Jump to content

umpac

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    204

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by umpac

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Golub87 said:

    What is everyone's opinion on that combination? Is 6 Fiends enough or should I aim for 9? Shardspeaker and Geminids look good in combination with them as well.

    9 is a little all in. Fiends with -2/-2 is terrifying in melee but they are paper vs shooting and magic. Depends on whether you want an all comers list or not. 

     

    As for the rest of the points a keeper for piling in twice is never wrong. For battleline you could add blissbarbs for some DP generation and decent objective campers or daemonettes if you're tight on points. Maybe some slickblades if you got points left, they're great. 

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    41 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

    When you look at all the battalions their costs are high with all the minimum units needed. Nobles is fairly high as well at 450 for 3x5 Painbringers at the lowest. I dont see the characters as a tax since youll need them anyway

    Yeah they new ones are all expensive. I don't see how you would "need" the characters anyway. 150 pts is very expensive for what they do, and I definitely don't see myself taking doubles of any of them if I don't have to. The Lord of Pain also has 0 synergy with the rest of the battalion. I could be wrong of course, but I rather take 40 extra archers (or 30+speaker) than the battalion with heroes if I was going for a shooty army.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

    Depraved Carnival looks like it could be like the old Kunnin Rukk. Thats a lot of shots

    450 pts character tax though. Its like 1090 minimum or something, close to 1400 with 10-10-30 archers. Compared to other shooting factions it's pretty pathetic shooting for those points and it's made of glass. Haven't tried it though so maybe summoning can make up for the shortcomings but there are a few armies like KO or Tzeentch that will just delete all your shooting turn 1. 

     

    Nobles are the only new bat I like, but I'm not sold on the twinsouls or painbringers yet.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

     

    48 minutes ago, Enoby said:

    What would you say makes them weaker than the slickblades?

    With no allegiance abilities marauders + sorc for rerolls deals less damage than 10 slickblades, are slower and have the same wounds/save. On top of that Slickblades has more synergies (keeper CA is big) and doesn't rely on a spell and are slightly cheaper. Marauders does give you more bodies though, and the extra character can be good on certain battle plans.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    39 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

    I definitely think I'd drop the second keeper. There just isn't enough CP to justify two. I'd probably try to replace it either with Glutos or with a Contorted Epitome.

    This was my take away as well from playing 2 keepers. With the old 6 characters + sybarites it was another thing but now, especially since inspiring presence is crucial to keep your mortals on the board and generating DP, CPs are too valuable and sparse to dump them into double keepers. Having 2 daemon heroes form a goon squad makes Locust a lot more reliable (I'll take a gamble on a 3+ 3+ roll or 3+ 4+, but no way am I risking a keeper on a single 3+) and seems like a very potent way to play. But that might change as people learn the match up and adapt. I think I'm gonna try Bladebringer on either exalted or seeker chariot instead of a 2nd KoS.

     

    52 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

    He won all of the priority rolls, but I did get off two out of 3 9" charges with my summoned Daemonettes.

    In Godseeker thats completely avarage (+1 charge and re-roll = 64% success chance)

     

    59 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

    Iron Golems continue to impress.

    Oh, hadn't considered them but thinking about them now they seem like a better alternative to warriors or painbringers if you want something that is just tanky. How do you use them? 

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Feii said:

    on the same boat, when the rules were sppoiled I went "well, let us wait 2 years for another battletome/AoS 3 supplements/WD articles with new rules and mechanics because this is one of the most boring and uninspiring army ruleset/datasheats release in the AoS for a new army maybe ever. (and for S tier level of sculpts) 

    Have you played with the new rules? I found them infinitely more fun than the last book, night and day. I get that it's not gonna be for everyone, but it promotes a completely unique playstyle that requires more finesse and less brute force. Some stuff point costs are off, but points go up and down every 6 months anyway so they're subject to change.

