Aren73

One can dream... Previously I've said I don't think such a thing is at all likely to happen. Now I'm here desperately hoping it will. It's best to assume we won't, not to think about it, not to speculate, not to talk about it or mention it in any way. Because when it doesn't come (as is most likely) then at least we can keep our sanity. We have a book. That book can make playable lists. Let's make those lists, play them and enjoy the faction for what it is. And if we DO get the LRL treatment...well, we'll be a bunch of lucky undead.

I agree, having a Vampire ....Count (I know I know) in the book too, who is a beefier, more customisable Vampire Lord, would be ideal. One could argue that's what Vengorian Lords are but I disagree, in terms of lore and theme they're very different, more bestial and don't have any more customisation. It always grinds my gears when there are lots of rules and lots of profiles that do exactly the same thing, but are called different. It feels like fake variety which in my eyes is even worse than no variety. A lot of GW books, profiles and rules feel like that: they're repeated across armies and books, just they have a different name in each one. It's probably much easier to balance and leads to a better meta and whatnot but...eh, definitely not as interesting. But that's the state of AoS and 40k now, no use me complaining about it, it's just what the games are. Instead, I now really want that Vampire Count, it would be so on theme! Also a bit tongue-in-cheek, which undead have always been (Warhammer has always been tbh).

Nah, all we have is that there are some armies with good battalions and some with not so good and GW wants to level the playing field a bit. For all we know they'll just add a bunch of new universal ones in the book and call it done. I really hope they don't get rid of them, I really like the Fellwing Flock - I'm a huge fan of Vargheists and the Fell Bats models are lovely, plus it's a nice little buff. I was really happy when I saw that in the book and I hope it stays for matched play.

Yeah that is a punch in the gut. I'd rather they weren't in the book, then at least we wouldn't have to be reminded every time we open it... And yeah, I am very much a single issue person with this. I played Vampire Counts for the Vampire Lords in it, I was hoping that I could take similar enjoyment from AoS, it didn't happen with LoN but I had high hopes for Soulblight Gravelords. BUT Vengorian lords do have a lot of that flavour I was missing from Vampire lords. So there is that. Honestly a Vengorian Lord is one of the paths I was hoping to be able to take with a vampire lord. It's a shame there aren't multiple paths like that but at least one exists. So no, I'm not as salty as I was previously, I will just run Vengorian Lords instead of Vampire Lords until Vampire Lords get the customisation options they deserve.

Creativity, inspiration whatever you'd like to call it - what I mean is the amount of thematic rules in the book, on the allegiance abilities and warscrolls. Our faction abilities and are ok, some are more thematic than others. The warscrolls however, a lot of them are sadly quite bland. What makes a warscroll thematic (to me) is th special abilities and spells on it. The current iteration of the Vampire Lord is especially bad for this - he has the same cookie cutter profile as any vampire in the book. That's not just any vampire lord, but any vampire, even Vargheists, they all swing more or less the same. On top of that the Vampire Lord has no special rules to distinguish him as a vampire lord, except the hunger which again every vampire has. He can cast magic but has no unique spell and has a command ability which while nice is a pretty generic command ability seen again and again. The vampire lord doesn't feel much like a lord, instead it comes of as any other vampire in the book. I don't think they got very creative with the lord - hence why I said lack of creativity. I mean even our old warscroll had more flavour with the flying horror, nightmare steed and the chalice there. I feel like more could have been done with them, that's all. Zombies and skeletons got some really cool rules changes and they feel very on theme, there's some real vision there. I just do not see the same strength of vision for the lord or the fell bats. For Black Knights I think they tried but didn't change them enough - leaving them in an awkward spot where it would have been better had they not tried. For me it's not a bad book, it's just a bit bland.

Boys and girls we have found the use for fell bats!

I don't think AoS 3.0 will change any of the creativity in the book. Rules interactions, their strength and jankiness is one thing but the flavour and fun of the book is another. I've seen a lot of people say AoS 3 will fix all of our problems but I simply don't think it can fix my biggest issue with the book - which is that of many others going by reviews and comments I've seen.

Actually I saw something on the FB group saying this was FAQed and that mount choices are fine for rules like this. Because it's "Vampire Lord" as the main title and "on Zombie Dragon" as the subtitle.

Ahh that's not the issue. The book isn't weak. That has never been the issue with this book really. The problem is it feels boring. The vampire lore is very meh. Vampire Lords are one of the most boring warscrolls. Fell bats are also incredibly boring - now I know they were never a great unit but would it have been so hard to give them one interesting special rule? Retreat and charge isn't it, not on that unit. Aside from that there are LOTS of artefacts but plenty of them are meh or just obviously inferior to others. And not loads feel that inspired. Also in general the whole faction rules feel like they are a holdover from Legions of Nagash instead of their own thing. This faction isn't LoN - it's different, I think we can all see that now. But they couldn't let go of a lot of the rules which IMO hold it back from being truly unique. It's like this book is in the middle of a transition from LoN into a Vampire book, it's caught mid-transformation.

Isn't it a bit early to send feedback? We don't even have the book in our hands and yes the leaks are there but from GW's point it's so easy to dismiss feedback on a product that hasn't yet released. Don't be over eager, we don't want to make GW think that our complaints aren't valid or well founded. I want changes too, the book needs some, I just want the best chance at them.

Eh...I guess the Wight king has the function of making Grave Guard battleline? That's something. It's a hefty tax for just that but still. I might run him just because of that and the model. It's not a good reason to field him, but it is a reason.

