PrimeElectrid
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Posts posted by PrimeElectrid
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2 hours ago, PJetski said:
Just finished recording a 4.5 hour podcast reviewing the new battletome. Hoping to get it edited and uploaded this weekend, look forward to it!
I’ve got 6 hours of SCE reviews queued up already and I’m ready for more 🤲
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6 hours ago, readercolin said:
Lets take a serious look at this. Reviewing just the GHB2021:
1. Marking Territory. This gives you 4 objectives on the edge of your territory, with victory going to whoever controls all of the objectives starting on turn 3 (notable, whoever loses the roll off gets to remove one of these objectives). This is a battleplan that gives you a strong incentive to have someone who is good at controlling objectives the ability to sit there - ex. vindictors in a stormkeep.
2. Savage Gains. You have 4 objectives, one on the edge of each players territory, and 2 in the middle. You don't really care about controlling "your" objective points wise, because it only gives you 1 point - but you care about preventing your opponent from getting it because it will be worth 4 points to them. This is a solid example of wanting to have something that will sit back to stay on your "home" objective.
3. First Blood. Deployment is in the corners, and you have 3 objectives along the diagonal. Standard score 1, score 2, score more. No real home objectives that you want to control, but you are likely to want to play it out with a light force on 1 objective and most of your army contesting your opponent on a second.
4. Power Struggle. You have 2 objectives on the border of each players territory, and 1 in the middle. You score if you control the objective for 2 consecutive turns. A solid battleplan where you want something to sit back on your home objectives.
5. Survival of the fittest. This is first blood, but the territories are slightly bigger and you get "predator" units. Once again, no real home objectives to sit on, but just like first blood you are likely to want to play it out with a light force on 1 objective and most of your army contesting the second. That being said, now your territory is touching the objectives, which means that stormkeep rules will always be giving your redeemers the ability to count as 3 on them.
6. Tectonic Interference. 3 objectives in a line on the center, one is worth an extra victory point (also, all are prime objectives so Ghur can't eat them). Very relevant here - stormkeep rules say anything that is partly or wholly in your territory, which means Stormkeep redeemers will always count for 3 models. The changing of the "alpha" objective means you are likely to be bouncing between objectives, but as with all of the 3 objective games, you are likely going to end up sitting a small force on one objective and then be fighting your opponent on the second with most of your army.
7. Apex Predators. Hey look, it is first blood/survival of the fittest again, but once again the deployment has changed, and this time the objectives can only be captured by leaders (either moving on, or killing an opponent's leader in melee to kick them off). Due to only leaders scoring, this is one where you don't care to have an objective sitter.
8. The Vice. You get 4 objectives, but they converge on the center. Here you DEFINITELY want to make sure you have something controlling your home objectives turns 1-3, because starting turn 4 you have only 1 objective you are fighting over. But, you still have "control 1, control 2, control more" for your victory points, meaning turn 4 and 5 you can only score a maximum of 2 points from strategy, while earlier turns you can potentially score 3 if you can kick your opponents off one of theirs.
9. Tooth and Nail. You get 4 objectives, with 2 on the border of your deployment. Also, no reserves, because we hate stormcast. Standard scoring, but one of the border objectives will be eaten by Ghur on turn 3. Likely way to play is to have something light that can hold your home objective, while you fight over the border objectives.
10. Feral Foray. You have 6 objectives, 3 in each players territory. Starting turn 2, you can raid your opponents objectives, score an extra point, and the objective goes away. VERY strong arguments to having solid objective sitters in this battle plan.
11. Power in Numbers. This is Feral Foray again, but now we have to decide to burn objectives for points based on how many turns we have held it. Also, battleline get priority in contesting objectives. Once again, a very strong argument for having some objective sitters.
12. Veins of Ghur. You start with 0 objectives, and after deployment you get 1 in on the line in the middle of the board. Then turn 3, objectives show up in yours and your opponents territory. You get points for each objective that you control, with points equal to the current battle round. Here you definitely want something to hold objectives, but at the same time, it either needs to be deployed on the sky and come down, or it needs to be fast enough to get to the objective depending upon where it lands. So we can say that we don't really want something that does nothing but stands on objectives.
