Trevelyan
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Posts posted by Trevelyan
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4 hours ago, Landohammer said:
Alternatively Winterleaf can be slapped on anything. As long as you have a dude to hold the Kernel you are good.
Yeah, but... in practice the Arch-Revenant is by some margin the best delivery vehicle because she can get almost anywhere to use it. And a blob of Scythe Hunters (with an extra attack from Archie) are the best targets of you really want to make the most of the double attack. Plus you get the biggest benefit of you can deliver a solid alpha using that combo, so a Spiteswarm Hive is a regular option to help that. And you absolutely want to guarantee the Wyldwood for them to teleport to, so the TLA is very useful...
Between that lot, I tend to find that Winterleaf writes half the list too. Every time I vary it I end up wishing I hadn’t because the above combo is so good.
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On 1/17/2020 at 6:50 AM, Kaime said:
How are you transporting them? seems like a lot of space to transport 3-4 forests, especially the new ones?
I generally use some templates that I cut from a Deepcut Studios mat. Very easy to transport and no one locally objects for a friendly game.
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On 1/18/2020 at 12:25 AM, Trajann Valoris said:
Just a silly question... In the last GHB FAQS the list of primary terrain is updated with a scenery called Wyldwoods. It's a mistake and it refers to the Awakened Wyldwoods or does it refer to a generic non-sylvaneth Wyldwood?? Because I haven't found any scenery or warscroll that are just Wyldwoods
It’s not a silly question. AFAIK, there is no official answer but there are a number of different opinions.
Locally, the consensus is that the only Wyldwood GW currently lists and sells is the Awakened Wyldwood, and the convention is to allow Awakened Wyldwoods as generic scenery. That benefits me personally as Sylvaneth, but quite a few other factions seem to appreciate the option to place some fairly aggressive terrain that discourages charges and reacts to magic. One Tzeentch player treats them as very convenient AoE bombs to further enhance his spells. I’m sure at least part of the appeal is because my FLGS has a lot of the old woods available as terrain to use on the tables, so people can try them out.
Im sure that there Places where people take a different view, though.
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9 hours ago, Undeadly said:
So far, I was able to get quite a decent collection when the new Sylvaneth book came out, as I picked up Looncurse, a SC and then purchased 2 more Treelords, Drycha, another box of Revenants and a Branchwraith. Although, I am now running into the problem of how to effectively build them, and how to expand them as an army. I am also, admittedly, daunted by the cost of Trees. Any advice on how to get this army growing?
By my calculation, you have:
3x Treelord variants
Drycha
1x unit of three Kurnoth Hunters
3x five Revenants (I think Looncurse came with two)
16 Dryads
1x each of a Branchwych, Branchwraith and Arch Revenant
I would assemble one of each Treelord type - you will want one Durthu and one TLA to start, and you might as well assemble the third as a standard Treelord. Some people will advocate magnetising them, but personally I don’t think they magnetise well enough, and with three models you might as well just glue them.
For the Revenants, you probably want to get four sets of five in total with three assembled as Spite Revenants and one as Tree Revenants. Three Spite units is the minimum for the very popular (because it is cheap) Outcast Battalion. Tree Revenants don’t see as much play as core battleline, but having one or two minimum units for charge blocking or objective grabbing is useful. Probably best to assemble the first three as Spites for now, but get the Trees soonish.
You need more Kurnoth Hunters. For preference, I would aim for a unit of six with Scythes. But if you want to start assembling immediately then make the first three into Sword Hunters and get the scythes later. With a few dissenters, the general consensus is that Swords work best in min units and Scythes in larger blobs. Having six Scythes and at least three swords is a good target. You may want Bows in the distant future, but for now they are only a priority in a few specialist lists.
You need more Dryads. One more box of sixteen Dryads is the bare minimum. That would give you 32 total from which you should assemble three Branch Nymph leaders and 29 generic Dryads - enough to run them as units of 10, 20 or 30. Long term you will want at least one more box on top of that.
Of the three recommended purchases, I would struggle to choose between the Dryads and the Hunters.
Three Hunters is rarely enough at 2000 points. So I suggest at least one more box of Hunters - I would personally go for the six Scythe hunters (including your original Looncurse set) and maybe pick up Swords later.
More Dryads is the other top priority. You simply don’t have enough to cover battleline and summoning. While three units of Spite Revenants will just pay the battleline tax, leaving you some summoning capacity, you want more Dryads to see the faction working properly.
