DocKeule
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Posts posted by DocKeule
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1 hour ago, Bregor said:
Narrative sense, sure, but the mechanic was clunky af and the two units felt unfairly singled-out. Good riddance imo (until the next time they write the warscrolls when the mechanic will suddenly be back).
I get your point but from an immersion-standpoint that was one of the few things in AOS that still made sense. But yes ist will make movement and positioning a lot easier (and no one would be surprised if the rule was back with the next update for no appearent reason).
1 hour ago, Bregor said:Also, I can definitely understand Skreech's frustration with the update, since nothing that's really holding us down was addressed (except maybe having another viable BT to score), and probably won't be until the next book. Points changes are nice, sure, but that's not the big issue. We'll see, though; maybe having a more viable big caster on the board and the extra VPs will bump up our stats a bit.
But when does that happen in those minor updates anyway?
When a faction ist part of a new box set the units in there often get bumped but mostly only for a short time. Other than that it is usually a new army book that brings change. And even there I don't see much happening for Skaven unless at least one of the clans gets a big multi-model release. Unless that happens they are an aftherthought. -
1 hour ago, Bregor said:
Ding dong, one of the worst rules in the book is dead! The Screaming Bell and Plague Furnace have figured out how to push themselves!
The bell is also 220 now. Given that it can actually move now, I wonder if it becomes a melee unit? A cheap verminlord equivalent that can bring one out as well if the right conditions are met? Hmm. This might actually have possibilities.
I don't know. It was kind of thematic and made more sense than many of the other carriages moving without anyone or anything pulling them. But yes it makes using them a little easier.
1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:Man the new battescroll update is kinda mean to the skaven.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/AefiGVn8NoPchpF2.pdf
I don’t see us rising in the meta at all.At least there is another easy battle tactic especially with the Clanrats being able to retreat and charge.
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12 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
Get in their FACE! Ballz 2daWALLZ
Were I to make such an army, I might have to kitbash various Doomwheels like I did with my Azgorh Skullcrackers (who are all Chaos Chariots now, cuz Azgorh 😛 )
I mean, the Doomies could lay down quite a bit of firepower with Warpspark and MMWP help plus Deranged Inventor and AoA. I'd almost not do Lightning Cannons just to get a couple more in there, as they can do MW on the charge and pile-in can't they? Not the biggest bases either. Just when I thought I was out of the lab...THEY PULL ME BACK IN.
You can only play four behemoth units in a 2000 point list any way.
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The issue here is: The wording on the Ratling Gun Warscroll is older (i.e. has not been changed with the new battletome) than the edition 3 core rules. 2nd edition core rules never specified what "a double" is. They probably should just cut this one sentence since there would otherwise be no argument on what a double is in a role with more than one dice.
But that's GW. They are just bad a writing rules with no lose ends and don't get me started at lore...-
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The main issue against SoB is usually scoring points. In my experience an tournaments SoB players tend to park their giants on the objectives and in many scenarios is is hard to kill them off fast enough.
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4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
Very eager to see if the flayer can get into something meaty and cause some mayhem.
Rend -2 isn't something to sneeze at. I think the key is to pose different threats at the same time so your opponent can't stack all defensive buffs on your target,
Otherwise you will still have a hard time to get damage through. -
2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
I’m looking in it and…
no there is nothing stating that a single hero is needed:
at least not in the core allegiance ability.
and the different clan ability are exactly written the same as in the app
edit: so yes the first clan moulder mutations and to get the first eshin clan Ability literally needs no hero.
Yes you're right.
The old book linked each clan's ability to at least one hero on the table but they seem to have gotten rid of that. That makes sense with how tight the points are in 3rd edition. A Master Moulder would do very little for the Hellpit Abomination so it would be a 100 points tax on top for the mutation.-
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I am pretty sure you need a hero to unlock any clan's battle trait but I only have the app in reach at work. I will check the book later at home.
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3 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:
While you need three master moulder to give all of your hell pits a mutation, the first one gets it free no matter if you have any master moulder.
Don't you need at least one hero from a clan to get the specific battle trait?
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10 hours ago, SevenXes said:
I should have been more specific; I was not talking about playing the monks as single models, my question was aiming towards building the furnace with an ogor instead of the rats. Because - as mentioned - the Ogor is part of the model with the bell. So my idea was to use him at the back of the furnace instead of the rats.
I think the chain for the ogor and the bell might be shorter that the one for the monks and the furnace. As far as I remember it is not the same piece. But that shouldn't be too hard to fix.
10 hours ago, SevenXes said:May I ask what would you recommend instead?
One or two bigger units of monks as a hammer isn't bad. But for screens I would use Clanrats. They are cheaper and still have a better save.
10 hours ago, SevenXes said:Okay that explains it a bit better, Im still figuring out what heroes are necessary for which unit.
