Death1942
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The new Slaanesh stuff is basically the same deal that Tzeentch got a few years back with the acolytes. I would expect Nurgle might be next off the rank in terms of getting the mortal side fleshed out more (plus a new book). Khorne is already pretty solid on that front.
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I figured as much, it is a real shame the mortal battalion are so restrictive compared to the daemon ones. I feel they missed a trick there.
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Had my first two games with the beasts last week. We absolutely melt away quickly but I can see the potential. Bestigors did so well but my bullgors did almost nothing aside from killing Sigvald, they kept getting charged because my screening wasn't ideal.
Do people typically go first or second when running the beasts? I kept taking first turn to jump onto objectives to score points but I am starting to think maybe going second is better for the potential double turn. -
How is the mortal side of Tzeentch looking these days? I know the book heavily favours the daemons but Kairic Acolytes seem solid and are great models. I am curious to see non Archaon versions if possible, I know he is great already.
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Question about Ungor set up/List structure. Do you take two units of raiders for the initial extra screen distance and deploy on the front of your line to extend your wall of chaff a bit? Do you still take regular Ungors for sacrificing/sitting on objectives with the shields for extra saves? If you run 30 more Ungor raiders that aren't supposed to screen do you split them up into smaller units to split enemy attacks or do you group it up into a big blob? (Might be different answer if Darkwalkers).
For reference my current lists is looking like 30 Raiders and 20 Regular Ungors. -
Finally assembling by beasts. Now I want flexibility to run 10 mans as well as big blocks of ungors but I really don't want to assemble and paint 8 standard bearers. How do people normally go with wysiwyg when swapping between the unit sizes?
Also I absolutely do not want to assemble the musician or standard bearer on my bullgors (the axes look way better). How do people represent those things on these models? Do you glue the drums and standard to the back of one of the bullgors? -
So the new Seraphon terrain piece impacts our terrain too. Might have to either use a beefier hero for sacrifices or maybe take 20 ungor instead of 10 to generate those points.
Also has anyone converted chariots from the chaos chariot kit? Tempted to do it but not sure if simple head swaps and maybe chucking a gor on the back would look good or if you need to mix our chariot kit with it.
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On 2/25/2020 at 9:24 PM, Maddpainting said:
So...... I have a test list just for doing this right now, i even converted 4 chariots to play them in this. WTF great minds think alike!
I wanted to try a completely different type of list than i normally play, instead of MSU units its large units and use DDing + Agendas to make units super good.
My list is
Shaggoth
Bray-Shaman
Bray-Shaman
Tzaangor Shaman
Bestigors x30
Tzaangors x10
Tzaangors x10
Centigors x5
Centigors x5
Gors x10
Gors x10
Chariots x4
Wildfire Taurus
Battalion
Edit: Took out the Ungors, added Gors, and split the Tzaangors, i felt that is better after watching his video.
Edit: He is using DO's but he can't take them as a Battleline as he is playing in DoT so he took Gors, gors are a cool idea in this i didn't even think about it so i might change my list now. I don't like DO as Centigors are better for the points for what i want (for wounds and speed) he is losing out of 5 wounds compare and lots of speed. I can understand why he likes DO, it gives him the option for more damage, for me my Centigors are 100% going to die by turn 2 lol. Personally i'm really wanted to take Tzaangors so i don't have more room, i wish i could take 10 more centigors tho.My issue with big units is always that it helps your opponent focus fire and also gives them the most bang for their buck for mortal wounds abilities. I feel like turn 1 those Bestigors are going to get shredded by their entire army and then the rest of the force can be cleaned up fairly easily. I could be wrong and I honestly don't know how well Tzeentch changes the effectiveness of our units. I also personally think taking a gaunt summoner is a must in a tzeentch list as getting those free pink horrors is just too good to pass up and can really cause your opponent havoc.
Can you fit any Enlightened on disc in the list? I think a 6-9 man blob + 30 Bestigors is a disgusting set of hammers and we can fill the rest of the army with chaff to fill the anvil role nicely. I agree on the DO, they are really disappointing for their points -
A cool beasts tzeentch army created by a very good Australian player. Also shout out to the Doom and Darkness youtube channel as he loves beasts and has some great battle reports up.
I quite like the army but I think I would look to include some gaunt summoners to bring in some horrors easily. Quite a strong list regardless. -
I don't think we need to go 1 drop just to match Tzeentch. The changehost list got a pretty big nerf in terms of their alpha strike (basically can't screen the flamers now). I think with good placement of Ungors and their pre-game move we can easily screen out the flamers so they can't reach our critical heroes or units (and even then with MSU and summoning we can afford to lose a unit or two and summon back).
