Aren73

May 13, 2021

Vargheists are better...

Wow though...seems they took LoN, changed very little, slapped some new allegiance abilities on it and called it done.

Dammit I knew it was a bad sign as soon as I saw that the model lineup had extremely few new units.

May 12, 2021

2 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Its decent enough in my book. Definitely some aspects I'd change. If the top half had been normal size i think it may have appealed to me more.

Its strange to have these new vamps but no new minions for said bloodlines. I was really surprised to not see a box of Vyrkos Blood Born released. Id bet on a future release.

Sadly I think we're all slowly coming around to the realisation that a lot of the Cursed City units only exist in the Cursed City.

On the topic of the Vengorian - I see the appeal of a normal size top half. However, if it had been then the model would be hardly bigger than a Vargheist. But yeah, the large upper half definitely takes some getting used to.

May 12, 2021

18 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

And while we are at it, the whole bin guy/sin guy thing is garbage, too. There is no reason to suspect it's really how GW rules writing works, and especially no reason to conclude that "not obviously broken" implies "not sin guy" implies "bin guy" implies "trash book".

Wait, you're telling me bin guy isn't a meme?

So all this time I was thinking of Oscar from the Muppets jumping out to write the battletome whenever it's time to write rules for vampires...is a lie?

May 12, 2021

22 minutes ago, Sception said:

Oh, yeah, it absolutely needs an faq, but I feel confident about the apparent intent and fully espect the faq to come down in their favor on this point. For the same reason I'm confident that the mounted vamp lord option will remain even without a new model. The Blood Knight kit's a big deal. GW wants people to buy them.

While that's a good point, I would say that if GW were desperate for people to buy them, all they'd have to do would be to give them -2 rend on the charge.

That one simple addition, which is common for lance cavalry in other armies, would have made them an extremely valuable pick for most Soulblight Gravelord armies.

From my perspective, that'd make the Blood Knight rules go from decent to good. Of course, that all depends on their points.

And yeah, we've laboured that point enough, I don't want to start another rend discussion, it's just an example of where sometimes it seems to me GW is pulling in opposite directions at once.

May 12, 2021

6 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Seeing how this is a speculation thread:

1) Vampire lords will be based around the single real model for a non-named vampire they made in plastic: the vampire lord will most likely be nerfed significantly, but I wouldn't trust GW to adjust the points cost accordingly.

2) I'm reading a lot of rules previews that are not that different from what they used to be, or new sub-factions that are sidegrades from the old subfactions.

3) I'm reading rules of the strongest/most reliable LoN abiltity being replaced by random dice rolls for half the effect it used to be.

And the brutal assessment is: we drew bin guy to re-write the LoN book.

sorry if this bursts the excitement you might have for this new book... But I'm really not that optimistic that the issues facing the old LoN are in any way addressed with these small rules previews. I'm hoping to be proved wrong however.

I think this is a bit pessimistic. Though you're right on with the sidegrades for subfactions, I agree there.

When it comes to the LoN gravesite ability - I see it as a good thing. Yeah it's less reliable and not as good, but perhaps the faction will rely less on it, maybe the warscrolls or abilities will be buffed? After all, the Blood Knight Nightmare steeds did get 1 extra attack!

Nah in all seriousness though, the warscrolls and warscroll abilities that we have seen have all been buffs (albeit only slight ones in some instances). I don't expect any warscroll to be nerfed, in fact I expect to see small to medium buffs on most warscrolls, with one or two seeing major power increase.

May 12, 2021

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

Even if people are able to organize well enough to split boxes 5 ways for lords, that's still going to be more sales gained by keeping the option than they'd lose that way, especially since, again, nothing stops them from putting the mannfred model back up on the store whenever they want. I know GW can be dumb sometimes, but I'll honestly be surprised if they remove the mounted vamp lord option.

Haha I meant that more as a "I'm up for doing this pro-hobby-community thing together" than "This is a reason why GW sales will be lower"

May 12, 2021

What I was going to suggest actually is that we could get groups of 5 people together, to split a BK kit between them so that they all get to make a mounted vampire lord without having to pay for the whole box and be stuck with an awkward 4 Blood Knights.

Could do it through either thread or on FB, whatever works. Sound like something people would be willing to do?

May 12, 2021

Seeing as this is a speculation thread too, what do we think on the mounted vampire lord option - is it staying or going?

Technically the Mannfred model exists, however I don't see it on GW site anymore.

But perhaps GW expects us to kitbash a mounted vampire lord from the Blood Knight box?

