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JaffaBones

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    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by JaffaBones

    On 7/17/2019 at 10:49 PM, PJetski said:

    In my experience it's not even worth casting since it can be negated by simply moving >6" away from the model before shooting, and there's a chance they can come back to harm you. If you want to stop shooting you should run stuff like Tempestors (12" -1 hit aura, harder to remove), Fulminators (+1 save against shooting), and Geminids (-1 hit debuff that sticks).

    Also worth mentioning that hit debuffs do nothing against WLC and Thundertusks, don't do enough to stop Longstrikes since they hit on 2+ and get mortal wounds on unmodified 6, but they are great against Jezzails, Skyfires (kinda), Auric Hearthguard, Dracoths, Shootas, and Ballistae.  

    Try positioning the vortex a little more strategically so once they get into range to shoot they are also within the vortex. The vortex also has a nice inbuilt racism against chaos, which tend to be most horde builds nowadays. But your right, geminids should be preferred. 

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    On 7/17/2019 at 12:04 PM, whispersofblood said:

    I found Prosecutors with Javelins did decent ranged dmg, but I suppose that was sometime ago, but you might be better off taking skywardens as allies for the same role.

    Or Khinerai Heartrenders. Deepstrike, on 4+ extra move after shooting. Buffs when dropped in.

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    18 hours ago, jhamslam said:

    That Vanguard Hunter unit seemed weird to me. Id rather have a celestian vortex or Quicksilver swords for horde clearance since most hordes you will see are Chaos now. with the exception of gitz

    Thanks for the input. You're totally right with your horde assessment. I'm flirting with the vortex since my loss too Tzeentch Changehost. I'd love to do that, but I can't find fat to shed. Maybe you can point out how you would swap in the vortex. The hunters fill a Battleline spot. Swapping them frees up a mere 10p. However, the 10p allow them to flank and shoot/charge. I always flank them and get much more value out of them then objective holding liberators.

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    15 hours ago, Lionheart said:

    Thx for the answer, but there is an official source i can show at my local group? They want it =/

    Ask them to show you where it's written that he can only pray once? The only restriction you'll find anywhere is "either Heal or /Lightning prayer" and then the other prayer he knows. The Relictor has been around and established in regards to this.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    I'm going to a 46 People, 1 Day, 3 Game 2000p Tournament.

    I will bring a Variation of the Aquilorstrike List I posted earlier, which is a Anvilstrike variation I worked on to fit my playstyle more:
     

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    - Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
    Lord-Aquilor (180)
    - General
    - Trait: Deathly Aura 
    - Artefact: Soulthief 
    - Mount Trait: Wind Runner
    Lord-Relictor (100)
    Knight-Azyros (100)
    Spellweaver (100)
    - Heartwood Staff
    - Allies
    Spellweaver (100)
    - Heartwood Staff
    - Allies
    5 x Liberators (100)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (100)
    - Warhammer & Shield
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Vanguard-Hunters (110)
    - Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
    10 x Evocators (440)
    - 5x Grandstaves
    - Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
    3 x Aetherwings (50)
    9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (510)
    Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 200 / 400
    Wounds: 111

    Plan:
    Enjoy the hell out of deployment.
    I really love this part since I love playing high-drop. I position my Raptors and Wizards after I've seen where everything is, reliably always. Aside the Battleline-Hunters, I only put stuff into reserve on "Escalation" Battleplan and vs other Anvilstrike (the latter is planned, not happened yet). The Hunters can deepstrike 7" away from enemy. 

    I swapped Incantor for a second Spellweaver. I realised I basically only used Incantor for her Auto-Dispell and, yes she is way more versatile and can fend for herself nicely, but that seldom matters since it's not her job to fight in most situations, with all the other mechanics of this list in place to protect the Raptors from harm. Even when she went straight into enemy lines to get to pop the flasks, ... it was nice, yea but didn't really matter the course of any of my games so far. Her casting the geminids, unbinding and auto-unbinding on the other hand did matter every. single. game. I though I can get that optimised to 100p, the Spellweaver just does that. Few games with only 2x Spellweaver made me see to focus on the real fun part of the game: Positioning the raptors throughout the game.