The Tree Revenants can wait, but not too long. They rank alongside more Kurnoths.
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9 hours ago, Arnied3 said:
Excellent...............😈
It is gloriously effective. I’ve taken down a Ghoul King on Terrorgheist and something in the region of 9-12 Crypt Flayers in a single Alpha strike using that combo. The rest of the game was short.
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I don’t know of anything off the top of my head. I’d be curious to see whether anyone else does?
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31 minutes ago, Zanzou said:
wow im asleep sorry
Dare we ask?
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That Gnarlroot wants a TLA general is fairly self evident for the reasons you suggest. I would go further and suggest, as I have upthread, that Gnarlroot benefits from more than one TLA.
The Gnarlroot lists I have been experimenting with typically start with two TLAs and Drycha as the frontline casters, with a Branchwraith in reserve. That’s 920 points.
I always like 6 Scythe hunters as my primary melee beatstick for another 400 points (1320 total).
That leaves 680 points to play with for battleline and other extras.
You can add the minimum Outcasts battalion for 280 points, leaving 200 more to play with (more Kurnoths or something else), but I find that often isn’t enough bodies to adequately screen the casters. For that reason I tend to take a unit of 20 dryads and two smaller units of Tree Revenants (for multi-purpose mobility) and a standard Treelord to give access to LotC and a second artefact (Vesperal Gem)
My most recent list was:
Drycha (Regrowth)
TLA (General, Vesperal Gem, Verdurous Harmony)
TLA (Chalice of Nectar, Regrowth)
Branchwraith (Throne of Vines)
6x Kurnoth Hunters (Scythes)
Treelord
20x Dryads
5x Tree Revenants
5x Tree Revenants
Lord of the Clan
Gladewurm
Spiteswarm Hive
You can swap the spells about and drop one or both Tree Rev units for Spites. In theory you could drop LotC, the Treelord, Drycha and some spells (or play around with the battleline) for Alarielle, which might be interesting to try.
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34 minutes ago, Inquisitorsz said:
It's mostly contrast paint doing some heavy lifting lol
What did you use for the bark?
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That’s awesome!
Far too much of my army is still just grey plastic. 😞
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1 hour ago, Inquisitorsz said:
Awesome thanks for the feedback
You are welcome. I hope it goes well, you’ll have to come back and tell us!
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24 minutes ago, Inquisitorsz said:
The other units all get rerolls too. I imagine the hunters will roll around with Drycha. She can cast mirrorpool to keep up with any teleports.
. . .
I don't care much about the Gnarlroot trait.... The winterleaf one is just as average.
It's all about the items.
. . .
Only one of them can have throne right? Or can they both have it but only cast it once?
The Gnarlroot trait benefits anyone with a caster to back them up. That means you need Drycha or Alarielle supporting a unit to benefit. If either of the girls died then you lose the reroll. That then presents you with a challenge as they are both prime targets in their own right, and making them lynchpins for buffs to other units only exacerbates that. You’ve then got the dilemma: do you protect them behind a layer of Hunters to preserve the buffs but limit them to ranged attacks, or do you allow them to fight but risk losing them? In contrast the Winterleaf trait applies to everyone so you don’t actually need the girls to hang around with other units.
. . .Picking a Glade purely for a single item is probably not ideal. Especially when the purpose of that item is just to enhance your Dryad summon. Getting an extra batch of dryads on the table is nice, but it’s not a game change in itself. Consider that the unit you summon in T1 will only be able to move/teleport on T2 and will need to make a 9” charge of it wants to fight before T3. The Hive can help with that, but a competent opponent will be able to block you out of good teleport positions but ensuring that there is nowhere within 6” of the Wyldwood that isn’t also within 9” of an enemy unit. I find that the most realistic use for Dryad units is coving backfield objectives, and occasionally securing unprotected enemy objectives. You don’t need to dedicate significant summoning resources for that.
I used to get really excited about summoning Dryads. Then I started to question what they really did for me. 80 points for a summoning unit is good value, but is it necessarily worth taking the effort to enhance further? At best, each 100 point Dryad unit is a 5% increase in total army value for a 2000 point game. If you did go with Winterleaf then the Frozen Kernel applies to an alpha strike Scythe Hunter unit with Arch Rev buffs can happily wipe out at least a third of the enemy army. That’s a tidy swing in its own right and can leave the opponent unable to respond if you remove their key units.
