Trevelyan
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Posts posted by Trevelyan
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2 hours ago, overtninja said:
I think 4 is probably the max you'll need - it's unlikely you'll set up more than one base at a time, and filling the whole board with forests aren't really a thing any more.
I’ve never not been able to place at least four woods, even using the terrain placement rules. They frequently go around the edges rather than the middle of the table as they once did, but using them to move units later in the game, especially behind the enemy line from turn 3+, has won me games.
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2 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:
Treelord Ancient or Spirit of Durthu?
12 minutes ago, Landohammer said:Durthu is hands down better than Treelord Ancient. Personally I would rather have a vanilla Treelord over a TLA.
Landohammer frequently sees things differently from me. This is one of those times.
I find the TLA vastly superior to the standard Treelord. The generic Treelord competes directly with Kurnoth Hunters in the 200 point range. It brings a stomp and a ranged attack, but still suffers from costing as much as a unit of Kurnoths but not being a unit of Kurnoths. The only time I take a Treelord is as part of a Lords of the Clan battalion in a Gnarlroot Glade, or if I’m playing a casual game and fancy a challenge.
“Durthu or TLA?” is like asking “apples or oranges?” One is a melee beatstick who prefers to have support to keep him alive and at optimal performance (someone has to heal the ****** and provide it with Wyldwoods) and the other is a multi-purpose wizard with enough combat potential to contribute to a fight without being able to win solo. Which you want depends on what else you have in the list.
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4 minutes ago, Atreyu said:
Hey there, how many of the new Wyldwoods are needed on average at 2000 points?
That varies considerably but most people seem to use at least four, including the free wyldwood placed before set up. Fewer than that is likely to leave you wanting more, but there will likely be opportunities to use more if you have them.
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5 minutes ago, Emissary said:
They're soft until you can reroll all hits for all of them and they can neuter or kill threats in a single round.
Exactly. So how do you balance a unit which is great under a single Glade with support, but very poor otherwise?
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11 hours ago, Landohammer said:
Spites are kind of a slippery slope. Units of 5 are overshadowed by Tree Revs, and units of 15 are obsolete because of the 20 man discount.
I agree that there is no point in taking 15 when a mere 20 points will get you the full 20.
I’m not sure that they are overshadowed by Tree Revs. The two units serve a very different purpose. Spite Revenants are the cheapest way to meet the battleline tax and also provide the cheapest battalion. Tree Revenants are a lot more expensive if you just want minimum battlelines and don’t have an easy battalion.
You can get more use out of five Tree Revenants than five Spites Once they are on the table, but they don’t have the same value in list composition. And neither option is valid if you actually want a proper battleline tarpit.
4 hours ago, Emissary said:The woods in the old days did damage out to 3" and would straight up kill things that charged or ran across them. They could be deadly andy opponents would avoid them like the plague. Now, not so much
As for bows, I actually think they're the only bad unit in the book.
Swings and roundabouts. The notional damage of the old woods was much higher if your opponent charged across them and rolled poorly. In practice that rarely happened. I find that I probably do as much damage just from forcing enemy units to stand near Wyldwoods for combat. It’s particularly notable when you start damaging heroes.
The hidden advantage of the reduced damage on paper is that opponents are far less concerned about being near the woods so more susceptible To a host of wood-related abilities. They’ll happily charge you into or near a wood, hoping for a quick end to the combat, then get slammed over several turns by the Roused and Wyldwood abilities.
Bow Hunters are overpriced. Maybe splitting the warscrolls will allow GW to monitor and adjust over time. The trouble is that they actually perform well if you can spam and buff a lot of them, but perform poorly without support. That’s a tough situation to balance with the bow hunters alone.
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26 minutes ago, Landohammer said:
Branchwych's are fine if you just want a cheap caster or if you bring along a balewind vortex. But if you have the extra dryad models the wraith is clearly better.
The wych might do some damage late in the game but the wraith has the potential to put 100pts of models on the table every turn.
Basically this.
The Branchwych isn’t bad by any means. 80 points for a caster with a credible melee attack (when injured and within 6” of a wyldwood) is actually pretty good. But the same 80 points will get you the Branchwraith who can summon dryads and is harder to kill.
The Branchwych also suffers from the arrival of the Arch Revenant at only 100 points. Archie is clearly better in melee, has far greater mobility and an excellent command ability.
There is definitely still value in the Branchwych’s Unleash Spites spell, especially if you can boost the range (eg with the Vortex as Landohammer suggests) or the casting value (the Gnarlroot Chalice of Nectar could be interesting there, but usually has better places to go, or maybe Throne of Vines). But overall she sits in that awkward place where she is a cheap combat caster in an army that has better options in the same price range for a dedicated combat hero or a dedicated support caster. She sees more play in lower point games where you don’t have the luxury of taking specialists.
