Smooth criminal
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Posts posted by Smooth criminal
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14 hours ago, kahadin said:
Whats wrong with chaos knights? They should still have really high damage output.
Nothing wrong with them, they are good.
It's just a downgrade from before when you could take 10, slap shrine prayers on them for full rerolls and +1 save and have a fast deathstar unit. You still kinda can but then only 6 out of 10 guys get to fight.
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It is a melee-based game with a lot of pure melee armies.
Unleash hell should not exist except for specific units/armies. Pure shooting armies should not exist, no, you are not welcomed. Shackles or anything else should never ban charges but just reduce them by half at most. Pile in from 6" and all other loopholes that ignore charging should dissapear.
Base gameplay should not be warped by those base rules ignoring overpowered mechanics like "strike first" (remember when that one was a gearcheck?), "pile in 6", "unleash hell", etc.
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On 7/12/2021 at 4:21 AM, Sharklone said:
Anyone been able to put together a decent Khorne list using just battletom units and not souping in stuff. Our General options for mortals seems awful at the moment
My best shot would be:
Reapers host
1x lord on jugger general
1x priest with BP prayer
1x skarbrand
1x secrator
3x3 juggers
2x5 mongers, maybe 1x10
2x5 skullreapers
Use the warlord battalion or adjust a bit for 1 drop battalion.
Sturdy general generates CPs, you use them on units via champions for buffs. Mongers/secrator provide blanket +2 attack. You don't need other buffs.
Priest and msu ramps you into thirster summon.
Reapers host are for double tapping Skarbrand and summoned thirster.
The thing is, StD don't add much anymore.
You can't take above 20 marauders in a unit.
Knights fill the same role as juggers except they aren't battleline. They're fine but they aren't a big upgrade.
Shrines are useless without big blobs of marauders/knights to buff and only 1 prayer on 185pt body.
Warriors+lord are the only good ones when you take 20 but that is a big commitment.
Maybe some thirster build is the best for us but so far it seems like we're playing msu elite units until the next book. Which isn't bad per se sine our mortal units are optimized for msu play but doesn't seem very strong.
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If anything Archaon got better because of hero/monster abilities, +1 save on demand and scoring as 5 models now.
I think priest nerf is irrelevant to him, he never relied on priest buffs.
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Do warcry warbands not have a champion for the purpouse of using CAs? Their special dudes are multiple per unit and listed under Special abilities not Upgrades like aspiring champions in other units.
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GW is really pushing us into jugger general.
So what's the best thing we can get out of BoC? 20 Bestigors?
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On 6/21/2021 at 3:40 PM, CrimsonKing said:
I can see the damage output on skullcrushers is low and forget about D3 MW Murderous charge. What would be the best way in this edition to buff their damage?
If we're talking mounted list you can take bloodlords host and give secrator the +4" move general trait so he can keep up with cavalry
I think neither priest nor stoker are needed there. Shrine is probably better than priest because it can keep up with knights.
To improve the output of crushers/knights you can:
- take a secrator with a banner to reroll 1s
- mounted lord can take a free CP per round artifact or reroll 1s artifact since he is both demon and mortal
- jugger lord/goretide gives reroll 1s to wound
- use cp generating abilites/prayers to give them +1 to hit
So it's pretty easy to reroll both 1s to hit and to wound.
I don't see how you can go below 3+ to wound with Khorne but 2+/3+ with rerolls should be good enough.
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3ed makes me want to take lord on juggernaut just to be sturdy general to generate those CPs and promote crushers to battleline.
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The main buff thirster got is the ability to protect themselves from shooting by +1 save on command.
The thirsters don't need to be in the same battalion. As I understand only 1 battalion reduces drops and without it you always count the units.
I'd wait on the whole drop count debacle until the meta for that becomes clearer. We can go 1 drop with 1 thirster or 3 drop with 3. But neither option has additional artifacts to protect those. I mainly want a 5+ ward generic artefact for the general thirster.
Oh, also a neat bit. The unbind thirster now can unbind 3 things at +2, that could put a wrench in people's plans.
My opinion about blood warriors is that 10x2 wounds for 200 is the new baseline (see chaos warriors) and they fit that baseline. Of course I won't be taking them in a thirster-based list but some people played mortal lists with 10xwarrior units and those got better with the ability to command themselves.
Coherency reduces them by 30% now, you keep 3 dudes back.
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Khorne got out of this better than some other armies by quite a lot.
Thirsters barely got upcosted, Skarbrand even stayed the same.
Msu mighty crushers and skullreapers seem solid. Crushers outscore 5 man cavalry units by default, that's great.
Msu blood warriors are decent filler. Not needing hero around them improves them a lot.
Wrathmongers are great for reinforce points with the reach 2".