In my meta (Australia) I am finding either you go 1 drop or you shift up to 4 or 5 and if not you are a "I don't care" and go 6+ drops. With that in mind I think if the situation calls for it we can comfortably sit at 2-3 drops and still be fine. -
1 hour ago, decker_cky said:
I'm interested in hearing more about the list as well, particularly regarding the value he sees from taking grashrak, since grashrak over another shaman increases that from a one drop to a 3 drop list.
3 drop still beats out a good chunk of lists. I can only think of a handful of 1 drop armies around atm (that are decent) and most lists I see that are low drop start at 3 or 4 depending on the faction.
I am also interested to see if he is worth taking in regards to increasing the drops. I suspect most people are running him as a new toy to see how things go and we will see if he stays in lists in the long run or starts to drop off. -
1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:
Yeah i saw that, its how i've been playing for the most part, 70+ raiders, 50+ bestigors, a couple ungors, BL+3 Shamans, battalion.
I want to run a variant of it with 6 bullgor and 30 bestigor instead of 50. Taking the sphynx as well and dropping 1 of the big blobs of raiders and 1 of the shamans.
How have you found the list? It looks to be probably our most competitive mono beasts list.
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This list went 4-1 at a tournament over the weekend in Australia. His only loss was on the top table at the very end so I think he ended up 6th overall. I really like the list and I will see if I can dig up the post tournament write up/podcast for the details when it comes out.
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5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
I was thinking the cogs could be cast turn 1 out of unbind range, net some good turn one charges and let the second wave hit in choice spots. But true we Beasts have weak casting. I’d love to fit a Shaggoth in there somehow. And to have the old metal model.
I’ll definitely give the bigger Bullgor units a try and chop up the Gors.
my summoning pool is pretty dry right now. Guess I should get some stuff for each tier? Ungors for the 3 pts, I could omit chariots from the army list and summon them. Cockatrice and jabberslythe are within my kitbashing reach. Centigors would be good.
Also I have the old giant skull base from the magewrath throne; would that be big enough for a cool custom herdstone? I would put a Morgur statue or fire pyre up top.
The herdstone idea sounds fine, I think earlier in the thread someone mentioned roughly the "base size" of a herdstone so if it fits that then go wild.
I think you definitely want to aim for more low end summoning as a rule. Definitely doesn't hurt to have a cockatrice or jabber up your sleeve but most likely you won't need it in many games. -
It would be different sprues. They do everything in CAD these days so converting it to a pose able sprue (bigger sprue) wouldn't be too difficult. It is more the fact that they would need to recall all the old warrior boxes, print new boxes (with the art on them), make enough sprues to get the product out to all the stores for an initial wave and then have enough in production to keep up with demand. All the while competing with factory time for fresh kits for other factions (plus 40k)
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I was sure they would have pumped out the kits for this everchosen book but I still have no doubt that somewhere they are boxing up the new warriors into pose able kits and to sell individually. They just released all those old limited to a box characters so I would hold out hope for the warriors just don't expect it in the short term.
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1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:
I've got a game coming up next Tuesday vs Tzeentch. I think he's gonna use the Summoner's Guild, which I think is mortal Arcanites and their ilk. I'm gonna use this:
Darkwalkers:
Great Bray Shaman
Doombull (general, Darkwalkers Nomad trait, Ghyrstrike from Ghyran)
Doombull (desolate shard)
3x3 Bullgors w Great Axes
3x3 Bullgors w Axes and Shields
20 Bestigors (cuz I only have 20)
30 Gors (shields and weapons)
2x1 Tuskgor Chariots
Brass Despoilers
Ravening Direflock
Chronomantic Cogs
My thoughts are with what I have, I can only fit 8 units into that one chunk of the Brass Despoilers, and I love my old Bullgors who need the hit rerolls, so thinking I should keep them smallish units to get more in range of that aura bonus. The Gors and Bestigors can either outflank or run up, and Bullgors could outflank as needed.
I think the Direflock spell is pretty neat; seems like a good way to screen against enemy charges, and also debuff bravery if applicable. And it's a screen that's easily redeployed. Cogs seems solid for Bullgors; hopefully I can get it off vs a Tzeentch army.
But maybe for my group of Beasts I don't even need to go Darkwalkers? Since the Brayherds can Outflank anyways? That would free up the Doombull general for a different trait and relic. Though I'd lose that teleport ability, which might be very useful.
I'll take notes and post a report. Gonna stick with pure Beasts for a while and practice like I did with my Azgorh army. Only way to git gud!