    5 hours ago, Rors said:

    BUT out of the experiments with depravity, someone will find a S tier jank list that has zero narrative sense and is power gamed. The problem then becomes that any other hedonite list taken to a competitive scene will be intentionally weaker. While people are talking about a keeper or 30 demonettes for 12 depravity, I think someone will probably write a list that easily does say 9-10 every turn while also being able to pay the game and it'll be enough to break the ballance with just too much summoning as it'll be a chariot t1, chariot t2, keeper or demonettes on t3, sometimes better depending on rolls. That alone is probably enough break the points ballance of the game.

    I mean most power lists doesn't make much narrative sense and all lists for all factions are weaker than the min-maxed top build, but I get your point. I thought there was gonna be a summoning list that were borked but I'm skeptical now. There is no way you're getting turn 1 summons since you get points in the battle shock phase (exception being if you go 2nd and opponent fed you a ton of points in his turn, which wont happened). Even by turn 2 its hard since 9-10 points per turn means you'll have 19-20 pts by the END of the turn, meaning first meaningful summons lands on turn 3.

    The issue with summons is also that since they land in the end of the movement phase they might not have an impact on the game before turn 4, by which most games are already decided. Don't get me wrong, its a strong mechanic, but the current summoning rules the impact is delayed compared to before. I do think there is a of potential but I don't think it will break the game.

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Fictional said:

    If I was to start collecting Hedonites today, what's my best value between 2x Shadow and Pain halves or 1x Shadow and Pain and a start collecting?

    Id say S&P + SC for sure. With double S&P you get too many hellstriders and you don't need double lord of pains. It depends on how you want to build your list obviously, but for "general purpose" the SC variation is the way to go.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by umpac

    11 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

    I’m pretty sure that’s one of things that will get FAQ’d. It’s pretty clear RAI that any wounds he deals that get through saves are taken, but RAW are muddy. I’m sure they’ll clear that up soon. He’ll absolutely be worth his 260pts once they do, right?

    Drakkfoot is has the same wording as Sigwald and was FAQ'd to only be able to deal 3 wounds to morathi. He still won't be worth 260 points unless to play a ton of DoK and not much else, and even against DoK i think hes too squishy for 260.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    17 minutes ago, Poryague said:

    Damge wise compared to some other archers the foot bows are ok. Far as armor our foot bows are the only one who can't get a 5+ save. Only ours in this list run and shoot.

    The big difference is in the support. Unbuffed skinks are a joke, but skinks are WAY better shooting than Blissbards because they can have +1 to hit, proccing mortals and shooting in the enemy charge phase. Blood stalkers are meh until they start shooting twice. Blissbards only have a battalion to buff them, and while a free shot goes a long way, 450pt character tax is a deal breaker.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    Just played a game on TTS against a friends Fyreslayers on Knife to the heart. He had 2x20 HGB, 20 vulkites, a magmadroth and a bunch of foot characters in the speed subfaction (so not Hermdar, but otherwise the list is tournament level). I played 2 KoS, Sigvald, 2x5 Slickblades, 1x5 Painbringers, 3x11 Archers and Wheels of Excruciation. Obviously we're both new to the book and my friend is new to FS so it was a game full of mistake but heres my take away:

    - Summoning isn't as easy as I though. Even though I played endless spells and a ton of archers to maximize gain I didn't reach 12 DPs until turn 3, and had 11 DPs at the start of turn 4. I think 2x 12-point summons are gonna be reliable, but 3-4 is going to be luck and match up dependent. Still thats 660-680 pts summoned.

    - Double keepers make the new Locus very reliable. and very strong if your opponent doesn't play around it. Clipped a unit of HGB and they were stuck hitting back with 2-3 guys per keeper which I just out healed until I ground them to dust with Sigwald. This is very reliant on opponents making mistakes, if he had clumped up better before taking the charge he probably would've killed the keepers.

    - Sigwald is not a 260pts character. Even with 3+ 4++ he just died to the HGB unit once they hit back even though only 3-4 had the range. He killed 10 zerkers before going down though, but that was with a 9 attack charge and double pile ins against the ideal target. He doesnt provide any value outside of combat prowess (no spells, no CA, no ranged attack, no special abilities). 

