crkhobbit

And have less melee range, and less Bravery. So they lag slightly behind if you can get everyone within 1" of their target. For a unit of 5, that's probably not too bad. But at 10, it's going to be more challenging. If they had dropped Retributors down to 180, they would only be better against Sv3 or better, but retain all of the drawbacks.

That's actually supposed to be "Decimators x10...". I changed the size in the calculations but didn't update the row label.

I haven't done math on all of them, but Retributors are still more expensive per point of expected damage done than Evocators. IE., Evocators are a better better when only looking at damage done. However, Evocators also have an unbind every turn, a spell every turn, they have a higher move stat, and they have 2" melee range. I thought they were better when I was counting 2 attacks per star mace...

oops

140 Battalion: Vanguard Auxillary Chamber 100 Knight-Azyros 100 Knight-Azyros 100 Knight-Zephyros 180 Lord-Aquilor 160 Battalion: Vanguard Angelos Conclave 330 Vanguard-Hunters x5x3 180 Vanguard-Palladors 120 Battalion: Vanguard Justicar Conclave 150 Aetherwings x3 140 Hurricanes 140 Hurricanes 140 Hurricanes I don't know if this is good or not. One drop. Start the game with 4 CP - not sure what you'd use it on. Probably Astral Templars; not sure.

Couldn't tell you were "jokey". Just seemed like the ton of info they dropped about SCE wasn't enough for you. Anyway, all the SCE points have been leaked so you can get all the info you want now.

Correct. In this preview of a small number of changes that will be in the book, the Extremis chamber, and countless other units, were left to die in the streets. Maybe they're changed in the book, but who cares about that when this "announcement" is so important!

"Stormcasts have seen a whole host of changes that help to balance their vast pool of units against each other and the other armies in the game." This does not necessarily exclude Extremis. We don't know all the changes yet, just what they wanted to mention.

Guessing: Teleport (and maybe deepstrike) Longstrikes behind their lines and take out heroes Same thing, but no idea how to chew through 160 plague monks while winning objectives, unbind all the vortex Shoot the dragons, twice. Unbind the 5+. Teleport (and maybe deepstrike) Longstrikes to take out Jezzails, then heroes. Just kill stuff.

Felt like I've been missing something. And there it is. Thanks.

You're missing a lot of mortals for Retributors, which are throwing off your points per damage numbers. Retributors are actually a better buy when looking at points per damage for anything better than a 4+. Again, Evocators are obviously better overall and for other reasons. My entire point is that Retributors shouldn't be ignored without looking at them properly. Especially since a points change to one or both units might happen this month.

The level of hyperbole against Retributors and Sequitors in the last page or two is the kind that strongly encourages internet groupthink and a lack of innovation. Retributors are very close to Evocators in damage dealt per point spent. They're actually better per point (on average) against a 4+sv than Evocators with swords. The complete dismissal seems excessive. And a 20 block of Sequitors has no place in Anvilstrike. But it's a very strong anvil unit that many lists will struggle against. Worthy of consideration at the very least.

Don't discount the 30" range on the Longstrikes. There will be times where your Hurricanes can't shoot because they aren't in range. Or they aren't in range of the target that you really need dealt with. Additionally, if you're 18" from the enemy, they're only 18" from you. 30" range is much safer. Especially when you're paying that many points for so few wounds. I'm not saying one is better than the other. But it's real easy to get lost in the numbers without properly considering how it plays on the table..

What's your take on the Vexillor for a guaranteed teleport without needing previous positioning instead of a Veritant? Reroll to charge might be useful as well. I realize you might be blowing that teleport first turn on the Longstrikes, so reusability might be important, as is the extra unbind. Just curious to hear your take on it since the Veritant teleport is going to fail ~1/3 of the time.

I don't want to be that guy, but just changing your list will not ensure you fight at the top tables, and will not automatically produce auto-wins.

Someone more bored than I am should figure out how many 50mm bases can fit wholly within Lauchon's base.

I started typing up a very thorough reply, but the context is this statement: "Other SCE players would be placing better". And the response to that statement is this evidence that other SCE players are placing better.

Made me curious, so I looked it up. In addition to PJetski, current ITC 5th place has also only played SCE.