    2 Repositioning Mechanics:
    The Obvious Relictor Prayer ... works... but sometimes not. Luckily you have Liberators and Aetherwings and a double-Spellshield. But still, that can mean whilie you're save, you are not dishing out crucial damage to win later on. You don't score aggressively with this list, you score stategicly. I have 1 Extra CP.  With this you can plan ahead.  Always try Translocation first. If it goes off, then fine. If not, think if you really really need it to go off, sometimes you don't. Keep the CP then. It's open more options next round since you're Anvils of the Heldenhammer. Sometimes I teleport the Relictor himself to a strategic edge near position, then use another hero to activate the raptor shooting, then reposition raptors EOM, shoot, and the relictor is the ticket back. Drop hunters infront for a little Screen and if the Translocation does not work next round, you can think of keeping the CP for End of Movement to collect them again with the Aquilor.  The Aquilor ability is almost battle-field wide : 24" and he can run winds aetheric beforehand.

    Worked well in the past,. The Hunter always payed off, which suprised me at first. But now I know: There is always a chance that some of the few (used to be fewer) battleplan with 6" from-edge-objectives comes along in a Tournament. Total Commitment is not so bad anymore, with the Aquilor/Raptor/Hunter flanking 7" from enemy. One mistake or forced event from my Opponent and I got up to 10 Models on that Objective for a CP. I had to cut one unit of Aetherwings though, which still stings me, I love them, best screening unit in the entire game.


    Bizarre engough that in some heavy contested games I found myself still dominant, yet unable to get enough horde clearence to score crucial objective points. The other Armies kept melting away and could not threat anything of me, but I could not threat  the objectives, and it is only 5 Rounds in the game. I think I overshot the goal to protect my Raptors. I had Translocation, Aquilor CA and Aetherwings + Screens to keep them save. The Hordes also couldn't do anything, since I either hit them with -1 (sometimes -2 with relictor) to hit from geminids. I need to clean them fast enough and have bodies on the scene, before they retreat out of 3" and still keep the Objective. The Plan now is, to go on more recklessly or nitty gritty with the raptors.  Use them as Bodies more often, teleport them out of combat and so on.
    1 Unit of Aetherwing had to go. The upside: 10x Evocator again to help with horde / MSU clearance. I figuered this is what I needed to work on.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    1 hour ago, frostfire said:

    Is staunch defender build coming back to its old days now? 

    Castellant, Sequitor, Evocator are more expensive now. If it does, then in a heavy Dracoth Build with LCoD General. I'm thinking lantern and staunch + ignax. +2 on Saves and +4 vs mortal wounds Deathstar build.

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Jaidean said:

    So, would something like getting rid of the Sequitors and the Lord-Arcanum, and getting two Knight-Incantors and Liberators be more competitive? 

     

    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    - Stormhost: Astral Templars

    Leaders
    Knight-Incantor (140)
    - General
    - Trait: Dauntless Hunters
    - Artefact: Godbeast Plate
    - Spell: Azyrite Halo
    Knight-Incantor (140)
    - Spell: Celestial Blades
    Knight-Heraldor (100)
    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Lord-Ordinator (140)

    Battleline
    10 x Liberators (200)
    - Warhammers
    - 2x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (100)
    - Warhammers
    - 1x Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (100)
    - Warhammers
    - 1x Grandhammers

    Units
    6 x Desolators (600)

    War Machines
    Celestar Ballista (110)
    Celestar Ballista (110)
    Celestar Ballista (110)

    Total: 1970 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 117
     

    Please understand what I say only as suggestions. You can keep the Arcanum and Sequitor but then make room for a Spellweaver instead of Incantor. That'll give you one auto-dispell for 100p but nothing else, the Incantor can punch better, has flasks and does not die that easy. Yet you'll be able to field Sequitor instead of Liberator. I'm a fan of Liberator though, I had many games in which the Sequitor did nothing but screening and holding points, because we lack bodies. Liberator do that job just as good, but cheaper. Depends on how you plan on using them and how you plan on holding points. If you have 30p left, and have an Incantor, then maybe a Dais can suit you. That Fly helps allot to max out / pinpoint the flask dmg.

    I used to like to ally an Archmage before the endless spell meta. Also 100p, 14" movement and +1 on unbind attempts with a nice Warscroll spell (6+ FNP in 36" bubble), maybe worth a look for you.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by JaffaBones

    6 hours ago, Jaidean said:

    Hello all!
    I'm looking to start a Desolator list and I'm looking for some feedback on it.

    I'm rather new to AoS, so any other general list building advice would also be great.


