AHexInScarletRed
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Posts posted by AHexInScarletRed
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35 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I'm not really sure. I think both zombies and skeletons are good in both lists, actually. They just have slightly different uses. Skeletons bring staying power, while Zombies bring 40 bodies for just one reinforcement point, plus their pile in and mortal wound shennenigans.
I have been thinking about the choice between zombies and skeletons since we got the new reinforcement rules. I think 40 zombies for just a single reinforcement points are strong in a world where most units will be max-size 30 for two points. Having access to this option makes Gravelords one of the few factions that can do a real horde list now.
Skeletons, on the other hand, I still feel are kind of necessary to bring in a lot of lists just so that you can have a unit that can charitably be described as an anvil.
The nice thing is that both units are cheap enough that you don't even need to choose. You can easily run both and make a list that is both hordy, has a nice anvil and can still run and properly support a few units of elite Blood Knights:
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
Vengorian Lord (280)
Necromancer (125)
Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)
Total: 1965 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 169Thanks for the in-depth reply! Both Battleline Infantry options being viable has a myriad of positives and one negative, which is budget, so I'm trying to determine what to get, haha. Currently, I can more or less only afford one big block if I want to get anything else, e.g. a Vengorian Lord.
I've been toying around with this, as I'd only have to get the Vengorian Lord, one pack of Blood Knights and the Skeletons, the rest I have:
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
Vengorian Lord (280)
Necromancer (125)
Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)
Other
3 x Vargheists (155)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400My main gripe is the low body count, but with only one block of Infantry, I think Skeletons will outperform Zombies in this list in regards to holding onto an objective.
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2 Statements regarding our Battleline Infantry:
30 Skeletons make for a better Infantry Block than 40 Zombies in a Kastelai list centered around Prince V, a VLoZD/Vengorian Lord and Blood Knights.
40 Zombies make for a better Infantry Block than 30 Skeletons in a Vyrkos list centered around Belladamma, Radukar the Beast, a bunch of Wolves and Blood Knights.
Would y'all deem that correct?
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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Totally fair. I personally really love that the head of the Vyrkos dynasty is a weird, old fairy-tale wolf witch. I also really like all the other weird Vyrkos vampires like Kritza and Annika. But I totally get the appeal of the more martial Kastelai take on what vampires are like. It was actually really difficult for me to decide whether or not to go all-in on Blood Knights or wolf weirdos.
I feel like these are two totally different types of theme; so different that I'd need every unit that overlaps twice because of how differently I'd model them. A Kastelai VLoZD (which I have, heavily bloodied with Greenstuff, bits and glue) would look totally different in Vyrkos where I'd go all-out dark fairytale while Kastelai wants the martial blood theme. What I want to say is: I'd love to play both, but I'd have to invest twice which I maybe will, but since I already have half a Kastelai army (heavy kitbashed Blood Knights, too, half the model is blood), I'll go Kastelai first.
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56 minutes ago, stus67 said:
What's a solid kastelai core looking like right now? Prince V with a VLoZD buddy and 3 units of x5 Blood Knights? I'm building this army from scratch so I'm looking at what to buy next and kastelai with blood knights seems the most interesting to me. Vyrkos comes in close second.
I already have one unit of Blood Knights and 20 skeletons currently, and I bought a few of the vyrkos characters just cause they look cool, but Radukar seems to be pretty useful regardless of the clan you take.
Prince V & VLoZD I'd probably build like this (I'm in the same boat as you currently):
Prince V
VLoZD
Necromancer
30 Skeletons
3x5 Blood Knights
Fell Bats
Prismatic Palisade
Or instead of the Bats and Palisade 10 Wolves. 40 Zombies instead of the Skeletons offer enough room for two units of Fell Bats. Prince V + Vengorian Lord instead of the VLoZD is also an option that gives more board control with Wolves + Bats or Vargheists. I currently have 1 VLoZD, 10 Blood Knights, 10 Wolves. Not sure if I should get another VLoZD or the Vengorian Lord and I'm also not sure on Skeletons vs Zombies.
e: Radukar is good. I won't field Vyrkos Units in Kastelai, though, as I want to stay true to theme (Vengorian Lord is a stretch already, but I guess they have some at the Crimson Keep). Vyrkos with a VLoZD or Vhordrai (or, as seen on Page 21, both) looks solid, too, because of the good Spells.
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Can the Vengorian Lord Command Ability raise 1-2 Blood Knights, or is this limited to 1W (or Summonable, or...) Units? Or does it only heal e.g. a damaged Blood Knight and the rest of the healing is lost?
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3 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:
I read we got some slight point decrease in gh21. Do you guys know something about that? 😮
The only change is that you can field Radukar the Wolf without the rest of the court, the other units are all the same.
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2 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:
i made a row of impaled corpses using the old zombies.
