Smooth criminal
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Posts posted by Smooth criminal
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12 hours ago, Patriarch said:
I'm looking to build a pure everchosen liste. Archaon,3x3 varanguards, 1 guant summoner and maybe 1 endless spell. What cercle would be better? +1 dmg or "fly" to counter tarpit units?
+1 damage because you hit very weak otherwise. You will have to use teleport and gaunt horde killing spell to counter screens.
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Lances are about 30% better on the charge and 30% worse without a charge.
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8 hours ago, The Cranky Dwarf said:
What is people's read on chaos chosen? To me they seem like marginally better warriors. Am I missing something?
Consider them a buffer unit that gives out rerolls because you can't sorc buff everyone.
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6 hours ago, Filie said:
What weapons do you guys think are the best on Chaos Knights?
The swords seem superior if the combat lasts more than one round, but i'm unsure if I should be planning for longer engagements with the knights. I'm also curious if the flail is worth it.
Ensorcelled for me. I'll take an all-purpouse unit over a unit with terrible output without charge.
Flail is interesting because it allows the champion to snipe characters with 2" range. Not sure which setup is good for it, the default statline surely isn't. It will need a rend or +damage from somewhere.
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17 hours ago, Seraphina of the Seraphim said:
It seems Nurgle and/or Khorne are the standouts for the book, but as a mainly narrative player(who has no idea how math hammer or tactics work) Is there anyway to make a viable Undivided list? Doesn't need to be all Undivided, just a bulk of it. Thanks in advance!
Personally I think undivided is the strongest mark because of the ignore battleshock effect that saves you CPs to spam your abilities.
If you ever played against rats you how strong ignore battleshock+death frenzy+lots of bodies is.
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4 hours ago, Malakithe said:
Enough of this nurgle chat! Khorne list ideas! Go!
Khorne aura is worse on generic hero, but better on general. To have better coverage with general aura take Ravagers or Despoilers with bigger aura trait.
Ally bloodsecrator and wrathmongers.
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1 hour ago, Zappgrot said:
You could? How? The old rules for marks made you mark them when you deploy them. When do you build army list in aos ccording to the rules when you deploy?
Some faq clarified that "on deploy" stuff counted as native.
Doesn't matter now anyway.
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4 hours ago, LeSwordfish said:
Sounds like the Daemon Prince is the best bet for my army then, though I'll need to drop something to take him. Is there any particularly fantastic artefact for him? Can't go wrong with the Thronebreakers Torc, which also leaves my Bloodsecrator free to take the Thermalrider's cloak - but the Torc goes perfectly well on the Bloodsecrator too, so the prince could have some other thing.
Blade of judgement still very good on him.
Torc would give him the best protection against shooting.
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9 hours ago, itgnightraven said:
But the wound output should be better with killing frenzy and locus of fury for extra chamce to get mortal wounds in. This is the case for me as i am always playing a priest with killing frenzy in my lists.
It would be very marginally better. Also d3 damage still sucks. Also you should have better things to use killing frenzy on than 1 model with 7 attacks (of which only 4 benefit from the frenzy).
1 hour ago, Troll.exe said:-sorry Khorne-
Is anyone else looking at the Chaos sorcerer lord combo with wrathmongers and Archaon or Marauders? Rerolling everything with one hero is pretty ridiculous.
I'm liking the idea of using shrines instead of priests because they hand out rerolls and 3+ prayer with reroll from altar will almost always go off.
Sorc doesn't seem good because altar and bloodsecrator will interfere with him casting the reroll spell.
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Wait, are shrine's available prayers not dependent on marks?
So you technically can have you Khorne marked shrine buff a Nurgle unit with a Undivided prayer (full reroll). Sure, you won't get second bonus, but who cares when Undivided is already full reroll and Tzeentch one is reroll saves, that's all you need really.
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6 hours ago, firtahl said:
How is there not at least 1 mindstealer in every StD list? It seems like an amazing tool for just 100 points. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but ill be allying in 1 to all my eligible chaos factions.
The ability activates in hero phase. It's extremely easy to avoid, don't poisition your stuff 12" of it and you're done.
Sure, you can use it as deterrence for the next turn, but in my experience things that you want to make fight last usually hit so hard there is no next turn.
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6 hours ago, itgnightraven said:
is the sword better than the axe on the khorne daemon prince? and is it an autopick with killing frenzy?
