a lot of simulated dice rolls on my desk ) I deal 9 MWs on average when all conditions are met.  These being: Having a Spirit Host within 6" of the target (easy), casting Olynder's spell on the target (already more unsure), then burning 2 CPs to give +2 with the KoS. In total I get 3 Attacks which deals 1d6 MWs on a 2+, and I reroll 1s to Hit if I managed to sneak my Spirit Torment into the mix. 

If I manage a 10" charge I'll deal the same on 4+ instead of 2+ because I won't have the KoS' abilities in the Charge phase but with a little luck you can deal 6-9 MWs too, going  to a total of 15-18 MWs on a 10+ charge. 

There's a lot of "ifs" I agree, and I love it, feels like having a successful plan thought ages ago and there's few things in the game that give me more joy than a plan unfolding  

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

So I thought about another list. This one is named Mortal Kombat in fit of inspiration, as the aim of it is to drown the opponent in mortal wounds.

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Knight of Shrouds (100)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Lord Executioner (80)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Spirit Torment (120)
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Battalions
Execution Horde (100)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
 

I load up on Spirit Hosts to have some durability and easily fit them in these dreadful 12" aura abilities. They're also here because of the battalion and to saturate in MWs.

I'm wondering if the Banshees are worthwhile here, I do love their damage potential but they need to unbind spells for that, and so need to be close, and so ideally in reserves, but my reserves will be crowded already. I believe they'd be better in a list with a KoSoES or a Vampire Lord to easily give them +1A, as it is they're pretty expensive for 12W.

The Bladegheists are here for those guys which won't care about my MWs: cheap hordes. They're fantastic and I can't see myself playing without them as I didn't try the Steroid Harridans yet.

Thoughts on this one ? I have better durability here than in ly previous list as everyone has a 4++ but the number of bodies is light. The point of the list is obviously to remedy this problem by reducing my opponent army's numbers quite fast, but I don't know how this'll hold up IRL.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Only available in the UK and Spain though, sucks when you don't live in one of these countries.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Thanks for the feedback folks, I share the same worries about the lack of durability and think two Batallions is too costly in NH. I didn't know about the CP restriction, I figured Warscroll Builder would prevent it. I already have a KoS in the list though, I'll replace with something else. As for the Gryph-Feather charm, it's not possible because I must play Ulgu for the Headsman relic, otherwise the LE might as well plead for mercy in the first fight he'll face.

Anyway you're right, too many combos in the list. I'll write it again with one version with the LE and another with the Shroudguard. Not going to try it anytime soon in any case, I lack several models for now.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

So I wrote the following 2000 pts list following the Emperor Executioner from Sauriv, as well as a Shroudguard for sturdier Bladegheists:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Midnight Tome - Spirit Drain
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Lord Executioner (80)
- Artefact: Headsman's Judgement
Knight of Shrouds (100)
- Artefact: Balefire Blade

Battleline
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

Units
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

Battalions
Execution Horde (100)
Shroudguard (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 88

The list is VERY light on wounds, but relies essentially on a blitzkrieg deep-strike attack from multiple sources. I really need the CPs so the 4CP aren't too much. I have Reikenor casting Cogs T1 (or whenever I drop the bomb), and dispel it as soon as my charges are done with my Banshees to boost them up a notch.

The Spirit Hosts should survive quite well with Olynder + Dreadblade resurrecting them. The Executioner goes on Monster/Hero slaying duty and can reliably deal around 9 MWs/round as long as I debuff the target with Olynder + use 1 CP from the KoS, 2 if Olynder missed. If the target Hero tries to counterattack the Executioner he'll have -2 to Hit from the Batallion and Olynder's spell, and the 5+ FNP against MWs to boot. To help dealing with big models I gave the Midnight Tome with Spirit Drain to my Dreadblade as he can sneak up and use it on a 10+W unit to soften it up or finish it.

I gave the Balefire Blade to my KoS as I had one artifact left, it's this one or the Pendant for +3" move, hard to decide. Could be useful to have the pendant on the KoS if he starts with his Bladegheists around to give them 11" move.

Thoughts on it folks ?