So, lets count.
Battleplans that want you to sit on a "home" objective are: 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, and 11.
Battleplans that want you don't want objective sitters are: 3, 5, 7, 12
So, 8 battleplans reward you with having some objective sitters, and 4 don't. So 2/3rds of the battle plans will reward you for having a good objective holder in the back lines, though to varying degrees. If you are just playing a pickup game, I would recommend having at least 1 good objective sitter. If you are playing in a tournament though, you are going to want to look at what battleplans the tournament is running before deciding exactly how to build your force. If you have Power in Numbers of Feral Foray, you are likely going to want to consider having at least 2 good objective holders. For the other 6 battleplans that reward holding home objectives, you are likely going to want to have at least 1. And if your tournament is mostly built around the 4 that don't care to have objective sitters, then you can look to ignore that.
Good analysis, worth noting that Stormdrakes themselves count as 5 models each for scoring. But yeah I try to keep 5-10 Vindictors in my lists for this reason.
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Just now, Frowny said:
Are people worries about bleeding VPs with the dragon heavy lists? They are solid but they aren't indestructible at only 9 wounds you will lose several. Some lists I'm seeing can easily.be giving up 5 VPs just from losing drake knights. That's enough to win the battle but lose the war.
Put them in units of 4. Problem solved.
Current mood:
Army Name: Dragons
Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals
Army Type: Stormkeep
Subfaction: Hammers of Sigmar
Battlepack: Pitched Battles
Points Limit: 2000 ptsCore Battalions
Battle Regiment
Knight-Draconis (General)
Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
Battlefield Role: Leader
Points Cost: 255 pts
Stormdrake Guard
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Battlefield Role: Other
Reinforced: Once
Points Cost: 570 pts
Stormdrake Guard
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Battlefield Role: Other
Reinforced: Once
Points Cost: 570 pts
Lord-Relictor
Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
Battlefield Role: Leader
Points Cost: 145 pts
Knight-Incantor
Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
Battlefield Role: Leader
Points Cost: 125 pts
Vindictors
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Battlefield Role: Battleline
Points Cost: 130 ptsTotal Points: 1795 pts
205 points spare. Leaning vigilors to get that +1 to hit. Maybe a solo dragon. -
30 minutes ago, PJetski said:
You still want cheaper units you can leave behind on objectives and 3+ threats so your opponent doesn't instantly win the game if they neutralize your main threat.
I think Draconis + 1x4 is viable in competitive lists (leaves enough room for more threats) as a fast flying high damage anvil unit, or you can go all-in with 1x6 like the list I posted on the first page.
MSU drakes seems to be inefficient. Even with their great defensive stats they will still die to focused fire. Offensively they are underwhelming, and MSU is inefficient to buff. When you invest so many points in Drakes you need them to stay alive as long as possible; they're not HERO units so they can't use Heroic Recovery or Their Finest Hour, so they require AOD and external Save buffs/healing (Mystic Shield, Lifeswarm, Castellant) and those points start to add up quickly.
edit: Another reason to avoid MSU drakes is because killing a Drake each round is a free VP for your opponent
Just following on from this point, it’s worth noting that 1x4 and, for example, 2x2 is vulnerable to being Belakor’d or Kairos’d.
2x4 however isn’t as vulnerable as the above can only stop one (unless your opponent has both models 🤮).
Which isn’t to say that you want 2x4 but as PJ pointed out you want a 1x4 and something else so your eggs aren’t in one basket.
The counter to this is that it will be much easier to get 2 stormdrakes into a gap than 4 of them.
Scoring wise a unit of 10 vindictors in Stormkeeps should be sufficient. There’s not many battleplans with a back field objective anymore, let alone more than 1. Power in Numbers comes to mind as the major obvious one that punishes a list going heavy on alpha.
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It’s also deployed on the table so open to buffs from Castellant, Celestial Blades, mystic shield, and Blessed Weapons.
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33 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:
Taking Stormdrake out of this equation, what does this book look like? Idk, part of the disappointments feel like they stem from everyone focusing on the new dragons. If we're not comparing unit changes to dragons, how do they feel??