Axe for me. Don't like the d3 damage and 4+ to hit.
Range 2" can be an argument, but he's fast enough to jump over screens I think.
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You know, fomoroid crushers are pretty damn good for a 100pt model.
Imagine taking 4, then in despoilers you can take artifact than gives them full rerolls against 1 hero/monster. That's 1 sniped lynchpin model.
And in general 4 can clear a chaff screen unit for your other dudes (teleported marauders for example) to charge in.
Oh, they are not even behemoths so you can have more than 4. I wonder if just spamming them will work well.
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12 hours ago, CJPT said:
Been thinking about this, and while it's a strong combo I think people might be underestimating how difficult it'll be to usefully combine teleport + fight twice. The Chaos Lord's CA is used at the start of the combat phase, and requires the unit be wholly within 12". The Lord will need to run to catch up to the teleported unit, and can only move a max of 11" himself without buffs. This massively limits the area you can teleport to and still benefit from the fight twice CA. Unless I'm missing something, obviously!
You are correct.
You will need to give Lord the Aqshy cloak to do that reliably in 18" deploy and still probably wouldn't be able to do that reliably in 24" deploy.
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1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:
Can you explain why? I wasn't blown away by the knight's warscroll (the lances are pretty meh)
If we go by pure math then knights just have the second best one after marauders. I would recommend ensorcelled weapons because spears fall off hard after 1 round of combat. 10 warriors for 200 with double weapons have slightly better output than 5 knight for 180, but given other stats knights are superior.
They are also fast enough, reasonably tanky, have mw save and are battleline. Pretty much a do everything unit.
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16 minutes ago, misthv said:
Any thoughts on a more elite list? Not a fan of horde armies, nor marauders in particular (sculpts, or conversions). Riders seem ok sculp wise.
Just bought 2 start collecting-boxes as a foundation, I do have Archaon but not too fond of him in casual play, have some Varanguards but seem a bit costly w/o Archaon. Oh well—any thoughts are welcome
Have a lot of other Chaos stuff too, Khorne/Tzeentch mainly that would be fun to ally.
Play knights.
They are probably second best unit after marauders in offensive output and they have lots of build around battalion and heroes.
Unit of knights + sorc on manticore. Unit of knights + karkadrak. All seem like solid modules that can push a flank.
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7 hours ago, themortalgod said:
I just don't see anything this army is actually good at? It doesn't hit hard. Its magic is pretty weak. It has virtually no shooting. It is pretty slow. It is a bit tanky, but relative to the cost per wound, it isn't impressively tanky either.
Competitively speaking StD has some strong things:
- fight twice that it can apply to almost everyone
- death frenzy that it can apply to everyone via Archaon
- the teleport spell (on an autocharge marauder unit that happens to have fight twice and death frenzy)
- strike first on demon princes
- kicking endless spells around, that's possible multiple activations of 1 spell
- several anti-horde spells that roll for each model
Given that sorcs double up as excellent buffers I assume StD will go as magic+tough guys or magic+marauder horde way. Sure, your magic won't go off against Hallowheart/Nagash/etc., but that is a small sample of matchups and turn 1 you can pull off teleport and buffs from outside their unbind.
My shot at cookie cutter tournament list would be Archaon+3x40 marauders+sorc+shrine or lord. You take his host and all this stuff is now battleshock immune and has death frenzy (and you teleport 1 blob forward turn 1 with full rerolls). And you do the whole predict double turn thing and the shrine makes him virtually unkillable, maybe shrine should be lord instead to double fight, because you can throw save rerolls on Archaon anyway.
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Bloodsecrator - +1 attack aura for khorne. Wrathmongers - same, but in lesser radius. They stack.
Harbinger - 5+ negate aura for nurgle units for CP.
Epitome - strike last for everyone in range on 4+.
Everything else is probably weaker than sorc's reroll or lord's fight again.
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4 hours ago, 123lac said:
Probably a silly question, but how does allying in the new Std units work for BoK?
Are we restricted to the usual ally rules, i.e. 400 pts for a 2000 pt army, or can we treat them as actual Khorne units?
I really like the look of the new sculpts in the Std start collecting box and would love to include them into my BoK army.
Everything that can take khorne mark is treated as native khorne unit.
