PrimeElectrid
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Posts posted by PrimeElectrid
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4 minutes ago, NorthernNurgling said:
I would argue that the only surprise here is the fact that the High Elves have joined forces with pokemon. When they said more to come I thought of dragon princes, bolt throwers, dare I say the re-release of the skycutter... I think the initial release should have clearly stated that the Hyshian spirits would be non-aelfs. Even if the first battletome had artwork in it that could signpost the direction the range would take... Before anyone says Swordmasters, I know, they are coming too. But when I collect a faction, I want to be happy with 90% of the range.
My point is, anyone wanting to pick up some nostalgic High Elves could not have expected the faction to expand in this way. Personally I hoped the Mountain Spirit was a bizarre one-off... If you love the new models, fine. They are certainly well-made and I don't have an issue with their price, or their release schedule. I just think the initial release was misleading. It's just like... my opinion, man...
The relationship with Hysh spirits is quite clearly stated throughout the LRL background
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35 minutes ago, NorthernNurgling said:
Don't you think that if GW had the whole "2-wave release" mapped out they could have made it more explicit to give people a choice in how they approached the new faction? And don't you think the initial release could have had a more representative mix of model styles?
Of course it was mapped out. Production and development cycles don’t spring into life overnight. GW knew this at least 2 years ago when they finalised the (then) Spring 2020 LRL release.
The release was also pretty explicit that there was more to come. It was announced up front that Teclis was leading the vanguard while Tyrion hadn’t taken to the field. The LRL background talked about other Temples (and Nations) that didn’t have rules or models. Then there are plenty of rules that favour models that didn’t exist (specifically combat heroes).
The only surprise here is the timeframe (RIP SCE chambers teased three (four?) years ago)
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Q: Can Cities of Sigmar units in a Stormkeep army benefit from subfaction command abilities such as ‘Heroes of Another Age’ from the Anvils of the Heldenhammer Stormhost?
A: No.
lmao SCE can’t have nice things
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They delayed the winter update by more than a month to tell us we get nothing on a flimsy pretext that doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny?
That’s a bold move Cotton.
Edit: The advantage is that we can’t play for another 6 months anyway so it’s not like it matters.
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2 minutes ago, Yokai said:
Huh, a Cursed City preview with the witch hunter fellow went up briefly on WarCom, then disappeared again. Anyone managed to catch it? Something about silver bullets and stakes burning the undead "alive", as far as I saw.
It’s still linked on WarCom twitter
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48 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:
The silhouette seems a Chaos Warrior to me.
EDIT: the model bears one weapon in each hand... hmmm... could it be an Underworlds warband?
The scales look faintly Cold One like similar to Knights or Corsair cloaks. Could just be generic monster scales.
The downwards arrow on the dagger also looks faintly reminiscent of Dark aelf weaponry.
Pretty sure this is a mutated chaos warrior but that’s just enough straw clutching for malerion hype.
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Hmm... there’s something here with the Stormkeep patrol teleport and Celestial Warbringers Fearless Foresight, I think. Due to sequencing you can teleport forwards, then if enemy takes the first turn, Foresight away to safety.
This gets around the downside with Astral Templars Dauntless Hunters which often left your units exposed.
Given the battalion uses Redeemer there may be value to 20 Sequitors again used this way.
Not sure how the rest of the list would look as Ballista lose a lot without Scions. Perhaps there are some good shooting units in CoS?
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37 minutes ago, PJetski said:
The battalion uses any JUSTICAR unit so you can also use vanguard raptors. Hurricanes don't have the range to make use of the anvils command ability. +1 hit is still somewhat useful for Longstrikes to mitigate the common hit debuffs. Judicators have both the range and always benefit from +1 hit, but they don't move Aetherwings.
With Staunch and Stand Fast Liberators have +2 to saves all the time so you may not even need Aetherwings any more
Bringing a Cities unit as your general allows you to take Staunch Defender even if you pick a stormhost (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this) so I hope everyone has a frostheart Phoenix ready to go.
This book is a big deal for competitive stormcast!
What’s so good about frostheart?
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I really don’t know if it’s going to be worth giving up Scions for some of this, especially as the battalions involve extra cost.