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13 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:
Thanks everyone for the replies. Thinking about it, I may not go the Outcasts anyway. It doesn’t really give me any faster deployment compared to my original list, and I’m not sure the additional artefact helps all that much compared to the extra bodies. I may try it out in the future though if I’m finding I need it.
You’re very low on casters. I’d be tempted to keep Outcasts and use it to give the Branchwraith the Spiritsong Stave. That allows you to summon Dryads and do something else at the same time, likely summon a new Wyldwood, or cast whatever other spell you give her. Normally Throne of vines is a viable combo for greater reliability on the summons.
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3 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:
Another quick thought; would it be a waste for the Arch-revenant to hang around some bow hunters to give them the re-roll buff, while giving a group of melee hunters the extra attack command ability?
Probably worth trying. Envoys of the Everqueen lets you give the melee hunters an extra attack from anywhere, and they don’t generally need the rerolls to make their presence known, whereas the bow hunters have fewer attacks and a harder time hitting, so appreciate the boost.
The one thing to consider is how you would then apply the Frozen Kernel to the melee hunters. The arch revenant is an ideal delivery mechanism thanks to her speed. You could give it to Durthu, but a unit of six scythe hunters with two attacks rarely need Durthu hanging around to help them.
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Make Durthu the general and give the artefact to the arch revenant. The arch rev is potentially vulnerable but you’ll likely use the Kernel turn 1 or turn 2 and you should be able to keep her safe long enough.
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4 hours ago, Neomaxim said:
Any thoughts on adding Gotrek to a Sylvaneth list?
As Sylvaneth already have very points-efficient battleline in Dryads, I thought there might be points to make it work
I’ve not had the chance to try Gotrek personally, but from what I’ve heard from a guy at my local venue who has, the way to make Gotrek work in a list is to put Gotrek in the list. Everything else is plain sailing. More realistically, you probably want to avoid having him swamped by elite infantry, so some cheap bodies to babysit are likely useful. Which brings me to...
Spite Revenants are a more point efficient battleline than Dryads by some distance. Using Dryads you need at least 300 points. Spites are only 180 for the minimum, and for 280 you can take an outcast battalion.
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1 hour ago, Fjezze said:
Do you still get a free awakened wyldwood before setting up your armies? I see people talking about it but i can't find it anywhere in the book?
Page 70 under the heading Awakened Wyldwood.
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11 hours ago, Ian Wallsh said:
Can anyone recommend where I can learn to paint like a pro....? I'm still busy "Assembling" my first Sylvaneth Army but I'd really like to make them look good!!! 😁
There are a lot of online videos. GW produces a fair few of them with links to basic tutorials in the citadel colour app. Following those is enough to get to to a good tabletop standard.
Actually painting like a pro takes a lot of time and effort.
The biggest tip for a complete beginner is to thin your paints. Think paint is the root of all evil.
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1 hour ago, velocitydog said:
Awesome, thanks!!! I don't hate the models but just like the pure walking tree look of the others. From what I've read they are great for objectives.
Dryads are good for holding objectives, especially if you can get a Wyldwood close by.
Tree Revenants are good for taking unprotected objectives, but most players won’t leave one unprotected for you to teleport onto unless they’re out of units to hold it, so the Tree Revenants often do more duty as a threat (forcing enemy units to camp distant objectives rather than participate) or as charge blockers.
Personally, I much prefer the Revenant models to the Dryads, and they are still walking trees, just walking trees with ghostly torsos fused to them. The bigger loss is Drycha, who also sports the torso-in-a-tree look.
But while you miss out on a few tricks by ignoring them, you can still field a competitive list with just Dryads. You’ll just have fewer competitive options to choose from.
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11 hours ago, Landohammer said:
Here is a secret: Non-sylvaneth players don't know the difference between the treelords lol.
That varies by local player base. If I turned up to an event with a Spirit of Durthu holding a magnetised TLA staff I would expect most people playing me to ask “why is your Durthu holding a staff?”
You might get a little more leeway with the standard Treelord head vs the Ancient head (assuming people don’t miss the huge beard on the Ancient, but Durthu has a very distinctive face.
If you are going to magnetise the right hand on a fourth model then I’d recommend building the rest of it as the type it is likely to be most often to minimise confusion.
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64 Dryads is a good number to work with.
I’ve got four SC boxes and went with 1x Treelord, 1x Durthu and 2x TLA so I can run a Lords of the Clan Battalion.
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1 hour ago, The World Tree said:
I'm glad my question about Envoys wasn't as stupid as it seemed!
Does it mean that, for example, I am always in range of the Dreadwood command ability or the generic ones?The basic question remains pretty strange. The fact that a handful of people are confused doesn’t make it less so - Plenty of people apparently believe the earth if flat, but that doesn’t make it a topic for serious conversation. (Not suggesting that Envoys Doubt is on a par with Flat Earthers, just highlighting that you can’t always judge the validity of a view by the number of people who share it).