I would strongly consider combining 2 of the Axe Bullgors and 2 of the shield Bullgor units into a single 6x unit. More frontage and a better target for buffs and it opens up 2 slots in the battalion for you to split the Gors into 10 man blocks. I think with 3x10 Gor units you can now screen the bulls much better and gives you more flexibility to reach around the board. I have personally never rated the Direflock but can't really see where you could use the 30 points. You only have 1 spellcaster in your army so I think taking 2 endless spells is a bit too many points sunk into there. I would try and grab a second shaman (maybe the new warcry one?) or drop one or both of the spells. Most armies you come across are probably going to be able to completely shut down your magic without much effort.
Do you have ungors to summon onto the board? I think your summoning pool needs to be lots of cheap big units to cover objectives. -
17 hours ago, Hebroseph said:
I recently purchased a large lot of Tzeentch and it came with a bunch of tzaangor enlighted and skyfires. I'm already running a tzeentch list so im not really interested in running them IN tzeentch. What is your best tzaangor heavy BoC list?
Can't really go wrong with 2x6 Enlightened on discs as your hammers and then toss in a bunch of cheap chaff to hold objectives. Basically the enlightened and then spam ungors to screen. You need a shaman on disc to buff the Enlightened to get the most out of them and I would almost always aim to take at least 1 bray shaman to buff your other units and sit near the herdstone.
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50 minutes ago, TheR00zle said:
Sorry to derail the thread but I have a problem I hope you all could help with: what models should I use to convert kharadron overlords into chaos dwarves without going for Forgeworld prices?
I would look more towards whatever they call dwarves these days. Firedrakes could be Fireglaives and Ironbreakers could be Ironsworn, you would need to tweak the beards (maybe with greenstuff) to get the babylonian look and maybe add some chaos bits to make them seem more sinister. I think just a copper and red paint scheme will go a long way to making them look like chaos dwarves.
I would also strongly consider looking at the Mantic abyssal dwarf line as it is basically a complete recreation of the 8th ed chaos dwarf army but with less impressive models. -
I honestly think you could give almost everything in the army at least +1 to hit and it would still be fairly balanced. Treat them as an elite dwarf army where the trade off is slow movement and average bravery.
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Completely fair point about the marauders they're hideous.
They will absolutely be doing a possible kit of the warriors and knights, probably in a few months time. As for other kits we don't really know much except for things roughly a month or two away.
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2 hours ago, PiotrW said:
Sorry if I'm creating too many threads... I really hope it's okay.
Anyway - thanks for the answers, Pariah
Hmmm... I've looked at the newest StD's Start Collecting! set a bit closer. Is it true that the set features female heads? Female Chaos Warriors could be interesting...
Still: hmmmm. I admit I'm not very fond of aesthetics of this set: plate-armoured Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights with lances etc. For some reason, this is not what I'm picturing when I think of Chaos. Especially not knights with lances, even if clad in scary armour. If I was to field Chaos-aligned riders, I'd prefer to field the Varanguard...
What I might be interesting in doing is an army with the Darkoath barbarians, maybe with some of the Warcry folk - and some cool monsters big monsters. Not sure how to create such an army without having to use the StD's "ironclads" (Warriors / Knights / Chariots) that are also this faction's Battleline units..?
Have a look at marauder horsemen they might fit the style you want. There are loads of websites for head swaps if you want different heads for your army.
Marauders are arguably the best battleline unit STD has so you can easily field a whole army without the plate wearing guys.
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FYI for future reference there are sub topics dedicated to each faction so you should use those for posts like this.
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31 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:
Fomoroid Crusher vs CygorCan't be in battalions for us
Can't get re-rolls to to hit as easily as Cygor, and on average does less damage in shooting (Cygor shooting is better if you aim for wizards or in Khorne for re-rolls)
Shooting is 6" shorter
4 less wounds
No unbind spells
2" less movement
Can't Ambush like Cygor
Melee is same, but weaker vs Wizards (Cygor average vs 5+ no/rr 2.22, Crusher 2.37)
Both "can" deal MW's for some reason, Crusher is on the charge roll X dice and each 6 is 1 MW, a average charge roll will give 1 MW, Cygor does 1 MW for each Denial, with average rolls a 42% chance each time.
So yeah maybe it is 40pts cheaper, but honestly those 40pts are worth it for us to keep the Cygor IMO.And I wouldn't even run the Cygor in the first place...
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Hmmm... I've looked at the newest StD's Start Collecting! set a bit closer. Is it true that the set features female heads? Female Chaos Warriors could be interesting...
AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Pretty sure most of the big daemons and characters seem to be between 280-380 points so I don't see why he wouldn't still fit in the sub 400 block.