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11 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:
Be'lakor and daemon princes are too expensive to be worth taking in my opinion 😕, their damage is not much on average and while Be'lakor has a very good ability, it's not even guaranteed. You'd be spending 240 points on a 66% chance once per battle ability. I think a nurgle daemon prince is the only potentially good daemon prince option, but if the nurgle command ability gets errata'd I'm not sure if it will even be worth the points to take a daemon prince, their other CA's aren't that great.
I think Daemon princes are required in matchups where you need to snipe heroes to win. With their strike first they can kill heroes before they pulls off combat phase buffs. You either play them or play several sorcs and kick endless spell around.
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11 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:
Be'lakor and daemon princes are too expensive to be worth taking in my opinion 😕, their damage is not much on average and while Be'lakor has a very good ability, it's not even guaranteed. You'd be spending 240 points on a 66% chance once per battle ability. I think a nurgle daemon prince is the only potentially good daemon prince option, but if the nurgle command ability gets errata'd I'm not sure if it will even be worth the points to take a daemon prince, their other CA's aren't that great.
I think Daemon princes are required in matchups where you need to snipe heroes to win. With their strike first they can kill heroes before they pulls off combat phase buffs. You either play them or play several sorcs and kick endless spell around.
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Despite how memey the Archaon+all Varanguard list looks it may actually be good. I mean all your dudes hit for a ton, fly, fight two times, ignore magic and have death frenzy from Archaon. And you're 1 drop.
It's kinda like chaos version of eel spam on steroids.
It also costs close to 1k $ so I'm not surprised GW pushed it so hard with exact specific host and battalion only for it.
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There is an StD tome review video out at usual place.
Battalion is 1 std khorne hero + 8 std khorne units, 180pt. Basically same as Blood host.
And this time it specifically says you can use it in BoK army.
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Now that points are out:
Marauders are our best battleline. I think the only reason why you don't just go 3x40 marauders is battleshock (also not having 3x40 marauders is a valid reason). Maybe you should go 3x40 marauders actually and give them exalted deathbringer.
Chaos warriors seems like a unit you take as 1 big one to sit on an objective and punch everything that comes close. Not sure if knights aren't just better.
Chosens and knights seems like the damage dealers of choice.
Knights are better than crushers and reapers in 180pt category because of rend, being faster and having mw save.
Chosens are kinda StD mongers, they fight mediocrily and they buff rest of your stuff (and themselves if they strike twice). Also they fight better than reapers for their cost, so they become the go to footslogging second wave damage unit. They delegate mongers to strictly buffer duty.
Chaos lords become important to play mortal StD stuff. We can protect them with 2+ anti-magic save fine enough, better than StD themselves.Soul grinders are quite undercosted. You pay 210pt for a model with essentially thirster combat capability and survivability. They aren't heroes so they can't proc double fight and locus on themselves, but they are easy to keep in the bubbles.
Compare grinder to 2x khorgorath, that's massively in favor of grinder.On the matter of Karkadrak vs. Manticore vs. Thirster vs. Daemon prince.
You obviously take the mortal one in Goretide as a general and in Reapers you want to have 1 Demon prince so he can snipe buffer heroes at the beginning of combat phase.
Karkadrak and Manticore actually hit harder than thirsters and scale extremely well from our +attack options (4 attack per buff each). Karkadrak is also not a monster and has 3+ so he's very hard to shoot. I think this will lead to Goretide build that wants to double fight with them.Chariots kinda got priced out of competitive play despite being very fast. Maybe you take 1 and ram it into side of opponent's army turn 1 to tag some units.
Battalion makes going low drop very easy. It's also very flexible. Just take all your std stuff, pick shrines instead of priests and add bloodsecrator/mongers.
Our battalions are mostly obsolete now. Thought StD make good filler for Tyrants list.
Archaon I think is priced out of being good in BoK. He needs a big pure StD army, you won't be able to take BoK goodies or any battalions.
Varanguard seem like worse knights. A lot worse.
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Have a lot of other Chaos stuff too, Khorne/Tzeentch mainly that would be fun to ally.
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
And here I was painting the chaos knights.
I expect dog spam to be replaced with bloodcrusher spam as the filler of choice.
I considered chosen at some point.
Eventually I arrived to conclusion that the mongers already do the thing chosens want to do and the third best units after marauders and knights are the warriors because Khorne normally doesn't get to do what warriors do (tanky bricks that can reasonably hit back). Although now skullcrushers are probably better than warriors in this role.