What do you think?

May 12, 2021

5 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

oh ok looks like a fun gimmick but will not see play oin competetive envirements. 340 points and a wastet command trait for that gimmick? not worth

Nah, this fun little gimmick will win games and will 100% make competitive lists. Not every list, not by a long shot, but it will definitely feature in tournaments assuming all other factors are reasonable/within expectation.

May 12, 2021

4 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Really not liking the new Manfred hiding ability. While it is true that almost all battletomes in theory have answers for many actual lists he will be quite unkillable.

The 'just go for objectives thing' is also not fair-his ability is also incredible for controlling objectives. For example, put him 3 inches infront of enemy battlelines to severely shorten their movement, only to fall back into an objective. Or charge a corner of an enemy to pin them, knowing if you are charged you are safe. Or even teleporting onto an enemy backline objective. And all without any way to stop him at all. Also, with likely easy access to at least some healing, even chip damage from incidental mortals/a few spells won't do it at all.

Armies with almost no counterplay to him-

Sylvaneth (low damage spells, bow hunters are terrible)

Nighthaunt (easily dispelled low damage magic, only 2 ranged spells, 10+ charges are unreliable at best)

Fyreslayers (i guess auric hearth guard? A few prayers will never get it done consistently)

FEC (buff magic, no shooting)

Iron jaws (low damage magic, no ranged units)

Thorne (prayers would take prohibitively long and good luck to manage, the cannons are terrible)

Nurgle (some magic bit can likely be healed through or dispelled and certainly can't get rid of him in a timely manner)

There are also interesting played lists for most armies that can't deal with him-while the battletomes as a whole has answers, it's perfectly possible to see an idoneth list with a single turtle for shooting, slaanesh with no archers, DOK with no snake archers or many other fun fluffy lists that simply will never kill him.

That ability alone on a 10w/4+ save model is worth like 200pts. The LRL foxes actually have a worse version of this abilitythan his and are pretty usable, and cost 250/300 pts. Remember, even if he isn't an amazing combatant, he will still be solid, at least a 2 cast wizard and some sort of command ability.

I like that they removed some of the other npl in the 1cp resurrections, but I certainly hope there are other limits on that ability than we've seen because from what we know now this is likely to be another one.

I know, right? Isn't it wonderful?
*rubs hands in glee

May 12, 2021

That just reminds me that I held out hope for Vlad or Abhorash being in this book.

Geez I'm a clown

May 12, 2021

On that note, I do wonder what our magic bloodline will be. Probably not Kastelai, doesn't look to be Legion of Night either, I very much doubt it would be Avengorii which leaves us with Legion of Blood and Vyrkos.

Or, we might not get a magic heavy subfaction at all.

May 12, 2021

9 minutes ago, NicholasFlamelGames said:

I was really surprised how much I enjoyed it. I loved it so much I was really tempted to buy a LON army right then and there but I had a feeling new models were coming. One of the fantastic things about the book without spoilers is one of the main characters is a Black Knight and the skeletons get a ton of character. I enjoyed it much more than Ulfenkarn.

I tend to not get worried or put too much thought into things until I see the entire tome and warscrolls etc but I understand that when you put a ton of money and time into your minis you want them to have strong rules. I have really liked what I have seen so far.

Usually when approaching things like this, my biggest interest is in units performing similarly to how they would in the lore.

I'm mainly concerned with things not being a flavour fail, for strong units to be strong, fast ones to be fast etc.

Which is why, for example, I get worried when it's looking like Blood Knights may not be our go-to tough unit/hero/monster hunters.

To me, the writers have failed even if the rules don't line up with the lore, even if the book ends up being strong.

That said, I usually have a lot of leeway and can happily ignore things not being perfect. But I guess that's where the emphasis is for me.

May 12, 2021

Yeah, I wouldn't say that people having strong reactions = good book.

I think it mostly just means that GW is trying things that are perhaps unexpected, or we don't know entirely how to put into context yet. No wonder, most of the book is unknown.

Rather, the more I see the more I'm thinking that they have tweaked LoN rather than rewritten Vampire Counts.

May 12, 2021

2 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

I do find it funny the polarizing takes people have on the various Bloodlines / information that has been released thus far. I've seen lots of love and hate for just about everything and honestly I think that is good. I have yet to see something from Gravelords that everyone absolutely is in love with or absolutely hates. That means it has a strong appeal to a set of people. If everyone unilaterally hated / loved something then it would be because GW made compromises and settled with a conservative approach rather than pushing the design (both visually and through rules/warscrolls). All of this is great.