    - Slickblades are great. One unit took down a Magmadroth themselves but died to bouncing MW + battleshock. Bravery 6 on these guys is ROUGH so probably want to stick them near a hero or something.

    - Archers underperformed a lot. Very little damage and 3 units were overkill to put out spread pressure and generate DPs.

    - Wheels still suck. Wanted them for the DP gen but they did more damage to me than to my opponent and mostly hit stuff that got damaged anyway.

    I ended up grinding through enough HGB thanks to the 2 Keepers grinding down enough zerkers for me to summon in 50 daemonettes and swarm his objective and win in turn 4. I also rolled god like for the entire game and he rolled terrible. First impression is that the book felt good, but not great. I won largely due to match up unfamiliarity and luck, but I think there is potential here.

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Gistradagis said:

    I guess, but they could have made it at least 2 heroes or smth. 3 is such a tax, when they don't even fit.

    Yeah unless you REALLY want that +CP, artifact and fewer drops you are just way better off taking more archers than spending 160 on a battalion and another 450 in character taxes, I was playing around with it trying to make a list I like but in order to make decent use of the bonus shooting at least one unit has to be 33 and by then you're battalion is up to 1410 pts  and even with only the minimum units its 1090. 

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by umpac

    10 hours ago, Yoid said:

    Slickblades deal around 10 wounds vs 4+ save (counting both exploding 6s and MW on 6s) you can round it up to 11 wound being extremely picky with the decimals, but that's it. They hit quite vanila compared to other units in the same price range without any extra tankiness. I gues you can count the 20 wounds as being tanky nowadays.

    Are you sure you're counting with the mortals doing damage in addiition? Are you sure you're taking the new Euhporic killers into consideration (+2 attacks on 6s for smaller units, +3 for 20+)? Because it should come out to 13 that way.

     

    Edit: Ah, turns out someone mistranslated, seeing the English version now I see Euphoric killers are the same. You're right its 10 wounds, which is okay but not great.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, Yoid said:

    Slickblades definitely need to have a damage value of 2 or D3 in the spears, even if it is only while charging, they are really weirdly priced. But it seems like movement got an increase in points and we are paying that price across the army.

    You think? I feel like slickblades are proabably one of the best of the new units. They put 13 wounds into 4+ save which isn't a bad deal for 200pts. They're also 10pts per wound which is better than most cav (though their save is worse). The move is obviously where they really shine, with 14" and RR charges. They're disgusting at stealing objectives and are actually fine even as straight up shock cav. I think the Blissbard seekers are way, way worse.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by umpac

    19 minutes ago, Enoby said:

    For now, I'm going to explore a new battletome that has a much wider range of viable possibilities that our previous one. 

    This is the way.  People calling for petitions about how weak the book is are as hilariously misguided as the ones already calling the book overpowered. The summoning mechanic is a big question mark, but on paper it looks insane. Does it really matter if the mortals are 20-30% too pricey if you drop 1000+ pts of free deamons on the board? Point problem is less of an issue anyway since GHB and winter updates will fix those issues easily. As long as the warscrolls and allegiance abilities are good you're golden, and Im more than happy with ours. 

     

    Also Twinsouls are absolute blenders. Fighting in 2 ranks, easy access to re-roll hits and can get to 2+ to wound with dmg 2? They are gonna dish out 30+ wounds to 4+ save easy, and that's before a keeper lets them pile in twice. And if you have a Lord of Pain nearby they can get 4+ 5++ and keep the rerolls. Only issue is that they will bounce HARD vs stuff like morteks, but that's were a ton of -1 rend shooting comes into play...

    • Like 5

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

    If it's not an errata, only one summon per turn, and it's impossible to have DP in the first turn if you go first (you get them after the bravery phase). 