Pay for the batallion to get +1 to hit on Raptors, and have to take Paladins, or... just use those points to take more Raptors.
Any neat uses of CoS units to shore up the usual weaknesses? (Battleline & numbers).
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40 minutes ago, PJetski said:
COS units added to your army are not allies, therefore a COS Leader unit added to your army in this way can be your general just like any other Leader.
When you select a Stormhost only STORMCAST ETERNALS units get the associated <STORMHOST> keyword so the COS unit does not gain this keyword.
A <STORMHOST> general has to take the stormhost command ability, but if you don't have the <STORMHOST> keyword then you don't have to take that ability. Therefore, if a COS unit is your general through Stormkeep then it can take whatever command trait you want. Stormhost artefacts work the same way.
Finally, none of the Stormcast command abilities have a STORMCAST ETERNAL keyword restriction, so they can be given to any model that is your general.
Therefore if Stormkeeps work with Stormhosts (and that seems to be the case right now, but it's not confirmed yet) then you can make a COS unit your general and have them take Staunch Defender (and an artefact, like mirrorshield) even if you take a Stormhost.
Aha. So as it’s a Stormcast army you can select a command trait from SCE allegiance, and as the general is not an ally they are eligible, even if they don’t have the Stormcast keyword.
Interesting, though thematically disappointing.
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1 hour ago, PJetski said:
I'm not so sure that Stormkeeps and Stormhosts are mutually exclusive. It could be a faction split like Coalesced/Starborne for Seraphon.
You can't use any Stormhost command abilities on a COS unit because it doesn't gain the appropriate <Stormhost> keyword, but you can make the COS unit your general and avoid having to take the required artefacts/command traits from a Stormhost.
This means you can take Staunch Defender as Anvils
How does that work then?
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50 minutes ago, Popisdead said:
Pretty sure the White Dwarf has returned twice no?
I understand from the 4chan thread (deleted by now) it's Umbraneth Aelves and Malarion. I suspect Kurnothi may be spring 2022.
4chan thread? Go on.
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So nobody saw that a Gav bomb won a 5 game event at the weekend? Fjordhammer GT.
Good use of allies to increase drops for the sky and apply board presence (screening and shooting). Also means there is nothing valuable on the table.
Anyone know what battleplans were played? Was Total Commitment or any of the ones with bonus VP for battleline/hero/monster in play?
list was:
Relictor
Lord-Ordinator
Gavriel
3x5 Libs
10 Evocator
3x Ballista
3x Longstrikes
2x3 Aetherwings
10 Skinks
10 Wardens
10 Sentinels
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6 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:
So, I love Avalenor but wasn’t the biggest fan of his pose so, using parts of the generic poses for the arms, and the more serene mask of the generic ones, I reposed him somewhat to look a little cooler to me. Really happy with how he turned out.
This is the one. Nobody will build it the normal way now. Well done!
Any chance of a head size comparison to a Manticore or White Lion? Thinking about head swaps for the mountain
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Has anyone tried out a 3-4 cow full Ymetrica list yet? Was it fun? Good?
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It’s peculiar that GW nerf PE resilience immediately after releasing an army that can ignore rend 2 and boost to 2+/3+ saves. Oh well.
The way I see it, this change makes no difference to MW vulnerability, so no change there. It slightly increases vulnerability to ranged rend (+/- Katakros), but those were going to be tough anyway so 🤷♂️
It makes games against melee armies a little more dynamic, rather than simply bouncing off Mortek walls, so that’s good.
Not that it matters all that much. By the time coronavrius starts to ease and the competitive scene starts up in earnest the whole meta will have changed anyway. We’ll have at least one new release (Sons) if not more, and hopefully the winter FAQs to hit ranged armies with the nerf bat (looking at you, Kroak).
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You need to be able to get it down to 1 or 2 drops, else the opponent takes T1 and hits your exposed 4+ AS units with everything they’ve got. Remember you have to vanguard before knowing who goes first.
Im thinking specifically shooting lists, but also melee armies as you are 6” closer to them making a charge feasible to many even on 24” deployments.
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10 minutes ago, woolf said:
was about to say the same. and also Katakross eats a discipline point for handing out the buff (although he comes with a bunch). before Katakros was stronger in Petrifex than his own legion which was weird.