Anyway i think that the most stand out as good ES are the palisade as a usefull tool against shooting and the shards for being very annoying. Also the horrorghast could be very nice in LoB since it negates battleshock CAs and causes D3 more people to run away
Also on a side note we can now take radukar the wolf as a single choice, huzzah
PS. AAAAUGH, my list is 5 points short of including a prismatic palisade, nooooooooooYeah, Palisade is hard to fit in, but kinda necessary, I think.
When running double dragon, it looks like this:
Prince V
VLoZD
Necromancer
30 Skeletons
3x5 Blood Knights
1x3 Fell Bats
Palisade
For 1970 pts; which is low on models. 60 Zombies instead of the Skeletons and Bats is an option, but that's low on units, then.
With a Vengorian Lord, I'd probably do:
Prince V
Vengorian Lord
Necromancer
40 Zombies
1x10 Wolves
3x5 Blood Knights
2x3 Fell Bats
Palisade
That's 2k flat. Could do 60 Zombies instead of the Wolves.
- I have neither Skeletons nor Zombies (but 40 Chainrasps and 20 Grimghasts 🙄), so I'll have to decide what I'll get. Also one VLoZD, so either a second or a Vengorian Lord. 10 heavily modified Dragon Princes wait for their 5 new friends; at least there I know what to do, haha.
e: Have you thought about what an absurdly good fit the Vengorian Lord is as a former Blood Knight who escalated on the riding-into-combat thing and became his own horse? That's glorious.
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Cogs are now 45 pts for the +1" to Charges. Might be worth it with the reduced point costs. Prismatic Palisade is now 40 pts and still blocks shooting, so that's nice, too. Ideas on how to colorize Prismatic Palisade to fit us? I have Cogs modified to be made of wood with the blueish things made bloody instead, but no idea on the Palisade.
e: Hmm, what about coloring as stones that come out from the ground and putting some corpses onto it as if they were pushed out from their graves when the stones rose?
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1 hour ago, JustAsPlanned said:
Had a dream last night that Grave Guard got new models, but they were a limited run and sold out in like, the first two minutes. Is this a portent of things to come?
I dreamed that I was a Tyranid Warrior when I was 14. I had one of those Bio-weapons and ran over the fields behind my parents' house. Half a lifetime ago, but I still remember that vividly, haha.
Back to topic: 40 Zombies + Baby VL for the +1 Atk and doubling the ones that get up or 30 Skeletons + Necromancer for Objectives in Kastelai? 👀
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11 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:
I feel like if I run Kastelai, I'll want Vhordrai plus a regular VLoZD, to really put the squeeze on with that Hero phase attack.
Yeah, I also feel like Double Dragon lists are gonna be one of the stronger options of Kastelai. We'll now always have enough CP to not think twice about triggering Prince V's CA. There's still room for a block of 30 Skeletons, 3x 5 Blood Knights and one unit of Wolves and Bats each. Not sure if I want a Necromancer instead of the Bats to have better chances of being near the Skeletons for Deathly Invocation and simultaneously pumping up Invigorating Aura by another +1. The Unit Champions provide really good defensive Buffs even without the Necromancer, though.
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Now that the Coven Throne is meh, Mannfred's CA got a lot better, no? It's not as if the bubble was super-small. My narrative mind has a hard time making Mannfred or Radukar a permanent member of a Kastelai List, so I'll probably play either Double Dragon or Prince V + Vengorian Lord. Mannfred just as an observation, Radukar y'all already did.
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1 hour ago, Raptor_Jesues said:
i am adamant on vhordrai, vengorian, 4x5 bloodknights and 10 wolves but i am having an hard time on the rest. I realy do not want infantry and i am a bit bored by vargheists so i will try on radukar i think
I just deleted all my previous lists on Azyr and started from scratch now that we know the Coven Throne won't make it into our lists. Have you thought about a unit of 20 Wolves? The Unit Champion now can do Rally + All Out Defense and a unit of 20 isn't expensive for 40 Wounds on a 5+. Unwieldy, though. I also tried VLoZD + Vengorian Lord + 20 BKs, but I'd just fill that with Skeletons + Wolves + Bats. My experience is limited, is why I want bodies (and since its backed by the lore in the book, I'm okay with that).
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1 hour ago, Raptor_Jesues said:
shame on me for having only 20 bloodknights, should have taken more.
ANYWAY, i spotted that now piling in is not towards the nearest model but towards the nearest UNIT. This is very juicyHow are you gonna build Kastelai now? Double Dragon? I think that the Ghost Mist-Spell gives us a really usable anti-shooting-tech (not that it's reliable, but at least it's there and doesn't cost points). The fact that we can apparently use one of those without a batallion makes us less reliant on Warlord, which I still think is tax-heavy in Kastelai.
I thought I'll either
- Prince V
- VLoZD
- 30 Skeletons
- 10 Wolves
- 10 Wolves
- 5 Blood Knights
- 5 Blood Knights
- 5 Blood Knights
or
The same, but 60 Zombies + Baby VL instead of the Skeletons and Wolves. Skeletons are pretty much self-sustaining with Rally & All Out Defense, now (but I know you prefer Wolves).