    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
    - Stormhost: Astral Templars

    Leaders
    Lord-Arcanum (160)
    - General
    - Trait: Dauntless Hunters
    - Artefact: Godbeast Plate
    - Spell: Azyrite Halo
    Knight-Heraldor (100)
    Lord-Castellant (120)
    Lord-Ordinator (140)

    Battleline
    10 x Sequitors (260)
    - Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
    - 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
    5 x Sequitors (130)
    - Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
    - 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
    5 x Sequitors (130)
    - Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
    - 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces

    Units
    6 x Desolators (600)

    War Machines
    Celestar Ballista (110)
    Celestar Ballista (110)
    Celestar Ballista (110)

    Total: 1970 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 113

     

     

    I just realised, this list and many other Desolator lists were cheaper in ghb18. As much as I like this list, I think only having 1 cast/dispell/unbind is way too few. There is a mortal wound tax every round coming in from endless spells. I don't think I'd be playing Stormcast without a Incantor/Spellweaver duo this season, which gives you two auto-dispell for 240p.

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by JaffaBones

    7 hours ago, Dayman85 said:

    I have a buddy who plays nurgle frequently, ignore the plague bearers completely; they are there to soak wounds. Sequitors are you best friend against that army from the demon d3 hits. Shoot the units that buff his other units, like if there's a guy giving 5+ feel no pains to the whole army he's your first priority. Let them move across the map toward you and try to use your mobile units/ teleports to try and snag late objectives. If you have a relictor and they're rocking blight kings make sure you blast them for -1 to hit so they don't get their on 6s d6 hits.

    54 minutes ago, PJetski said:

    Plaguebearers should be ignored, they don't do anything but take up space. Also worth noting that Plaguebearers -Hit ability only works in the shooting phase (and combat phase) so it will have no effect on your hero phase actions.

    Always kill the GUOs first - a 3d3 plaguewind is the only threat in the Nurgle army. You should be able to deny the first 2 casts if you have 2 Incantors, but they need to be dead before they try to cast a third.

    Thanks, I kinda thought like that two. I just received my list pack for the upcoming tournament. There are two almost identical Nurgle list in it with 3 GUO and 2x30 PB an a spell portal. I don't have two inventors, but I have two auto-dispell in my list, I struggle with opponents who understand unbind ranges or even work with a spell portal. And you are totally right about the -2 not working in the hero phase. Good to know.

    Btw, the event pack with all the lists is online. If someone wants to take a look. It's the most competitive tournament series there is in Germany I've been told. FEC and Stormcast are the most played armies with 5.

    There is even an Anvilstrike variation with 12 Raptors participating.

    https://wuerfelgoetter.de/10-aos-turnier-der-wuerfelgoetter-armeelisten/

     

    • Thanks 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by JaffaBones

    On 7/1/2019 at 4:35 PM, PJetski said:

    Hasn't been my experience. Sylvaneth are a melee army, and like all other melee armies they just get tied down by Aetherwings and shot/blasted down by the Longstrikes and Evocators.

    They have the woods to block sight but the mortal wound output between evocators, geminids, heraldor, and even Stormcaller they can't camp in the woods forever. The Aetherwings and Incantors stop them from being effective in the woods so they have to eventually leave to accomplish anything, and if they leave the woods then they get shot off the table. Any list with Alarielle loses almost automatically because she can't use the woods to block sight.

    How do you perform against Nurgle? Do you go for the 2 block of 30 Plaguebearers at all or do you shoot down the 3 great unclean ones first? After all they give -2 to hit against shooting.

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by JaffaBones

    45 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

    @JaffaBones

    None if your statements directly refutes my assertion that Stormcast in a “common” setting is a poor army, with a very few notable exceptional lists.

    It’s true that people can always play better or bring a better list, and do something internally to get better results. However, if I must play a “perfect” game, with a “perfect” list in order to get better results, while others are not held to the same standard in order to get better results, I’m sorry but to me that is the very definition of a base-weak army.

    I just played a game against Slaanesh last night against a person who played their first game with them and watched my army crumple like paper. I had to explain to them how basic game rules worked, and remind them to use their abilities. I wasn’t fighting Napoleon. Yeah, there’s things I could have done better, but I basically got tabled before the game was over and he ended the game with more models than he started with. I’m sorry but this isn’t just a player issue, and I don’t agree with your point of view. Some armies just have a better base set of rules to work with, and I shouldn’t have my competence questioned in order to make such an obvious statement.