Other army traits are worth considering. Gnarlroot Kurnoths are even tougher than usual. I had a unit of six take Archaon to the face last week and only lose two Hunters (Tanglethorn Thickets plus Gnarlroot The Earth Defends) the remaining four managed to kill Archaon in return, just tipping over the edge with their Trample Underfoot. That’s the sort of thing to consider when weighing up Glades - how do you want to play (offensive, defensive, other?) and which Glade supports that best.
It sounds like you want an offensive army with lots of Kurnoths And some heavy hitters. That’s not a game plan that Gnarlroot helps nearly as much as Winterleaf.. . .
The only limit is on who casts the spell - one attempt per turn - but multiple units can take it.
That said, unless you are really committed to summoning maximum Dryads, and have a solid plan for them, I would rather keep Alarielle casting the throne, and two other buffed spells, from the start. Alarielle one the throne is a good way to summon the Hive. Branchwraith with the Chalice is better, but then you’re back to delaying the summoning.
That’s why I have a lot more non-character casters in my Gnarlroot lists - the artefact is strong, but it is wasted on a Branchwraith.
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1 hour ago, Inquisitorsz said:
OK hive mind. I need some last minute list advice. I think I've narrowed it down to 2 options.
Honestly, I don’t like either of those as Gnarlroot lists. The only real benefit you are getting from Gnarlroot is the reliable summoning on the Branchwraith. But Nurtured by Magic is largely wasted on her as you’ll rarely have a target for it. Alarielle and a Drycha can benefit from the rerolls, but they benefit just as much from Winterleaf.
On that basis I would go with Winterleaf rather than Gnarlroot, and Option 1 to give the Arch Revenant the artefact.
You could consider fiddling points for an Outcast Battalion. If you drop the Sword Hunters (Alarielle can summon as needed) for a third unit of Spites, perhaps even a larger unit, you’ll have points to spare for Outcasts and more infantry. You may or may not want to buy the command point if you are getting one from Outcasts anyway.
Drycha and Outcast Spites complement each other well, Archie supports the Scythe hunters and Alarielle generates her own support. Meanwhile the Branchwraith churns out extra Dryads at the back.
You could give the Dryad Throne of a vines too - she only needs to cast it first turn (Alarielle gets it thereafter) but it helps a lot with her summoning. -
13 hours ago, a74xhx said:
Outside of LOTC, do you think it's usually best to run the tla with a treelord, in order to make that stomp reliable? Or are you mostly keeping the tla out of combat?
Are you putting the gnarlroot trait and artefact on the tla? The temptation is to throw the gnarlroot artefact on the dryad summoner - but that feels a waste
Outside of LotC I very rarely run a standard Treelord. Even at 180 points it is less appealing than paying a little more for Kurnoth Hunters. I might be more interested if it drops to 160, but for now the drop in damage output from the monster damage charts is too steep.
Outside of Gnarlroot LotC I probably use a TLA about half the time, almost always to support a unit of Kurnoths with Verdurous Harmony and some 3” reach attacks. In that case I treat the stomp as a nice bonus rather than something to depend on. It’s certainly not something worth spending another 180 points to up the proc rate from 50% to 75%.
If I’m running Gnarlroot LotC then I almost always give the TLA General the Vesperal Gem and Verdurous Harmony, supporting a unit of Kurnoths (6 Scythes). Restoring one with VH and healing another with Nurtured by Magic keeps the unit ticking over.
The second TLA gets the Gnarlroot Chalice. This TLA tends to run with the vanilla Treelord, so Regrowth is my likely spell choice for emergencies (although he may not be the only caster with it - I like Regrowth on Drycha too), he really wants to be casting Verdant Blessing or an endless spell each turn. The Chalice is to help with those.
If I’ve got a third artefact it’ll be the Spiritsong Stave for the Branchwraith with Throne of Vines. Otherwise I’ll just have the ‘Wraith cast Thrones on Turn 1 and summon normally thereafter. I don’t think that improved odds of an extra unit of 10 Dryads with the Chalice is ever worth the losing the frontline casting bonus for the second TLA.-
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Just to clarify, I wouldn’t usually take a second TLA. But in a LotC battalion, which I would generally only take in a Gnarlroot Glade anyway, then I would absolutely rather have two TLAs and one Treelord than the other way around.
EDIT: I’m now wondering whether there are other occasions where two TLAs would be valid. Either taking LotC in another scenario, or without LotC.