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Aren't Skeletons pretty self-reliant with the Unit Champion apparently being able to give them All Out Defense and Rally? Even if we put one Necromancer, we still miss a second Sub Commander for the Warlord Batallion - which we should probably ignore when playing Kastelai. As somebody pointed out, a Vanguard Batallion with a Necromancer (or a VL, since the +1 Attack probably does more) and a block of 60 Zombies could be worth it in Kastelai, too.
E: Yeah, filling with Kritza is definitely an option. Ignoring the Vanguard Batallion and instead making that Warlord is tempting, although I'm not quite sure if that's better than just going Prince V + either VLoZD or Coven Throne, as we don't need the second Artifact that badly on a small hero.
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I think it's way easier to field Core Batallions with Vyrkos than with e.g. Kastelai. Warlord in Vyrkos is VLoZD, Belladamma, Necromancer/VL which all provide good utility in such a list. Kastelai doesn't want any Hero under 10 Wounds (apart from maybe Belladamma, but feels a tad out of place). So Kastelai pays Sub Commander Tax, while Vyrkos does not.
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8 minutes ago, Honk said:
You can always field an „understrength“ a unit, but in matched play you have to pay the full price for it… 🤓
Agh. Is there any usage to be gotten out of that? I mean, it's written that it's max 1 of each role, so I thought there's more to it 😛
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Does understrength mean that we can field 1 unit of 5 Wolves instead of 10?
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1 minute ago, Liquidsteel said:
A VLoZD can't ambush, Blood Knights only.
Wow, you're totally right. I was so set on it being 50 % of the army that I totally ignored that. My bad, thanks x)
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1 hour ago, Liquidsteel said:
I'm still not totally convinced by the Coven Throne, for the points you can just get more bodies/blood knights.
I quite like the idea of Vhordrai + VLoZD.
If the Coven Throne can give its CA multiple times per round and ideally can target like Prince V, a unit of Blood Knights and the objective holding Skeletons, I think it's a great support piece. Once per turn doesn't make up for the points, though.
But since we now get more CP, we can basically include Prince V's CA into the equation. A VLoZD with Swift & Deadly (re-roll Charges in 12") and The Red Casket (once per battle +3" to Charging) has a super-high chance of getting the charge in the turn it entered the battlefield via The Crimson Keep.
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I'll swap the list-talk from the Black Knights thread here as my last post didn't mention any Black Knights, haha.
We declared the core of a Kastelai list basically this:
- Prince V
- Coven Throne (if CA usable multiple times a round)
- Skeletons (max size for objectives)
- Blood Knights (MSU 5 per unit or 10+5; so at least 15 Blood Knights)
This still has around 400 pts left to spend. Battleline is already taken care of with the Blood Knights and the Skeletons. If the Coven Throne's CA is not usable on multiple units, I think we have to talk about its spot in that list. Vengorian Lord (because of Monster + Hero) or even another VLoZD are both viable options, I guess. For the rest of the list, Wolves, Bats or Vargheists are all neat.
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9 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Good catch! Might be worth considering in that case. They compete with Vargheists in Kastelai, though, which benefit more from the allegiance abilities of that subfaction.
I'm on the fence about what goes into the list, anyway. Vhordrai, a Coven Throne (given it can use its CA multiple times a turn), a big block or Skeletons/Zombies and two units of Blood Knights seem like the best core Kastelai can build around, but to me, there's no other auto-include apart from that, but there's still like 400 pts left. Wolves, Vargheists, Bats or a cheap hero on foot accompanying the Horde all seem like good options.
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2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I just find them so hard to put in lists when they are not battleline. In theory, I am not against including a fast unit of 5 summonables that does a few mortals, fights a bit and dies. At least that way, I can be fairly sure I have something to summon with Endless Legions fairly quickly. But in most of my recent lists I just don't have room for them. It's not like I can decide to swap out a unit of Direwolves for a unit of Black Knights outside Legion of Blood.
You can hypothetically play them instead of Dire Wolves in Kastelai. If you field like a block of Skeletons or Zombies and 2 Units of Blood Knights - which is likely - Battleline is taken care of, so you can freely choose the rest.
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Cogs only add 1" to Charges now. Bye, Cogs.
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1 minute ago, Furuzzolo said:
What's the hype around Coven Throne? 😮
I feel I am not getting something...
Multiple Command Points in AoS 3 with the great, great CA.
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AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion
in Death
Posted · Edited by AHexInScarletRed
See, I'd rather use Zombies than Skeletons in Kastelai, thematically and visually. I like the models better and I imagine a Kastelai Vampire swiftly raising their hand while riding, with the recently diseased following the motion and rising from their graves is a much more fitting take than the Vampire focusing their Necromantic Power to raise an army of long-dead Warriors. But I think that I'll hinder myself if I only take Zombies since they won't hang around for long while the rest of the army isn't big in numbers. Ideas on a Kastelai list with only Zombies as the Infantry? e: With either Vengorian Lord or Double Dragon; I think that the second Dragon fits better in terms of theme, but a Vengorian Lord would work, too.