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

I agree. It's just that I wish for more flavour in the battletome, when I see all the recent releases or when I'm playing against Fyreslayers their Warscrolls are just way more fun than ours. There's a lot of similar abilities between units, like Bladegheists and Stalkers both can retreat and charge and have a form of bonus when doing so, all the scythe units rerolling hits againsts big units and so forth. An ideally balanced battletome should make us chose between equally useful units, considering their uses in certain circonstances. Right now I don't see myself building a list around Stalkers.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

I don't know if that would save Stalkers, they hit like snails and don't have the durability of the rest of the codex. They're outperformed by Chainrasps damage-wise, and not very resilient neither. They need something that brings out the theme of the cursed trackers, like being able to advance and charge, rerolling wounds against wounded units, bonus against monsters, -2 Rend on a turn in which they charged or something. Maybe just +2" to their move could help. Right now they're just worse version of every unit in the book. Which is a shame since every NH player owns at least a dozen given they're in every box. I didn't even assemble mine yet because I understood early on how useless they are.

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

The Battleforce is here to make your dreams come true !

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

Spoiler

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds (100)
Spirit Torment (120)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 75

Wrote the following list to train for a small little 1000 pts tournament here in my Warhammer Store. Any opinions on this ? It's a simple attrition list, with the mobile Dreadblade bringing units backs and teleporting them where needed. The 3 missions will require good mobility so I figured the Hexwraiths and the teleportation trick will be really needed. Chainrasps occupy the center/block the mean stuff, Bladegheists kamikaze strike in waves, Hexwraiths go for backline units or harassing objectives, and they're summonable too.

I figure the hardest part for me still is to place the graves on the right spots, far enough from the enemies so that they're not blocked (Chainrasps will see to that too) but close enough for my summoned units to charge in the same phase. Hoping I won't see too many ranged army too, as the only protection my Dreadblade will get is Look Out Sir and scenery.

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

36 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

Pretty sure you can't stack two of KoS's +1 hit auras, even if from two Knights. A unit can only receive a buff with a unique name from one source at a time unless specifically noted.

But yes, Harridans hit hard and are great models. The only reason to choose Bladegheists over them, really, is the attack profile. In terms of Mathhammering it, # attacks > extra damage/MW on 6 = to hit > to wound, and I think people generally feel the more certain 3+/3+ profile, and the KoS/GoS ability to make those into 2+/2+ is worth the extra points. I'm in that boat, myself. Do that same math with +1 attacks, +1 hit, and +1 wound and you'll see why.  And then add in the reroll factor; Bladegeists get to reroll everything in the aura of a Chainghast even without a Spirit Torment on the board, where as the Harridans would need a Spirit Torment just to get reroll 1s. It's a difference of 40 points less to set this up with the Bladegheists.

Nothing prevents it that I know of, when a same unit can't receive the buff twice it's explicitly noted, like the KoSoES's one, which states it can't benefit from this command ability more than once per phase. 

As for the buffs, if both units, getting +2 to Hit from the KoS, receive the same buffs (reroll to Hit and +1 to Wound) they'll both cap at 2+ reroll 1s/2+ so the Harridans still beat the Gheists on the condition the Harridans get +2 to Hit, otherwise I agree, a Spirit Torment buffs a vanilla Bladegheist better than a vanilla Harridan. 

There's also the argument that they're a tad cheaper, capping at 280 pts for 20 against 320 pts for 20 Bladegheists, and the -1 to Hit which may or may not be into play, but when working it helps your lines' durability considerably.

For my own conclusion I prefer Bladegheists for their reliability without much support, but I'll certainly try Harridans one of these days with a list built around it, preferably in a Bravery debuffing list.

[Ossiarch Bonereapers, hideously overpowered?]

Yeah I'm going to wait next year for erratas/point updates before starting the army, it doesn't feel quite right as it is and I suspect they'll get balance suggestions from the community. It's as I suspected: probably very fun and challenging to play (in the sense that you have to position right and remember the 10 buffs you want to pass) but not for the opponent, which is a point where I'm too compassionate to let pass as I don't have fun when I see my opponent wondering why they bothered to play today.