Maybe this is old hat that I'm just now getting around to, but why is no one playing Warrior Brotherhood? Seems like at least a decent mid-tier list. It's one drop and can ds the entire army. +1 Bravery and reroll wounds of 1 is icing. Heraldor, Vexillor, 2x10 Retributors, and then the rest of the reqs is exactly 2000 points. Drop in the Rets with the Vex and get two re-rollable charges on units that do comparable damage to Evos. Then drop libs in front of judis somewhere and hold an objective. Extra CP from the bat, and both heroes can have an artefact. When compared to Evos, you lose Empower. But spells seem so ridiculously unreliable that I don't think I care anymore (especially when other armies have bonuses to cast and unbind). Can't cast Empower the turn you ds anyway. Obviously haven't played it in the current meta yet. But my current impression is that it was good once, something changed, and the echo chamber decided it was now bad. Maybe it should be re-evaluated. It doesn't have the unfairness of +6" charge with a Gav bomb, or shooting twice with Longstrikes. But a one drop and deploying anywhere is pretty unfair from a board control perspective.

Right, you kinda need Aetherwings. So even 6 Longstrikes at 360 is actually 3 drops for 460 points. Plus a teleport. So your 6 Longstrikes are now at 560 points, and are going to average about 6 wounds per turn against a 4+.

Agree that Skinks do something that's not in our book. And they're a great points-per-wound cost. But I don't think we really need them. If they could be our battleline, I'd take them. But as an extra battleline-like unit in addition to the battleline we already have to take, I think they just dilute the list. I hate the variance on ballistae, too. But Longstrikes are just so fragile. And so expensive. Having a hard time justifying spending the points (and the $). They also have less damage potential. And the Longstrikes share a wound pool. 12 damage would wipe out the whole unit. 12 damage to a ballista kills one ballista; and you still have 2 more and an ordinator. And for that reason, they can drop in anywhere on the board without needing to be bubble wrapped. I've even dropped them in front of my sequitors (when the situation called for it) so the opponent has to charge the ballistae and split up their attacks, leaving my sequitors available to move and/or pick targets. It's real satisfying when they just do 6 damage to a ballista, effectively doing nothing. 6 damage to a unit of Longstrikes is 180 points dead, and a battleshock test. As far as wanting more bodies on the board, Longstrikes are the opposite of that. 18 wounds for 540 points, to do an average of ~10 damage per volley against a 4+ save. And that's not counting what you want in support - 100-120 points for a teleport, and 100-150 points in birds. If you get a good position, and if you get to alpha with the Longstrikes with Anvils CA, they're going to do some great damage. But that's two big ifs for the amount of points you need to spend. Seems like a win-more unit to me. If things go your way, they're awesome. If things don't go your way, you're forfeiting a huge chunk of your army.

I've been having good results Anvils with: Arc on foot Heraldor Vexillor Castellant Libs*5 Seq*5 Seq*10 Dracolines*6 ordinator+3*ballistae I think this is the exact same as Nathan Princi's list? 10 sequitors seem to be enough when you're hitting hard enough with the dracolines and ballistae. Honestly, the sequitors haven't been doing much because they don't need to. Often just sitting on an objective and not getting to attack. Target selection is super important (not that it ever isn't). Ideally, ballistas drop in and take out a problem. Then Dracs run+charge to get an alpha on something. Hopefully positioning so that enemy pile-ins are awkward at best. They're not super tough, so you still need to be careful with them. If they survive the turn, Anvils CA (if you can have something in range) them to clear whatever they're engaged with so they can charge again. In the games I've played, Castellant and Vexillor have done almost nothing. I keep imagining the vexillor teleport winning a game, but it just hasn't come up. So they're currently on the chopping block. Moving back to a 20 block of Sequitors makes me want the Castellant back. But kinda thinking he's just an unnecessary tax. A win-more, if you will, because the list isn't relying on the sequitors to never die. (and because the things that kill 20 sequitors still do-so even with a +1sv). Instead, the list is relying on the ballistae and the dracolines to put enough pressure on the opponent that the sequitors aren't really a focus. Next iteration I'll be using is: LAoGC Heraldor Ordinator+3*ballistae libs*5 seq*5 seq*20 evo on d*6

What you should say: "Which models are the hags?"

Liberators with Shields already re-roll save rolls of 1?

A local player told me that Evocators are not good in 10-man units - they're only good as 5-man units. Considering taking a 15 man unit against him this week.