    I'm sorry for your experiences, I wish you could've had some of mine. I just happen to find Stormcast very useful in a lot of different lists and I have yet to be proven wrong. Tzeentch Changehost and Skaven did lately, but not on "the road", with Skaven I have made so many improvements, I paid my dues. It's not a threat as it was and I'm sure I can beat it consistently at some point, guessing few weeks out. Which only means I've beaten the player behind it.

     

    On Tzeentch I need more opponents and takes on it, I'm very confused about the unit swap thing into 3" and how to position myself against that mechanic. I come to fall in love with the celestial vortex.seems to be made against Tzeentch. I never ever ever did think I would ever ever use that stupid to transport goofy looking badly painted spell.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

    If I remember correctly, LVO this year was a few days before the FEC tome released.

    In other words, before the fights-first meta started.  SCE was fine when they didn't get eaten before they could act.

    Yes, it was. Btw stats. All win rates before that are obsolete? Of course not. But at least somehow this fact/rule changer/modifier should be represented in the calculation? How about a few cycles in? Let's think about a model to represent all that, who the  has time for that ;)

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by JaffaBones

    34 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

    I have not seen these results.  I've been looking for good Stormcast results for months.  How long ago was it?

    Las Vegas Open 2019

    https://aosshorts.com/lvo-2019-results-top-lists/

     

    I only covered this event and saw some games per live stream. The commentators mentioned that the Stormcast player is two time defending champion of said event. Which means LVO 17 & 18 I guess? Potentially just just as big? Come to think of it, what am I trying to argue here, I'm making a weak argument! Here it goes, ... Bear with me ... we're at the very start of competitive play I come to think. We see arguing win rates and competitiveness and there are major events as is LVO and whatever playstyles being practiced we don't all know, because this isn't covered as is chess or poker or where you might think it should rank.

    My feel is, and you might interpret this as elitist but it's not, my feel is that any player in my region would smoke a majority of of games I've seen broadcast anywhere. And that's a lot. I also bet everything, that a lot of players here feel the same way about their own beasts of buddies. But it takes much out, to go consistently to two day tournaments in our dedicated stage of life to so many other things. As again, a lot of you might feel similar.

    What is left is you, you finding ways to win! 

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted · Edited by JaffaBones

    22 minutes ago, firtahl said:

    I think you did say that. Could it have been poor phrasing? It also seems to be a statement of fact based on no supporting data. Opinion or not, its hard to tout the merits of an unbiased analysis followed up by an opinion that used some fixed %.

    You arent wrong that statistics can easily be misrepresnted, and a comment like that shows exactly how easy it is to commit the exact offense you are trying to bring attention to.

    Maybe poor phrasing. My opinions are not facts. If I meant fact,I would've said fact. I could've also said 80% or 30%. It's still you, since others did better or worse, and again, it's ok.

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    1 minute ago, crkhobbit said:

    I think the disconnect here is that JaffaBones is in the context of game win rates.  And, at least to me, "competitive" means the potential to win large, competitive events.

    For my money, game win % is an irrelevant counter to the assertion that they're not competitive if literally no one in the world can win a GT with them.  If literally every Stormcast player goes 4-1; but literally every Stormcast player still loses to FEC, or whoever the boogeyman happens to be at that time, it's fair to say that they're not competitive in that context.  Because the event win % is zero.

    And when FEC is so consistently placing in such large, competitive events, it's completely fair to treat them like the competitive boogeyman that they are.

    I can sign this. I'm so used to competitive being argued with win rates, that maybe I did read into something.

    About the Grand Tournament argument, didn't Stormcrutch win some in a row or do those tournaments don't count as being competitive? I think they where +180 participants, but I really don't know without further research.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

     

    3 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

    I don't understand how you're "supposed" to win 70% of games, and it certainly sounds elitist to proclaim that anyone playing a certain faction should have that level of winrate or ~you're bad~

    Wow, please re read that statement.you are implying I said that.

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    I'm on my phone and on my way home from work, I'll need a real keyboard to respond in kind.

    Just a few situational points to consider winrates: Does it contain all versions of all Battletomes or just the current one? All pointchanges or just the latest? Is the source cleaned of mirror matchup?

    Why? Example: Your at a tournament and have 2 mirror matches. Each win for you means one loss for the win rate, which leads to check if the most played faction also has the most mirror matches?