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A Branchwraith in isolation is far more fragile than a TLA and can’t perform in a second line support role nearly as well. A TLA can die, but requires a reasonable effort to kill it. A Branchwraith, in contrast, can die to a stiff breeze. In a Gnarlroot list in particular, the TLA is vastly more useful than a Branchwraith for applying the Glade buff behind a line of other models.
Standard Treelord + Branchwraith is one of those things that looks better on paper - it costs the same and has the (fractionally) better combat potential you suggest. In practice, on the table, it plays very differently so the straight cost comparison isn’t the whole story.
While there are merits to the BV, if you want one then you need to build that into the comparative cost.
All of which isn’t to suggest that you would never consider a Treelord + Branchwraith as an alternative to a second TLA, but it isn’t a one-sided issue. -
On 1/7/2020 at 1:06 PM, IndigoGirls said:
Has anyone found success running the vengeful skullroot? It seems unwieldy but potentially powerful. ... It's reasonably pointed, I'm just concerned about moving it around.
Remember that you don’t have to move it past the enemy unit, you can shuffle an inch forward over the target then move back to a clear space in front. I managed to hit three units with a single Skullroot last night by casting directly in front and sweeping the line.
For added value, the chunky base is good for blocking movement.On 12/20/2019 at 1:27 AM, Pennydude said:I do agree that having 2 TLAs kinda sucks because you can’t use each model’s Silent Communion ability.
Having two hands kinda sucks because I only use one to write with. 😛
Seriously, there is so much more to a TLA than that one ability. You still get another robust caster with monster stats and a useful spell.
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20 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:
Winterleaf just feels like a bit of a win more ability in comparison. I don't think it shores up many weaknesses in the army.
Short of addressing glaring gaps that leave you vulnerable to a wide variety of other factions, you generally benefit more from enhancing strengths than from mitigating weaknesses.
Whether Winterleaf actually enhances strengths is a different question - you might just as easily argue that Dreadwood is really a better strength enhancer by building further on our existing mobility. But looking at whether a Glade makes us slight better at things we don’t do well is the wrong approach.l from the outset.
12 hours ago, Arzalyn said:I would use her to summon another unity of 3 Hunters with swords. Is she worthy at this point range or would be better to use those 600 points on more bodies?
I would be cautious with any list that depends on Alarielle summoning a specific unit in order to work.
One advantage of her summon is the high degree of flexibility it brings. Kurnoths make a good default option, but Alarielle works best if she has at least the option to drop 20 Dryads as a screen or to secure an objective, or 10 Tree-Revenants for unexpected mobility.
If you generally need her to summon a specific unit into the list but can cope if she doesn’t (or if she does before you get the chance) then that’s potentially viable, but if you will always want the same unit then it might be better to take that unit from the outset and take an extra 400 points rather than Alarielle.
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15 hours ago, Gibs said:
Is there actually enough healing to make Tree Lord Ancients and regular Tree Lords viable on mass? They don't hit very hard and with the amount of wounds units can put out these days a few D6 heals isn't going to compensate for that?
They hit harder than most things. Their damage is as good as it gets outside of a healthy Durthu, and the baseline Treelord gets more basic attacks than Durthu does without a nearby Wyldwood. The problem has always been that 1) you risk whiffing on relatively few attacks; and 2) Kurnoths were better for the same price. Gnarlroot LotC addresses the former and we will see whether the point drop is enough for the latter.
Healing is also a Gnarlroot advantage. But you also need to think about how they are taking damage in the first place. Two or three treelords together is two or three stomps. That should almost guarantee you stomp the biggest threat, and you stand a reasonable chance of stomping a second unit. If the treelords then take enough damage after those stomps and past a modest dryad screen for healing to be a problem then you’ve probably already lost.
Your proposed LotC changes are appealing on paper but not thematically appropriate. “Treelord heroes” rather than TLAs can only be intended to allow Durthu, and Durthu doesn’t belong in a LotC battalion - Durthu is linked with Kurnoths.
Allowing Treelords to be battleline would be fine, though. Plenty of other factions have similar options (FEC can take Crypt Flayers and Zombie Dragons as battleline) and I was surprised that we had no battleline options across any of our glades.
12 hours ago, Pennydude said:I do agree that having 2 TLAs kinda sucks because you can’t use each model’s Silent Communion ability.