Points suck for some of the heroes but they're the quickest changes so while I'm disappointed at overcosting, if GW doesn't fix it I can always ask my opponent for some leeway since I prefer casual/narrative games. I'm most disappointed at how flat so many of the Stormhost abilities feel.
Imperatant/Annihilator Hammer bomb with Shield Annihilator spam in KE looks very attractive, usual caveats about Scions nonwithstanding. I’m committed to a monster mash army this edition, but if I wasn’t I’d be looking at this.
Charging Fulminators are also monstrous, there’s definitely an “alternate dragon” list here running them as battleline with Dracoths or Stardrakes.
Gardus HK Redeemer spam in Cities also seems promising in objective scoring. In and of itself if doesn’t have damage though (notably the mega checklist) so needs rounding out. Pack of Dracolines might go well in here actually.
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19 minutes ago, Marcvs said:
Apparently there's also an FAQ for the app which is almost comically evasive on future paywall
It’s genuinely hilarious how they can’t bring themselves to give a straight answer to anything. See also: how much is it?
Answer: the app is currently free but some of it won’t be free in the future but we won’t tell you what or how much except it’s part of a subscription service that we’re also trying to sell you but won’t tell you how much that is, even though that information is already out there.
Well I’m enlightened.
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Now I’m not so blinded by dragons it has sunk in that there’s only one way for melee units to interact with Scions of the Storm and that’s limited to one unit per turn, Thunderstrike only, with an Imperatant.
Once at a time is par for the course with this book, but I guess unlike with Gavriel you can keep doing this while you have stuff in Scions, whereas Sureheart was a one and done.
The Thunderstrike restriction is frustrating however, and it feels bad that there’s still only one way to buff a unit charge out of Scions. Just as before it was do it with Gav and Evocators or don’t bother, now it’s do it with Annihilators and an Imperatant or don’t bother. At least now we have an alternative in Stormkeeps, but why isn’t there more choice to interact with what is an allegiance ability? This was my exact same complaint with the 2nd Ed book and they’ve just repeated it with different units.
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Wrong thread.
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1 hour ago, loky100 said:
The thing I've been thinking about with Stormdrake guard is that its a monster so each one they kill they get 1 point.
This is a lot of points and they will kill a few of them. You bleeding so many points to your enemies with these.
Since games are a lot closer then before could be the swing that makes it a loss.
Just something I don't think many people are thinking about.It’s max one VP per player turn however, and 9W on a 3+ is not trivial to get through- especially if you go first and nuke their main damage unit on the off.
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2 hours ago, Nizrah said:
But wait. From Sacrosant:
Seqitors - better
Evocats - better
Evocators - worse but they were bonkers and probably deserved it
Castigators - better
Balist - better
Ordynator - better
Exorcist - better
Every incarnation of Lord Arcanum - better
So what are you talking about?
I’m not sure we can say better. Lots of abilities removed, some new ones added, and in both cases some of questionable value (lol Exorcist). Some points up, some down. Feels like sidegrades in a few places.
Dracolines are arguably the biggest beneficiary and they compete with Dragons. The wizards all lost something, but came down in points, and some of them do their thing a bit better. I think I prefer a cheaper LAoGC that teleports without vials and prime electrids (rip username)? I’m not sure. Think i prefer a more expensive Tauralon that has 2 casts though. Like I said hard to evaluate.
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9 hours ago, PJetski said:
Here's my second attempt
Hallowstrike - Hallowed Knights / Scions
Gardus
Incantor (Azyrite Halo)
Lord-Relictor (Translocation, CT: Reroll prayers, Arcane Tome: Celestial Blades)
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (Chain Lightning, Mount: Celestial Instincts)5x Liberators
5x Liberators
5x Liberators
10x Protectors (Unleash Thy Hatred)
6x Longstrikes (Thunderous Volley)1990/2000
Need Warlord battalion for the 2nd Holy Command
Was torn between Tauralon or something like Castigators x6 + Aetherwings, or an Endless Spell like Geminids/Shackles/Lifeswarm. Decided on the Tauralon for his speed, synergy with Saintly Assault, +1 Hit boost, Mount Trait, and MONSTER.