Thank you very much for your input! That is really helpful.
Unfortunatly GW strayed a little away from this concept.
With Skyre units (alt least if they are important to your strategy) you still should have an Engineer, Bombardier or Arch Warlock for support. Warstone sparks and the "More More Warppower" spell can really boost the efficiency. If you take a Skryre hero as your general the "Deranged Inventor" is also good.
The Clawlord also still buffs Verminus units with a special command ability but I would argue that Clanrats aren't worth the extra points. A large unit of Stormvermin maybe.
For the other clans GW took away most of the special buffs. Plague Priests for example don't really do anything special for Plague Monks or Cencer Bearers any more. The furnace is nice for the 13" battleshock bubble. That can help your screens to stick around a lot longer.
But for example Grey Seer with the "Death Frenzy" spell will probably do more to make your Monks a threat than a Plague Priest on foot or on Furnace. -
1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:1 hour ago, DocKeule said:
Well you want shooting and Stormfiends are one of the best options you have for Skaven. But you need a Skryre Hero to go with them. The only shooting Pestilenz has is the catapult which is very unreliable (just one shot) and works best against hordes also.
They are also one of the most boring options in a skaven list.
I like them lore-wise. Showering your enemy with hazardous trash is so Skaven. And when the old warscroll battalions where still legit they brought decent results especially against larger units.
1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:I do admit that I am very competitive, but I dislike telling people to play stormfiends and only stormfiends to win games, when I personally dislike playing them on my own.
I think competitively it is one of the best units we have. If they are fully buffed they are a threat to most important targets (where the cannon often is out of range and not mobile enough.
I wouldn't use Skaven in tournaments. (Frankly I have stopped going to tournaments any way.) They are much more fun against opponents that won't max out their lists still leave you some breezing room for everybody to have fun.
I don't quite understand why GW doesn't give them more attention since they are one of few real original GW IPs. But I guess just like Night Goblins they just don't really fit the aesthetics that GW is going for in AoS. -
10 hours ago, SevenXes said:
This year I have exclusively played the Kruleboyz - including tournaments - but due to them being rather weak and also quite one-dimensional I am looking for a second army to collect and play until my Boyz get a proper tome. Which brings me to the Skaven.
If you want to play tournaments I don't know if Skaven are the way to go. They are extremely swingy and (according to the current statistics from the honest wargamer) their winrate is exactly as bad as the Kruelboyz.
Non the less..
11 hours ago, SevenXes said:I plan on diving into the faction with the Battlebox, which appears to be a rather good deal especially when starting Clan Pestilens (which is what I am aiming for, for now). There are however a couple of questions and hopefully you can help me out:
1. The Battlebox contains a Plague Priest on Plague Furnace. The Bell (alternative model) is built with a Rag Ogor holding the chain. Can this Rat Ogor also be used for the Plague Furnace, instead of the three monks?
If you want to concentrate on Clan Pestilenz the battlebox is not the best way to start. It would be much better to look for at least two of the old start collecting kits. You should still be able to find some online or at local shops (maybe even with a nice dicount now that got phased out).
If you also want Stormfiends and Clanrats this box is alright. But appart from the Furnace there is nothing for Pestilenz in here.
Also the three monks are not really good to be played as single models. As war as I remember theiy are one or two pieces on the sprew.
11 hours ago, SevenXes said:2. I like the Verminlord Corruptor, judging by his Warscroll he appears to be a finde addition to Clan Pestilens. What is your opinion on his performance? Is this model worth it?
Fluff-wise it is a nice addition and in a pure Pestilenz list he gives you some magic. (He cannot chose any spells from the Skaven lores so meh).
I have one Verminlord and did not build it to fit any specific type. I just use him as whichever kind I want.
11 hours ago, SevenXes said:3. I also love the Hell Pit Abomination, though I have rarely seen it in any Battlereports. Is this unit usable in a Pestilens list? I could not find any restrictions online, wanted to make sure though.
In the current meta with more smaller elite units crazy good saves and high rend it has a harder time to find it's role than it used to.
It is strong against hordes but you don't see too many of those in the current edition.
11 hours ago, SevenXes said:4. Plague Censer Bearers: These dudes are way too expensive to buy them via GW/Vendors.I have read multiple times that it is recommended to convert Plague Monks. Is this doable without much effort? Im not keen on converting things unless its really easy.
The Plangue Monks sprew has one arm with a flail that looks similar to the cencer bearers. You get for of those arms in each package of 20 monks.
Not sure if I would go that heavy on Pestilenz to be honest. Monks are a good hammer if the are buffed and if they hit first. But they also crumble quickly once they take damage.
11 hours ago, SevenXes said:5. Last but not least: Do Stromfiends make sense in a pestilens list?
Well you want shooting and Stormfiends are one of the best options you have for Skaven. But you need a Skryre Hero to go with them. The only shooting Pestilenz has is the catapult which is very unreliable (just one shot) and works best against hordes also.