I mean if you took Katakros he was using his CA all the time anyway (and he comes with 5).
20 minutes ago, Galas said:You are right, 36" until he receives 3 wounds. Still, not the same. Hes a 600 point model with a 4"move.
500 points, with +3 move CA, and a large base, and a 3W self heal.
Yeah there’s a little more nuance to it, but biggest loss is Bludgeon (partly offset by gaining access to Zandtos in Mortis).
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3 minutes ago, Galas said:
Being wholly within 18" of a pretty expensive model is not the same as "lol +1 unconditional save for all of the army lol"
It’s 36” (at top bracket)
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... You know everyone will just switch to Mortis Praetorians and get +1 save from Katakros, right?
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2 minutes ago, Turragor said:
I like how @PrimeElectrid applied a logical thought process to list building and I think you pose a good question in the follow up. I like how a buffed Stardrake will hold up some decent melee armies -
I basically apply this logic (though right now the potential great artefact is the new ignore rend 1 realm artefact (if it is allowed by a TO). The cost here is much more than 280 though - 420 for a templar (tempest axe stopping pileins at 1" is good) but an LCoSD ticks more survivability boxes. Though you always need to add a Castellant - so the cost IS prohibitive and for this reason once you add a drake you're back to a "drake list".
I'll go back to my corner now and stop trying to make ppl play Stardrakes
I think Stardrakes may have a place in GHB20, I just lean to the Tauralon because it gets you a cheaper monster leader, doesn’t require 5 wound support hero, and unlocks Sequitors as the only battleline which have a fighting chance against other battleline.
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1 hour ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:
Just became curious after looking at your list. How would you react against steamroller combat armies? Orruks, fyreslayers, Ogors, DoK for example. Sequitors are just slightly better(and expensive) liberators, and I never expect them to hold against moderately good combat units.
I understand your reasoning for excluding 5~6 wound heroes. But the problem is that you are limiting even more options for SCE by doing so.
Heraldor provides valuable source of AoE mortal wounds and extra mobility. Castellant gives that sweet modifier to saves. Incantor has her voidstorm scrolls to deny a spell at critical moment. Take these away and SCE are left with slower and more fragile units.
Your list also gives up what I believe is still the bread and butter of SCE: evocators of both variants, dracothian guard and long range shooting. Sure, Celestant Prime and Kroak can burst out mortal wounds. But Celestant Prime is just still too fragile. And I strongly doubt Lord arcanum can achieve anything meaningful at the critical moment, mostly due to severe lack of modifier for casting values.
Yes fair counter points.
i just feel that 5 wound support heroes are too much of a liability. Playing against OBR or LRL (both of whom are extremely popular) it is trivially easy to clear them in one turn, let alone Seraphon, Cities, KO or Tzeentch. Yes it’s a shame that SCE rely so much on support hero synergy; which is why I’m trying to identify a list that does so as little as possible.
This may not be achievable, but I think it’s worth it exploring to be sure.
As an OBR player, looking at SCE I would identify those support heroes and clear them ASAP, because it’s evident how crucial they are to SCE strategy.
Edit: Oh, hey. Aurulan Sentinels are only 280 for 20 and do the same job as Longstrikes (outside of Anvils) but better. We can slot them into our 1240 base to get to 1520. That now leaves us 480 points to pick up some supporting combat units. It is in fact enough for 10 Evocators, but I’m a bit wary of adding more foot infantry. 4x Dracothian Guard would fit in here though.
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So thinking further about GHB20 lists, let’s try and see what we can do.
A few assumptions:
1) Battleline, Leader and Monster/Behemoths are good. We want to try and take these, and also need to be conscious that the opponent will field lots of these also (and also lots of counters to them).
2) 5 wound support heroes are in a lot of trouble and we should minimise these as much as possible
3) Better Part of Valour and Total Commitment make it unwise to utilise min Libs or rely too strongly on Scions.
2 & 3 feel like the final nail to Gav bombs. Not only is it easily countered by screening, but you have to invest 100-200 points in additional 5 wound support heroes in case Total Commitment comes up (which are likely to then be shot off the board turn 1).