I don’t think you get any real benefit from Azyrite Halo without reroll saves. It’s also melee only now so meh.
Swap Celestial Blades to the Incantor and give the Tauralon the 5++ IMO.
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Hit me up with your best flying stand alternatives for Stormdrakes. Magnetised, resin, scenery bits, whatever you got let’s see it.
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Hello! New SCE book eligible?
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STD white dwarf update is out. GW still holding themselves back on faction battalions, battle tactics and GSG which is good.
Warcry units can take marks and be battleline
No changes to marks or archaon 🤷♂️
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The tomes look fine. Not 2nd edition Slaanesh v1, but also not 2nd edition Slaanesh v2 either, so that’s good.
The problem, especially with the SCE one, is that it’s just bland. 3/3/-1/1 everywhere. Tons of abilities removed, leaving various degrees of +1 to hit/exploding 6s. Use a CA for free. Do a thing once per game. Solid fundamentals for sure but nothing exciting. Which I guess we’ve been asking for? IDK how to feel about this.
When we get to the point that everyone has a 3.0 tome and IF GW can restrain themselves on the faction stuff the game should end up in a great place. The problem, as ever, is that we play the game as it is now, not as it is in the future. SCE can use one faction CA once per game, meanwhile over here gargants are still standing on objectives and winning games and Tzeentch Archaon is still winning events by changing everyone’s dice. That being said I’d rather use this tome than the v2 one.I’m also not convinced that GW can continue to hold themselves back (track record says no), and I’m concerned there will be an overreaction from the community to spice things up, which leads us back to Slaanesh v1 as the worst extreme.
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15 hours ago, Nizrah said:
My friend just beated 2k points of SoB (4 big giants) with 1550 of new drakes (2x4 drakes, Drake Lord and Castelant)
LMAOThis game available to watch anywhere?
was it 2 units of 4 dragons?
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Aha there was indeed a rogue AOA still on the stormdrake guard. This levels it off.
I think it’s important to show the full spread as comparisons to a 6+ skew the results. I’m much more interested in 2+/3+ saves these days.
There is a very good point being made that it’s quite hard to buff Stormdrakes while Dracolines come with it inherently. Most SCE buffs are to the unit itself with only a small number targeted at an enemy and, as far as I can see, almost no aura buffs that work on Stormdrakes at all (Tauralon +1 to hit is all I can find). This encourages one large unit of Stormdrakes (4+) more than smaller units, which has its own cost/benefit.
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2 hours ago, PJetski said:
You still need bodies for objectives, shooting to tear down screens, and the right support.
That’s why you run them in stormkeeps where redeemer units count as x3 and one unit of 10 vindictors is sat on an objective counting as 30.
1 hour ago, PJetski said:Having to take the Menagerie Command Trait is an opportunity cost, because you give up another taking another Command Trait.
The Knight-Draconis is support. He is not worth 255 points without at least 1 unit of Stormdrakes in your list to take advantage of the breath double tap.
There is 0 opportunity cost with Menagerie Command Trait. Have you seen the other ones?
The Knight draconis is 5 attacks rend 3. He isn’t no slouch support unit.
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Not sure why you’re comparing this to 6+ saves honestly especially in the era of save stacking.
Anyway unbuffed and without shooting or mortals both units are very close.
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12 minutes ago, schwabbele said:
Any reason for having 20 vindictors other then just pure greed because they are dirt cheap right now?
Yeah 60 scoring models with a 6+ ward in hammers, or fighting when killed in hallowed knights
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4 minutes ago, Nizrah said:
Im right that we loose every source of reroll 1 to hit?
AFAIK yes
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10 minutes ago, Champasaur said:
Do you think a list needs a spellcaster of some sort? I know spells are tough to get off unless you have an S tier caster right now, but I feel so guilty not running one 🥺
Not really no. Obviously mystic shield is nice but like you said unless you can get a super wizard with bonuses to cast you’re going to fail or get shut down a lot.
The Knight Judicator could indeed be a Knight Incantor.
Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
No Stormcast preorder next week