There isn't much to spend reinforce otherwise if you don't take marauders or chaos warriors.
Msu knights still good all-around unit.
Bloodletters still bad but nobody expected them to improve.
Since battalions are free the typical compositions seem to be:
2 thirsters, 4 heroes, 3+ units that gives +2 artifacts +1 cp for hero hammer. Those small heroes could be Karkadraks or Demon princes, pretty good.
Skarbrand, 2 heroes, 5 units, optional behemoth or 2 cannons for 1 drop.
3+ thirsters, 2 heroes, 3 units for +1 artifact +1 cp. This one is the new thirster spam.
2 thirster+prince seems like a better setup than 3 thirsters because you get 1 more artifact and prince's ability with CP surplus is pretty damn strong.
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The thirster-based khorne seems to have gotten much stronger in the 3ed with the new hero/monster buffs and ability to protect themselves from shooting with command abilities. Also the 6" pilein prevents unleash hell usage.
The std-based one seem to have gotten a bump too with shrines and unit leaders able to give commands. You don't need to play easily snipeable heroes for buffs now, just a bloodsecrator hugging a cover with a defensive artifact should be enough. Marauders costing 1 reinforce to max out is great, you can flood the table with up to 160 of them and they can make themselves immune to battleshock. Knights are great in msus. Warriors can throw +1 save on themselves with reroll but cost a ton of reinforce.
Khorne has one of the easiest CP generation in the game with blood point exchange each phase, you just need to time correctly. More msus on the table improves the blood point generation. The +1 hit/save prayers straight up save you a CP now, keep that in mind.
Gore pilgrims and tyrants are gone but both thirster and std lists moved on from them anyway.
Bloodbound seem super dead. Big warrior units and 6+ crusher units have gotten much worse. Bloodletters still dead. Big wrathmongers are probably still good with their 2" reach but probably not enough to carry the army.
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Oh boy, another trashfire faction release in line with slaanesh power level. Let's try to approach this one.
The good:
Manny (best model in the book)/Lauka/Throne for being a do everything big guy with a linchpin command ability.
Blood knights for good rate on damage, kastelai makes them nasty.
Terrogheist/vengori for being very sturdy in avengori and doing damage. Vengori also good in kastelai (what isn't?).
Zombies/wolves for good rate on wounds, they are basically pink horrors of this faction who grab objectives and screen. Night legion can go full zombie horde with immunity to battleshock.
Vampire lords for being your go to small heroes. Necromancers aren't needed because non of the summonables do good base damage, +1 attack is now essentially same output as fight twice.The bad:
Everything else.
Shoutout to entire skeleton subfaction which is essentially soft squatted.
Shoutout to Vrykos for being a wizard bloodline with 3 out of 4 name characters not being wizards.
All competitive attempts at gravelords will probably be along the lines of Manny/Lauka/Throne, 2x10 wolves, 2-3x40 zombies, 2-3xblood knights/vengori/terrogheist, some amount of small vampire lords. All subfactions except blood have their merits, kastelai so far seems like a frontrunner with a big turn of +1 damage to all vamps.
That's it, that's the faction for the next 6 years.-
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On 4/18/2021 at 3:42 AM, Graywater said:
Curious to see what people come up with regarding lists with new be'lakor. I'm thinking you're going to have to pick between him and plaguetouched now. He's too expensive to afford him and all of the units for plaguetouched without going full min units.
My initial thought was to drop him to try to squeeze more damage into my list. But I'm not really putting out tons of damage anyways, so now I'm thinking maybe going full control route may be the way to go for us.
List 1. Despoilers, Belakor + Godsworn + sorc (for artifact and reroll on Belakor) + random undivided units. 2 drop count, Belakor fights in hero phase.
List 2. Cabalists, Plaguetouched 4 sorcs + 4 units (or Pleasurebound 4 sorcs + 3 units), Belakor. 2 drop, you have lots of casts with bonuses.
List 3. Idolators, Chariot general + shrine + sorc (reroll) + Belakor + sea of undivided cultists (should be able to have 4 full units). Big drop count but you have lots of fearless bodies for scoring. Chariot heals Belakor.
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They made an Idolators host for those units, slap a mark, a full reroll on them from the shrine and you're done. You don't really need anything else, full reroll prayer is the best force multiplier per point.
Splintered fangs dump 10+ mws in combat phase. Untamed beasts can charge turn 1 across the table without teleport and kill the screens. Scions shoot. Unmades are for tagging stuff in small units.
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On 3/9/2021 at 2:16 AM, Rors said:
Belakor will definitely get a new warscroll and points with his new model. What would people like to see?
Not being a 600+ points monstrosity like Archaon. I was just fine with the old one.
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Glutos costs more than 400 points iirc so you can't ally him.