    Is the devation of good/bad players the same as FEC, since it's a beginners and poster boy army? Is it reasonable to think that mostly good/competitive players switch to new armies and take it to tournaments within month of publication? 

     

    I do not want to give an answer to these questions, these are just a very very few to ask, and there more.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

    Everybody thinks FEC is overpowered because every large tournament Top-5 has 3 FEC lists.  That's not statistics; it's results.

    Your last sentence is exactly what hinders many people without the appropriate academic background to work with stats. It's tempting to think so, it's toxic however to press your interpretation (and that's all that it is) as reality onto others. With stats people tend to get very aggressive in the way they are willing to argue (historically and always). You just made my point.

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    23 hours ago, Belper said:

    Atm, nothing in stormcasts is all that competitive tbh.  We mostly have gimmick deepstrike lists and 'brake check' shooting lists.

    (A brake check list is a list that either you have the tools to deal with, and you win with little or no effort, or you don't and you get wiped off the table immediately'.

    I don't get where this sense of entitlement comes from in the community, that a faction has to have some kind of auto-win condition or otherwise it is not competitive.

    As much as I like what the honestwargamer does for the community (can't stress enough how important his handbook and approach to unify technology and collecting data is, I really mean that from the bottom of my heart) I do also think that most people without the appropriate academic background don't know how to handle statistics or interpretation of statistics. And he also makes it easy for people with basic knowledge of statistics to misinterpret them, because all the ways clustering used is very suggestive and there isn't much he can do about it even if he wanted to. Without the right education you're not able to challenge correlations and causality of statistics.

    Stormcast has the unit variety to adjust to any change in meta without ever being completely lost or drawing dead. Yes, it's not easy, because you have no Auto-Win.

    Everybody thinks FEC his so overpowered and while I thinks some of their strategies should have a bigger trade-off condition against one another, I think it's becoming the new BCR, which only beginners complain about.

    Your skill is what's important, especially with Stormcast. Sorry to say and I don't mean to offend, but my opinion states: If your win rate with Stormcast in tournaments is under 70%, it's you, and it's ok.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

    in Stormcast Eternals

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Marzillius said:

    Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Mortal Realm: Aqshy
    LEADERS
    Lord-Arcanum (160) - General - Command Trait : Staunch Defender  - Artefact :  Ignax's Scales - Spell : Azyrite Halo
    Knight-Incantor (140) - Celestial Staves (Artefact) : Staff of Focus - Spell : Chain Lightning
    Knight-Incantor (140) - Spell : Stormcaller
    Lord-Exorcist (120) - Spell : Lighntning Blast
    Lord-Castellant (120)


    UNITS
    20 x Sequitors (440) - Tempest Blades and Soulshields - 9 x  Stormsmite Greatmaces
    5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1 x  Grandhammers
    5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1 x  Grandhammers
    2 x Concussors (240)


    BATTALIONS
    Grand Convocation (130)


    ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN
    Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
    Everblaze Comet (100)
    Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
    Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
    Balewind Vortex (40)


    TOTAL: 1990/2000     EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1     WOUNDS: 97
    LEADERS: 5/6    BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)    BEHEMOTHS: 0/4    ARTILLERY: 0/4
    ARTEFACTS: 2/2    ALLIES: 0/400

    I came up with this list while trying to make a magic-based SCE army for variety's sake. I love my cavalry armies but sometimes you gotta do something else. Grand Convocation gives +1 to cast to all the wizards for the endless spell fiesta. Basically the Lord-Arcanum's CA allows you to move an endless spell an additional d6 inches, very useful for giving the Purple Sun or Geminids a little boost. The Incantor will cast the Balewind Vortex and then pop the Staff and cast Spirit Storm, dealing 2 MW to every enemy unit within 24", alternatively casting Chain Lightning on some hero 30" away and giving them d3+1 MW and 2 MW to everyone around them on a 4+. With the Comet and the Geminids on the same turn you can realiably kill a lot of heroes over 2 turns. The Sequitors will have 2 + save with all the armour buffs and Azyrite Halo, making them tough as nails against everything but Skarbrand and the Gristlegore clowns. Liberators hold points and Concussors charge into some small-medium tough units and hopefully take some objective or something. Overall a lot of mortal wounds and not half-bad tanking and melee capability. What do you think?

    Lovely idea! I'll try your listand give you feedback

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