    Yeah I know, first turn is going to be a dud even if you go 2nd since your opponent can control how much DP you get. What I meant with "almost every turn" as basically every turn from the 2nd and forward. Either way Im thrilled depravity now triggers for non-heroes AND isn't drastically different vs 1W or 2W armies.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    Hot take:

    Im a bit let down by Blissbard Seekers since I was looking forward to the return of ranged light cav. Sure they're fast but their output is pretty terrible at 2,9 wounds against 4+ save from a unit of 5. There are also sooo many things with absurd threat ranges that will easily tag them at 18". Maybe Im missing something.  At this point I will probably be inclined to pick Slickblades instead if their combat profile is good/decent.

    New Locus is great and adds a ****** ton of survivability to heroes in combat, new depravity is fantastic. Sigwald looks solid but a bit janky. Summoning costs seems very low, if the "one summon per turn" rule is true then you are probably summoning 12 costs almost every turn if you have the right type of list.

    All in all the depravity change is enough to make me super happy, everything else is just bonus at this point.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by umpac

    26 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

    Honestly at this point I wouldn't be surprised if the allegiance ability where the same (depravity included) and the only new additions, gamewise, where 11 warscrolls + 3 battalions.

    Yeah this seems more and more likely, which is a shame. It seems fairly obvious from the article that there are still 3 sub factions which seems to have the same rules as before and the faction rules will probably stay the same as well. I don't mind the rules staying the same but I was really hoping for depravity to change (mainly letting other units than heroes generate it somehow), but chances are the only new stuff are the new models and their rules, as you mention.

    I personally kind of like the hero hammer aspect unless its just keeper spam... but it feels very limiting to our roster building.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Enoby said:

    I am curious (if a little worried) that our daemon side and core rules won't see much of a change. Maybe I'm wrong, but with hosts staying the same and that mentioning "3 additional battalions" (in addition to our current 4), it sounds like a lot of the rules are supplementary.

    That said, no mention of depravity points which is good.   

    Yeah, the way they keep saying "additional" warscrols and "11 new units" makes me think this is spot on. They also referred to the recent meta watch article, which I can only interpret as a lot of stuff staying the same or similar.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by umpac

    38 minutes ago, Sorrow said:

    Something based around Glutos, Myrmidesh and Slaangors maybe?

     

    Im betting hard on Slaangors being glassy as hell, in their intro article they were described as: "In combat, they’re engines of wanton destruction, shock troops with no care for their own lives as long as they can snip some enemy heads with their impressively sharp appendages."

    Maybe they're getting pile ins after they die? Myrmidesh looks to be pretty beefy though, gonna be interesting to see how they differentiate from regular Chaos Warriors. As mentioned by @Enoby  in current AoS you need to be ultra tanky (2+ Ws, good save with rerolls or ignore rend, at least some form of ward save) to actually be tanky. High damage units in this game can easily force 30-60 saves at rend -1 so even 3+ save and 2 wounds is gonna feel like tissue paper, so you are better off being a glass cannon than somethin in between.

     

    Edit: oh preview is up

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    23 hours ago, SorryLizard said:

    But the maurauder models suck and don't have the persian look anyway.

    What's out there in fantasy or historicals that fits the bill?

    I've been searching for a good alternative for a while but imo the only good option is converting GW models. Cultists or warbands with weapon and headswaps seem solid. 

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    On 1/21/2021 at 4:38 PM, Overread said:

    Strange article in how they jump back and forth between armies, also how they are doing Slaanesh a few weeks before a new tome. The other odd thing is no mention of Depravity nor how Slaanesh was working at the top end by taking lots of leaders; heck their Slaanesh list was almost all chaos warriors.

    I mean he says "Slaanesh loves its leaders, so there are a range of Heroes that gain Feast of Depravities and can summon reinforcements" in the key points section, so its definitely mentioned. Maybe the lack of focus on it is a sign that its getting toned down in the coming book but we can only hope at this point.

    The list is strong, Lurid Haze Archaon is solid as hell. Usually its 0 Slaanesh units though (replaced by sorc lord and a horde of marauders), but it would be pretty weird to promote Slaanesh with a list with only S2D units. Sadly, Archaon and maraduer lists are the strongest version of Slaanesh at the moment, so thankfully they're getting a new book soon.

×
×
  • Create New...