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

I figured having smaller blobs helped with the summon back ability. I mean with big blocks you can still have a handful alive after a big scrap, whereas a smaller unit would've died outright, allowing you to summon it back right after instead of losing a turn sending the rest of the blob to their deaths (these revenants can't catch a rest). But maybe I'm underestimating the lethality of the 2000 pts scene too. If I faced this I'd try to leave the units almost dead to prevent resurrection.

As for the Bladegheist debate I was surprised too but it made me run proper Mathammer to take the 6s to Wound from the Harridans into account and the results are as following assuming I'm not too awful at maths and did the right method:

Spoiler

 

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,5*0,66 = 10,33*(7/6) = 12,05 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,66*0,66 = 13,33 D

Now we apply 1 CP to give them +1 to Hit from the list's KoS:

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,66*0,66 = 13,77*(7/6) = 16,07 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,83*0,66 = 16,66 D

Now we apply 2  CP to give them +2 to Hit from the list's KoS:

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,83*0,66 = 17,22*(7/6) = 20,09 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,83*0,66 = 16,66 D

 

So the Harridans are on par with the Bladegheists when given +1 to Hit, and plain better when given +2 to Hit. Now we can argue that Bladegheists require less investment in CP as they do just fine with a Chainghast/Spirit Torment to support them, but Harridans don't need to retreat/charge to keep their number of attacks (which is not really a problem for a Flying army but there might be issues when double turned) and can get -1 to be Hit when the attacker is under 7 Bravery, improving their resilience. So in the case of this list, which produces a lot of CP, burning 2 of them/turn to maximise their damage output seems perfectly viable.

I'm more curious about the Grimghasts as to me they just look like worst Bladegheists, is their 2" range really that important ? Never played them so honest question. I also understand that getting full rerolls to Hit just with an enemy unit of 5+ models is a boon when operating by themselves.

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

10 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

Sorry vampires isn't included in LoG

Ah can't we have them in Allies ? I must be confusing with NH, my bad. Then yes it's Mounted Wight King if we want to buff them and follow.

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

Can't Vampire Lords buff them too ? And they're a good fit for LoG too. But yeah it's a shame Wight Kings aren't more versatile, I'd love a Skeleton army. Guess it will be OBR for this but it's not the same feel as a badass resurrected king.

[Ossiarch Bonereapers, hideously overpowered?]

11 minutes ago, Emissary said:

They can use mercenaries unless the army includes Nagash or Arkhan.

Really ? I missed that then I stand corrected. 

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

What are you guys thoughts on Black Knights, be it in LoG or any other Legion ? Their damage on the charge is not too bad and they have mobility. Compared to Hexwraiths they're cheaper and hit harder, although not in MWs, but those are reliant on luck anyway. The -1 Ld banner fits the theme nicely too. 

I'm asking because I have 5 painted Hexwraiths and 5 mounted and I'm considering adding the Black Knight parts, as with their current warscroll I don't see myself playing 10 Hexwraiths anymore. 

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

15 hours ago, Keith said:

Hi all

I am looking for some thing different to play besides Night haunt.

So how does this look ?

It has a bit of fun with spells. I cant see any use for the other Legion of Grief spells  Hence they all have Dread Withering.

The 3 spells are a real disappointment , why couldn't they just make up 3 more spells

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Spell: Dread Withering

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)

Units
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)
1 x Corpse Cart (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126
 

I don't have much experience on LoG but as I see it having big units is lesss important in Legions as you can res them with the graves when destroyed, having more smaller units give you more board presence. Of course then you lose a few points because of max size discount so there's that to consider. Big units are also more liable to debuffs.

Concerning magic, Wail of Doom is not that bad for a frontline caster. You'll have 1 cast of Vanhel's, 1 cast of Spectral Lure, and then 1 cast of whichever fits best. I also feel like 2 Endless Spells may be too much but if that's what you want go wild with it.

[Ossiarch Bonereapers, hideously overpowered?]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

Would adding a 40 block of regular skeleton mercenaries have board presence? I am not even sure if mercenaries would reduce our command points since we techically have RD points instead?