I was about to bring that up. The diversity in reactions to the new rules is quite fun to see.

Also very amusing, seeing as a lot of the rules they've shown us are unchanged

May 12, 2021

1 minute ago, Sception said:

Geeze, bait the enemy into charging mannfred, teleport away in their combat phase, and the next turn you're still free to move and easily charge. The more I think about it, the more I really, really like this rule on mannfred.

Urge to paint... rising......

That one rule singlehandedly informs a whole 2k list.

May 12, 2021

4 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Now imagine you're an ironjaws player lol.

He has always been one of my favourite lords in warhammer since the fantasy days, was just hoping for some cool rules to make him useful, not troll rules.

Either way I'm still gonna use him lol.

I used to be all for fair matchups and non-broken rules like you. Then I got a bastiladon heavy army in the knee.

Now, I just want payback.

May 12, 2021

Nah the teleport is pretty good. It means he can't ever die in combat unless you gamble.

I think it suits him and means you are free to charge him in to buff his magic while not worrying for him.

Or you can use him as an amazing charge blocker. Pop him in front of your valuable units, forcing enemies to charge him instead. Then teleport him away and counter-charge in your turn.

It is a very useful rule.

May 12, 2021

1 minute ago, Liquidsteel said:

Battleline Terrorgheists/Zombie Dragons is fine on it's own, but I reeeeally hope it's not the main gimmick for Avengorii.

I'm coming over from FEC, I didn't play battleline dragons there either.

Unless they really boost the units it could be a bit of a miss.

I'm fine with the battleline choices there, I was always going to field some skeletons and a terrorgheist so I'll be able to make the battleline requirements either way.

I just hope that the bloodline buffs more than just big monsters.

Or put another way - Legion of Night may have the quantity of Vargheists, due to them being battleline. But I hope that the Avengorii have the quality Vargheists (+1A/+1 to hit/+1D whatever it might be).

May 12, 2021

@Clan's Cynic - possible definitely, though unlikely.

The way I've found these things usually go, every subfaction has their flavour of battleline that isn't repeated across other subfactions.

May 12, 2021

1 minute ago, Sception said:

It's nice in principle, but forcing it results in weird things like Avengorii not getting battleline Vargheists since Mannfred already stole them and Neferata getting battleline Black Knights even though her forces have never been characterized as particularly cavalry heavy.

Yup.

I was hoping to really dig my claws into this new bloodline that GW have come up with but if it's just going to be Strigoi monster-mash then I'm not really interested.

Still, holding out hope that Avengorii doesn't just benefit T-gheists and Zombie Dragons, but also bumps up Vargheists and Vengorian Lords.

May 12, 2021

Just now, Erdemo86 said:

Who is Mannfreds biggest rival, we get to see tomorrow?

Himself, surely.

Can't think of anyone else who messes up his plans more.

May 12, 2021

Well, seems not much has changed, but that teleport looks mighty fun.

It's very much an ability of "unless you prepare for it this is going to seriously troll you".

Battleline Vargheists were expected and are very much welcome.

May 12, 2021

2 minutes ago, Aturox said:

I am really looking forward to the new fellbat rules! Hope they pack some punch considering their awesome new models 😍

Still consider buying them on my first purchase 😬 Same with lauka vai

Been refreshing the WC page nonstop the past few days 😅

I'm with you.

Though I do find it amusing that it is fell bats and not our more "hammer" type units that we're hoping to see big damage from

Nah, seriously though I am hoping to see some drastic changes to how they work, giving them some function that is unique.
For example, maybe they could become excellent ranged unit hunters or mage killers. Or get some swooping grab ability where they grab enemies and drop them from the air (something like: against 1 wound enemy models, for every 6 to hit you do 1 mortal wound for that attack instead of normal damage)?

They're lovely models, now just give me a reason to use them.

May 12, 2021

7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

If our magic is still good, maybe it's mortal wounds.

Otherwise, rend -1 hammers can muscle past 3+ saves no problem when buffed. Maybe Grave Guard get mortal wounds on wound, if so they will be can openers.

According to that one leak they are probably not in the book anymore, thought.

I'm worried about Leviadons and Bastiladons here really.

I am hopeful that our mortal wound output is good, though I hope it's not all based on spells - you should be able to run Soulblight without a heavy spell focus.

Grave guard with mortal wounds sound good though, or those super powerful, armour piercing fell bats

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