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Depends a little bit what direction you want to go with your Skaven army. If you like Skryre this is a solid foundation for a mixed list and viable for smaller games. If you would rather fo Moulder or Pestilens you can get clanrats and a bell cheaper second hand.
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That is pretty much what I just wrote there.
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3 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:
No max range is 3 inches, spears are legit useless now.
Well for this season yes. But in five month when the next GHB is out and the realm rules change again the extra reach might come in handy again.
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30 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Well If I’m not mistaken the latest rules do say that everything having the skaventide keyword exchanges that with the skaven keyword.
also theoretically you could still give 1 unit of rat ogres a mutation, since the first one is pretty much always free.
anything more wouldn’t work
Alright ****** it. I quit. This level of delusion hurts my brain.
The August 2021 errata had every mentioning of "Skaventide" changed to "Skaven"...but only in the Skaven battletome and not in Broken Realms Kragnos.
So as you all love to look at the rules "raw", the Kragnos updates were illeagel since August of 2021. -
Seriously people...this is beyond stupid.
GW names the Broken Realms books because they include the most current versions of some profiles and allegiance abilities for some factions that haven't gotten an update since.
But if you look at the pages in Broken Realms this stuff is titled with "Battle Traits" and the opening lines talk about the "Clans Moulder allegiance ability which has been restructured with the new book so the older allegiance is voided. Plus the Broken Realms text opens with "If your army is a Skaventide army" and the new book doesn't use that keyword or allegiance any more.
So please stop fantasizing.-
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Sorry but that is just wishful thinking and it doesn't make any sense.
The same page 46 also includes a couple of publications that are even older that the Broken Realms books but are generally still in effect. By your logic anybody could just chose which rules to use or maybe even piece together rules from different points in time that most suits them.
I can understand the disappointment especially from players who have invested money and changed they armies in the light of the Broken Realms rules. But it has been more than a year since Kragnos. That is pretty long for GW to wait before revoking buffs compared to what they did to other factions.
GW is just an ****** company that wants to make us buy a often and fast as possible and nothing else. They don't care about balancing and they don't care about older factions being playable unless that involves buying a lot of new models.
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16 hours ago, greg19190 said:
Were is that from?
Is is stated in the comments from the core rules at several points like 20.0, 25.0, 26.0
16 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:Well that would be true, but gw confirming that the broken realms can still be used, currently also means that the rules for the skaven would be valid.
which would currently mean that Rat ogors could still get a mutation.
personally I haven’t used those rules for such a purpose and I might not either.
I’m pretty certain the next faq will surely clarify our problems with the book
But only unless the rules have been overwritten by newer publications. We don't still use the warscrolls or point values from BR when there have been any updates.
The mutations were an addition to the Moulder allegiance. With the new battletome the allegiance has been updated again and the mutations for Rat Ogors have been cut. -
2 hours ago, greg19190 said:
Let's hope so
in the generals handbook it says the kragnose book still counts so until there is a faq I think it is fair game. Other books still have the broken stuff so think it is only fair
The Broken Realms books only count unless they are overwritten. The new Skaven battletome overwrites the Skaven rules from Kragnos unless they made it into the new book like the mutations for Hellpits has.
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7 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:
Why GW doesn't just do this themselves with all the outdated ranges is beyond me, but here we are. Makes it cheaper for us i guess 🤷
Because there is no money in that. Skaven don't have many new players and there are tons of ratmen on ebay etc.
If they brought new Clanrats...who of us would replace the existing 100+ models with newer sculpts spending a couple of hundred bucks in the process? I wouldn't.
3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:Yep, sorry gw, but you basically suck
Yes that is pretty much the quintessential conclusion from the last couple of years. And it is getting worse. -
3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Yeah I really love their look.
Technically it is gw’s own fault for not updating the oldest range.
I just have to ask a friend of mine, if he could print them out for me
You would probably be better off with that. Apart from the prices that are hefty...a nine part metal model? No thanks. -
I would probably go Khinerai Heartrenders over Aetherwings, since you could only put in one unit any way.
But I am really not a fan of allies.-
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Have there been any new warscrolls leaked already?
in the generals handbook it says the kragnose book still counts so until there is a faq I think it is fair game. Other books still have the broken stuff so think it is only fair
AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion
in Skaven
Posted
I don't think GW will scrap Skaven. I mean you never know with these #@* but they are still somewhat popular and the box sets still sell even if the Skaven part contains only models from ten years ago.
On the other hand I don't see Skaven going up in the meta any time soon (or probably at all). They are a fun army and for most players only good for casual games.
As for the tatctic: If you use min-units of clanrats you will have a hard time. With a reinforced unit (maybe double reinforced) you should be able to pull it of for at least two to three rounds.