That rather overlooks the value that a TLA brings outside of that one ability. Having an extra caster in Gnarlroot is worth more in my experience.
2 hours ago, Arnied3 said:How are people finding it on the table? Do you split up the TLA's and run the TL with one of them? Or do you keep the battalion together for a larger potential are for the ability?
I’ve split them before and run the TLA General with the Gem and Verdurous Harmony to support Kurnoths. That’s a very solid combo but I’m not sure it is much better than taking Archie in the same place - the Kurnoths tend to murder things anyway so don’t much care about the healing.
I’d be tempted to run all three together or add a second Treelord to see how it works out.
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2 hours ago, a74xhx said:
And here's the issue - Drycha +6 Kurnoths still feels like the better choice. Alarielle is still going to die quickly against good opponents. (Personally, I'd always have her summon those 20 Dryads to bubblewrap her.)
. . .
Given the points drops, I tried making a list based around Treelords varieties. But you quickly run into max 4 Behemoths limit (It's not possible to take a full Lords Of The Clan battalion in 2000 points due to that limit!).
Drycha plus 6 Kurnoths hits harder than Alarielle, but remember that it’s Drycha +6 Kurnoths vs Alarielle + whatever she summons (can be 3 Kurnoths) +120 points of spells or other units. Which is better can be highly situational.
Drycha herself is even squishier than Alarielle and is less mobile. Alarielle can die easily if you leave her exposed, but you can keep her alive in many cases if you play more cautiously and don’t overcommit. Gnarlroot helps keep her healthy if your opponent can’t kill her before her next hero phase. I’ve played games where Drycha is awesome, but equally I’ve seen her be underwhelming and die too soon. Alarielle can die early but a 16” fly and the ability to drop a summoned unit at the far end can be an absolute game changer.
Minimum LotC is all you really need. That said, I’d be interested to see if a second Treelord would be viable, allowing you to split the battalion into two pairs on the table. Maybe dropping Alarielle and Drycha (and even downgrading Forest Folk to Outcasts plus a Branchwraith) to take a second Treelord and a bunch of Kurnoths might work. Far too much theory.
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11 minutes ago, Bululu said:
So what now guys, is alarielle worthy again at 600 points, any new sweet lists with all that point reductions to trees and the goddess herself? They really showed some love to sylvaneth this december
Alarielle was worthy at 660, she just wasn’t mandatory. Dropping to 600 certainly doesn’t make her less useful.
The Obvious way to squeeze the most out of the point changes would be Alarielle plus Lords of the Clan. That comes to 160 points cheaper than before. It still leaves you room for a Forest Folk battalion and all three faction spells.It looks good as a Gnarlroot glade. You would have six spells per turn (seven with the Spiritsong Stave), a fair amount of accurate ranged attacks and a buttload of healing (consider our healing spells with the Chalice and the Gem on top of the Gnarlroot and Alarielle healing abilities). It lacks serious damage output, but Alarielle can summon some Kurnoths, and accurate Gnarlroot Treelords would carry their weight. I wouldn’t call it a top competitive list, but definitely viable.
The obvious alternative would be to drop Alarielle and the spells (600 + 120 = 720 points) for Drycha and some Kurnoths (320 + 2x200 = 720 points).
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8 hours ago, Zanzou said:
so if there's no such thing as terrain that's not friendly, why would it specify that the terrain should be friendly?
Because specific beats general and a hypothetical ability or scenario might result in specific pieces of terrain not being friendly. It’s not so much that terrain has to be friendly as that terrain defaults to friendly in the absence of any rule to the contrary.
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4 hours ago, Pennydude said:
Spirit Paths, no. That ability on the TL, TLA and SoD say that the Awakened Wyldwoods must be friendly.
That’s not true. Core rules state that all terrain is considered friendly to all sides - second sentence of the first paragraph in the terrain section.
So while you do need a friendly Awakened Wyldwood, all Awakened Wyldwoods are friendly to everyone regardless of which side placed them.
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2 hours ago, Piikalo1 said:
If im playing a mirror match can we spirit paths to each others forests? Or do we only get to use our own.
You can use each other’s. Terrain is friendly to both sides.
AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion
in Sylvaneth
Posted
If Drycha is genuinely at risk on Turn 1 then you’ve misrepresented the choice - while you are sacrificing damage potential on Turn 1, you are potentially saving it on the subsequent Turns that she is still alive to deliver. If she is genuinely at risk.