But the Dreadwood ability (and others from Glades) is a valid question as it isn’t clear whether that counts as a Sylvaneth Hero using the ability. Dreadwood, for example, says that you use the command ability then measure range from a Hero.
That’s said, the text is pretty close to Ghyran’s Wrath (use the ability, measure range from a Hero with that ability) which I think we can agree must count as Alarielle using the ability, so I’m inclined to assume that the Glade abilities should be read as being used by a Hero. But I could be convinced otherwise.
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1 hour ago, Pennydude said:
If you can still measure from the Kurnoths after the activation of the ability, then yes I would agree and I 100% hope that's the correct answer.
There is nothing in Envoys that suggests you cannot.
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I think I see. If it helps, units need to remain wholly within 12” of the Hunters to benefit - they can’t leave Hunter range and still refill any more than They could leave range of Alarielle herself. You could think of the Hunters as being like a signal booster, or relay station with a 12” broadcast range.
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51 minutes ago, Pennydude said:
Well sorry about that then. My intent wasn’t to make up stuff. Just an honest question because when I brought up my interpretation of it to some of the local players, it wasn’t shot down.
You don’t need to apologise. I just don’t see how you came to your interpretation from the text of those abilities. I’d genuinely like to understand, because I right now I don’t.
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15 minutes ago, Pennydude said:
It's more of an interpretation. My feeling is that with an ongoing "aura" ability like Alarielle's and TLA's, the ability could only be measured from those models (like the abilities say) because they own the ability and not the Kurnoths.
I honestly hope that I'm 100% wrong though.
You are wrong. You are adding entirely new concepts like “ownership” then declaring it confusing because the rules don’t address something that you’ve made up.
It’s really as easy as adding the phrase “... or wholly within 12” of a unit of Kurnoth Hunters” to the range of any command ability.
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4 minutes ago, Pennydude said:
Just needs some clarification.
Which bit, precisely? Quote the section that is unclear, because I'm not seeing it.
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2 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said:
Its badly written tbh
It’s perfectly clear.
Alarielle is a Sylvaneth Hero with a command ability, Ghyran’s Wrath, that reads: “You can use this command ability at the start of the combat phase. If you do so, you can re-roll wound rolls of 1 for friendly Sylvaneth units while they are wholly within 14” of a friendly model with this command ability.”
Kurnoth Hunters have an ability called Envoy of the Everqueen: “If a friendly Sylvaneth hero uses a command ability, friendly Sylvaneth units wholly within 12” of this unit are treated as being in range of that command ability.”
A unit wholly within 12” of the Hunters is treated as being within range of Ghyrans Wrath. What is remotely ambiguous about that?
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17 hours ago, The World Tree said:
So, Envoys of the Everqueen. How does this rule work? Obviously things like the TLA or Alarielle's Command Ability's always affect them and radiate from there. Are there other ways to use this ability?
I’m not sure that I understand the question. Envoys is pretty straight forward now - “If a friendly Sylvaneth hero uses a command ability, friendly Sylvaneth units wholly within 12” of [a unit of Kurnoth Hunters] are treated as being in range of that command ability.”
It works with any command ability used by a Sylvaneth hero and potentially increases the range of that ability. The list of abilities depends on which command abilities you have available.
If you want to know which command ability I use most, then it’s the Arch Revenant’s Call To Battle, either directly on the Kurnoths (always wholly within 12” of themselves) or occasionally using them to relay the ability to Durthu.
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With the caveat that we’ve not seen exactly what Orruks look like in the new book, I suspect that Tree Revenants will have value against them both as charge blockers and objective takers.
One of my regular opponents is an Ironjaw player. The default plan of most Ironjaw armies is to move up as fast as possible and crush you beneath a tide of green. Positioning Tree Revenants to limit their new movement tricks and/or to take advantage of the space they may leave behind them (or just threaten to, and so keep the horde from advancing as swiftly) are both valid tactics.
All that said, you may want at least one solid Dryad unit as a buffer between your Kurnoth Hunters and the Ironjaws. I strongly doubt that Tree Revenants alone will stop them.
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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion
in Sylvaneth
Posted
We still only disagree some of the time. Besides, life would be boring if everyone agreed on everything!
I don’t think that a melee profile has to consistently improve as points increase. The TLA isn’t a direct upgrade to the standard Treelord (that’s Durthu’s job) but a different branch to the family tree. The extra points get you a wizard with a good spell, an automatic Wyldwood and a command ability. The TLA is vastly more durable than a Branchwraith or Wych as a forward support wizard, supplementing Kurnoths with Verdurous Harmony or summoning Wyldwoods in more advantageous positions and capable of handling smaller infantry units solo.