They know. They realise the absolute gold that Grave Guard are in the book. That box is going to SELL. Heck, I'll probably get it. I want some Grave Guard to play and I want that Wight King model because he's beautiful. And then I don't know, I can use the black knights for bits? I can chuck them at my opponent to unnerve them before the game? I can add them to the base of my Coven Throne? All the possibilities!

That's the one thing that gives me a glimmer of hope for a second wave release. However long it takes them to split up the units from Cursed City into separate sprews, maybe make some changes in the book and then release. There are just so many great kits there and SUCH A HUGE CHUNK of our book is dedicated to Cursed City stuff. Tbh I like that in a Soulblight army. Blood Knights and Vargheists should be our bread and butter just as much as zombies and skeletons are. In a way, wolves are the niche exotic unit.

Skeletons are at their best just before they are wiped out. I think you want to maximise their chances of not getting cleared in one blow, so 30 I'd say is the best option. They also don't like small chip damage, or shooting and magic. So again, max unit size will help you heal those up on your turn. I wouldn't say 20 is bad, but 30 is significantly more survivable, which is what you're taking skeletons for.

Ah nah not for me, after all the models are also a suggestion and we could be instead playing with cans of beans and shot glasses for armies. Just feels silly. That's definitely not Mannfred no, it fights like Mannfred and looks like Mannfred but it's actually my unique vampire, WomanFred! GW's characters are theirs, they made the lore for them, rules for them and models for them, I'm not going to trample over that, I respect that. I just want lots of options for me to customise a new character. Little brings more joy to me in this hobby than making lore for a character, then kitbashing a custom model for it, painting it and putting together rules for it. The putting together rules bit is as much part of the creative process as the rest. It's why I got so excited at the Anvil stuff, somehow I missed it the first time around.

Anyone else despise regularly taking named characters? I'll take them once in a while, for the fun of it, but I don't like playing with a character that doesn't feel "mine". I want my games to tell the tales of battles of my unique vampire lord, not those of some character I didn't make, didn't come up with lore for and I feel no connection to.

Tell me why is it easier for us to think up flavour friendly, fun rules on the spot here but GW struggle to do so? And before you say "It won't be as well balanced" - maybe not as well, but probably not as badly as you might think. Surprisingly people don't actually want broken battletomes, and the ones that do are vastly outweighed by the ones that don't.

Where one of the vampire powers would be the CA? All that sounds amazing, I'd take it in a heartbeat. I was just expressing how I would even take worse rules over the current rules if it meant that the vampire lord plays more fun. But again, Anvil of Blood coming up so keeping my hopes up. On that note - shouldn't there have been reviews out today on that White Dwarf? Youtube videos on preorder copies and the such...I can't find any anywhere

The rend degrading bubble is pretty good though especially if you're running them alongside Blood Knights. Especially if those knights have a 2+ save... As for vampire lords: Easy fix: Give them 5 attacks and reroll 1s to hit as standard - they really do need it otherwise they hit worse than a wight king. A WIGHT KING. Let that sink in ⛲ Then, give them a choice of 1 of 6 (12 if we're really hopeful) Vampire Powers. Your standard stuff like +1 to cast, 12" fly, -2 Bravery around them etc. And then make them like 170 points ish. Done, flavourful but not broken Vampire Lord, if anything a bit on the weak side.

Nope, it doesn't. Necromancer, Wight King, Vampire Lord Fighty, Vampire Lord Magicky. Hey though, Vengorian Lords actually have decent flavour in this book, more than most.

Yeah, I mean I really don't care how strong they are unless they are utterly unusable. I just wanted them to be fun and flavourful which I don't think anyone, not even the most positive starry eyed folks, can say about the vamp lord warscroll.

Eh there's lack of creativity in the warscrolls too. Specifically the vampire lord one. I can say positive things about like 70-80% of the book but I will not live this one bit down. We are the Vampire Lords faction, it's in the name. Yet, Vampire Lords in it are hella boring. Even if the rules in the White Dwarf are all sorts of fun and amazing, I still will be disappointed that they aren't in the book itself. Let me tell you though this release has been an emotional 🌟 journey🌟 Hype at seeing the vampire lord kit leak, even more hype at seeing Cursed City leaks and reveal, hype slowing down as more and more revealed kits are resculpts, hype up when the vampire centaur was revealed, hype down when all the rest are resculpts and characters, hype building for new awesome rules nonetheless, hype and hope maintaining when WC starts running lore and rules articles, massive hype crash as (when randomly I got up in the middle of the night) I saw all the leaked rules, general despair as I take in all the new rules and see just how bland things are. And now...now I'm at a point where I'm noticing more and more hidden gems and fun interactions and it's lifting my spirits (hah). Boy...I'm exhausted.

See! It's all GW's fault as always!! Nah, jokes aside, as much as I expected people to not get the ltd. ed. on principle due to the lack of creativity in the book I should have known people would buy it anyway, just means it went to different people. But eh the book isn't as dire as it seemed on day 1 of leaks. All the battleline units are interesting. I never thought that I would ever be interested in the battleline units in a Vampire Counts book but here we are - they're fun! I do wish that the same effort went into making Vampire Lords interesting but hey, perhaps the Anvil of Death in the White Dwarf will fix it Have I made my character arc from salt man to positivity man? Who knows, I should probably ask @warhammernerd

Ahh so GW has created false scarcity by making people think it's sold out and desirable, when in truth it isn't!!

OoOoft I guess you guys aren't in the UK? We have everything including the ltd. ed book still for sale No wonder tbh, I can't think of why anyone would want the ltd. ed. book for this faction. Like yes the lovely models, but I just can't justify spending so much on a book I don't think is that fun or well written (I will not get over the fact that vampire lords have so little customisation, it's my hill to die on).