Archers could be interesting ally choice if gw ever fixes the ridiculous point cost. They have pretty good damage output.
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6 hours ago, Ganigumo said:
Unfortunately I don't see a big advantage to taking Unmade or Cypher lords yet, but I'm not very experienced with the army yet
Cypher lords - small screen units to grab objectives. Opponent either has to waste attacks on them or risk getting -1 hit.
Unmade - tarpit with no retreat. Also the big guys hit quite hard, basically like a chaos knight.
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Idolators already were arguably the strongest host. Now they are extremely good.
The marks even allow you to go 1 drop with cultists which was a big issue before.
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On 12/30/2020 at 12:01 AM, Dreddships said:
What does everyone recommend for an Idolaters list outside of the obligatory Cultists and Chariots?
Is the Ogroid Myrmidon worth it for the Cultist buff?
Take big knight/marauder/warrior units and support them with shrines. Use cultists for point capping and screens.
Don't take chariots except lord for mobile aura. Don't take ogroid ever.
I am personally assembling this for competitive play:
chariot lord
sorc
2x shrines
2x10 knights
40x marauders
32x iron golems
2x8 untamed beasts
Probably should have a Belakor somewhere.
Could also maybe take a big Untamed brick instead of golems and charge turn 1 with them with shrine buff.
Marks surprisingly don't matter much because shrines give you all the rerolls you'd ever want on demand. Khorne and Slaanesh are probably the worst ones. Nurgle and Tzeentch protect you against respective alpha strikes and Undivided makes you morale immune.
Shrine is the best buff dispenser in the faction (compare it to 170pt mounted lord, lol) and the host improves it a lot. Cultist buffs don't matter much, but the charge ability makes them solid for teleporting and capping points or bodyblocking stuff.
Not sure about chariot lord, but if you want a general aura he's the only possible choice.
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9 hours ago, Ragest said:
Made just to make it general to get the double pray.
I imagine some devs thinking that a rule like that should be totally broken, so decided to take out artifacts, make a terrible battallion and deny again the mark on cultists even in their cultists focused allegiance.
Fun fact is, only HEROes receive general traits as per core book. So the only one who get to double pray is the chariot who gets upgraded to priest.
I assume the idea here is to spam more than 4 of them because they stop being behemoths.
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At first I thought Idolators give shrines HERO keyword so they can carry auras, but they actually get LEADER one that does literally nothing except allowing you to not take other leaders. What a waste.
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On 9/26/2020 at 2:09 AM, Incredebilis said:
Hey guys, I know this is a specific question, but how would you deal with 3 celestar ballistas at 1000pts? I primarily play with Daemons but I’m planning on expanding to Mortals eventually anyway so advice there is good too. I was playing a friendly 1000pt match against my friend and lost Skarbrand by Round 2 haha.
First of all you shouldn't take skrabrand in 1000 points.
Second, the way with that is lose stuff them summon a thirster and whoop them.
On 9/23/2020 at 9:29 PM, Skarband said:i need your opinion which list better for the tournament 1000 points:
I'd go with first one. They both have 2 too many squishy heroes and not enough big units, but first one at least has demon prince that can kill stuff.
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On 8/25/2020 at 2:04 AM, broverpowerd said:
So today I ended up playing first time with Khorne and I played Kharodran Overlords. It was a new army, but needless to say I ended it having the opponent concede end of turn 2.
Yeah, DP is weak without the double fight from reapers.
Consider making crushers a 6 or even 9 sized unit. And consider jugger lord (instead of prince) to make them battleline since battleline is now important in the ghb.
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On 7/28/2020 at 3:42 PM, Roark said:
I find the magic cat is a gamechanger for Reavers. What do you guys think of this?
I think cat is great value for its' cost.
I haven't thought of a good setup for it yet.
Definitely correct to include shrine because cat is randomly mortal and can get buffed by it. Probably should include chaos lord with marauders to use the double tap before opponent strikes last.
You can tag stuff with mws from mongers/priests and then abuse the cat -2 bravery aura. In fact -2 bravery helm artifact may be a consideration for that. Opportunity cost is basically nonexistant except the artifact.
AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
They are probably fine given allegiance changes. 2x 3+/4+ is what they've had previously. Having built-in bonuses from marks makes them 3x 3+/4+ with flails in Khorne or you can go for tarpit in Nurgle (shields now stack with Defense order making them 4+) and saves you the trouble of having a hero around.
Rend will be their biggest problem in terms of output but there are ways around that like Sun or MW prayer.
Each 20 block in Ravagers gives you 10 to bring back for free and you can dump reinforce on them effortlessly because not much else needs it.
They stopped being long threating missiles, yes, that role got taken by knights.
For large numbers of chaff that kills other chaff they are reasonable. And we still haven't seen what all of their darkoath support does.