My starting point is actually the Tauralon. This is now 280 points, which is only 20 higher than the gryph charger started (lol), for a 10 wound leader & monster that flies (#1 & #2). Staunch Defender gets it to 2+, mirror shield makes him -2 to hit by missile weapons, and with Steel Pinions a 6+ after save. That actually covers most of our bases.
Importantly, this also unlocks Sequitors, which is the only battleline capable of contesting objectives in Better Part of Valour (fulfilling #1 and #3). The Tauralon also gives them +2 run (good for getting on objectives) and it’s wide base size makes it easier to pass Staunch (without relying on a Castellant, because #2). We could add a Heraldor to further take advantage of the CA, but again #2.
Now, we could just take 3x big blocks of Sequitors. While they aren’t nearly as tough as they used to be, 120 wounds with a 4+ (sometimes rerolling) is still a lot to get rid of. But as anyone who has played Sequitors will know, those bricks are tough to manoeuvre, and 1” grand hammers is not ideal. There’s also no longer any points advantage to going big, and you get more grandhammers (and attacks) from the Prime. So perhaps 1x20 (for anvil duty) and 2x10 for board coverage? Or even 4x10. Probably no right answers here.
(We could also explore the use of a large Judicator unit here. A bit of a liability in Better Part of Valour as they have little hope of attacking, but perhaps could sit on one to defend it).
So now we’ve spent 1240 points. What next? Steering clear of 5 wound heroes, we could add in a Stardrake or Drakesworn Templar (more leader monsters with fly). I don’t think we should chase leader/monsters too hard though (as they aren’t very good, and the Stardrakes in particular rely on more 5w support heroes). Also, we don’t as yet have anything to really fight enemy leaders/monsters.
At this point we could consider slotting in a LO ballista battery with Knight Azyros (680 points) or some Longstrikes with an Azyros and birds (650 points). Yes, this means 5 wound support heroes: but the advantage here is they can be hidden off board and still contribute (not the case for others whose abilities go off in the hero phase). TC is still a liability but partly compensated by the range of the shooting units (eg deploying ballista 39” away from their targets and single shotting).
We could also go the other way and, for 400 points, pick up the Prime and Comet for low-risk (due to range) MW splash damage.
The idea in either case is to kill leaders/behemoths, or otherwise soften them and battleline, so that the Sequitors have a chance of clearing them.
Note that I have specifically avoided Evocators, Dracoths and Paladins because they are not battleline/leaders/monsters (#1), or rely too heavily on support heroes that have to be on the board (#2 & #3). But perhaps we can slot in a small support unit alongside the Prime/Comet combo.
What do people think of this reasoning so far?
Oh I forgot about Kroak of course.Tauralon
Celestant Prime
Kroak
4x10 Sequitors
Comet
Balewind
2000 exactly
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1 hour ago, CorvoMaltes said:
Shoot the monsters, magic to the heroes and heavy hitting units for the mortek. Or just go for the objective with everyhting you have. And remember, the harvester has to be within 3 inches to the unit to revive it. And about magic, fyreslayer have none, just one mortal wounds anti horde prayer, I´m pretty sure SCE have something similar.
Ballistas are too unreliable for my taste. I understand that you´re playing on table, so getting better units is gonna be expensive. You should try playing on tabletop simulator, that way you will learn which units work better. Also remember, mortek can´t reroll saves on shootings. Bonereapers are very slow, except for the cavalry. Once you control one victory point, it´s yours until your enemy gets it. So sitting around VP isn´t worth it. You should just try to hit one of your enemies VP with everuthing you have, after you´ve dealt with the cavalry. Don´t try to kill everything, the main objective is controlling the victory points.
I get that you’re trying to be constructive, but in Better Part of Valour you lose the objective if your battleline unit isn’t within 3” of it.
An OBR player going first simply points their crawlers at a unit of Liberators turn one. You now need to remove two of their battleline units to win, while also keeping your remaining two squads of Liberators alive until the end of the game. That is a lot to ask.
Do you feel cheated?
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
There’s no misunderstanding. You quite clearly state you hoped that the Mountain Spirit was a one off, when all the LrL background tells you otherwise 🤷♂️