They don't have access to mercenaries, neither allies, OBR are all by themselves.

[Ossiarch Bonereapers, hideously overpowered?]

In my opinion the Crawler would've been received better by the community if it did like 15 attacks at D1 instead of the 3A 5D. That way you don't have your hero relying on a single roll to see if he's alive or dead, and there's much more granularity involved. It also feels more like a siege engine than a tactical rocket launcher.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Yeah I'm planning on buying it too if finances allow it, it's a fantastic way to expand your army and if it's your first box, just expand from there

I absolutely LOVE Kurdoss' model, he really look like the king of spirits, and his lore is awesome too. His abilities on the table are questionable but I'll play him for the cool factor and maniacal laugh when I do steal a CP.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Yeah I just checked the GHB and nothing prevents it.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

I run in some occasions two Shroudguard battalions, one lead by a mounted KoS (2 units of 5 Bladegheists) and the other led by Reikenor (also with 2 units of 5 Bladegheists). The Kos-led one is there to deep strike, I found that one unit of Bladegheists at the time can work (the 5+ shrug from the battalion basically grants you one more turn with those small units alive if paired with a ST); the one led by Reikenor is there to run across the board and keep that squishy caster of ours safe enough.

I'm not entirely convinced it's worth paying for two Shroudguard battallions, but you do get 2 CPs and two artefacts on top of the (awesome) 5+. If only the latter would apply to the KoS or Reiky as well...

That's an interesting idea to go MSU. It multiplies your charge targets. At 1000 pts I run a squad of 10 DSing alongside my KoSoES and go for that 10+ charge even of it costs me a CP. With 5 guys you have less impact on the charge but at least there's got to be one of them who'll succeed. 220 pts of Batallions for so few models looks harsh though, but yeah, 2 CP and 2 Artefacts.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Oh just noticed the WoT works on UNMODIFIED 10+, so Cogs don't proc it easier, it still makes charging from DS far easier though. But the Emperor Executioner (he deserves this title with such lethality) will most likely fight once then. No matter I'm known for doing these 10+ charges anyway, I once rolled three of those in a single Charge phase haha !

Well congrats for the idea, it's still niche but there's always a Dragon or something that needs killing. And making this gorgeous model usable and lethal is a victory in itself. It's 360 + 80 + 100 pts too minimum so not cheap.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Yeah I see what you mean. I'll definitely give them a try because I can't go wrong with 9 of them as they might be better in their future battletome anyway. 

Sauriv's tactic about the Lord Executioner really talks to me, I've thrown dice a few times to simulate, and with +3 to Hit (really doable) and the Cogs, I see them DS, fighting once with WoT, and then again in the fight phase. The Lord Executioner dealt an average of 9-11 MW by phase, and with twice that I figure I can easily kill a Magmadroth on the charge. With the innate 5+++ against MW of the Lord I can even survive the lava skin passive (it stacks with the innate 6+++ right ?). 

So in short thank you for the idea Sauriv, I don't know if you developed this yourself but in any case I'm really enthusiastic about this and already wrote an experimental list with this Batallion and the Shroudguard. It looks fragile with around 93 wounds but should hit like a truck.

[AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion]

So as I understand it it's safer to play LoG as an endless pit of CPs than with the Bravery bombs ? I played my first LoG game at 1000 pts the other day and got completely wrecked, though it was against Hermgar (something along this word) 2x10 Berzerkers, 10 HG Berzerkers, Runedad on Magmadroth and Priest on foot.

When he announced me he ignored battleshock when entirely near an objective I was like "Ah-a" looking at my Banshee and my -6 Bravery shenanigans. Long story short I lost badly.

But it seems the tactic is more around MSU, Aetherquartz + Vassal and drown the opponent in waves. Cogs should be nice to add so that the summoned units can join the fight right off the grave. Looks way more reliable than Bravery bombing. Although I'm not sure if LoG is better or worse at 1000 pts level, but I'm planning to expand anyway.

Also quick question, I've heard of players playing Legions and still having Waves of Terror, is this some Allies ability or something else ? Or just illegal ? 

Thanks for reading, this thread (and forum) is a goldmine of information for me !