Gobsmakka
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Posts posted by Gobsmakka
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I have recently made a video on Youtube that I think would be relevant to people in this thread, but I will post the key data below.
Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGt-UtIg5ws
Basically I have built a simulator that can pit AOS units against each other to fight it out thousands (or millions) of times. I use this to derive victory probabilities through simulation instead of only looking at offensive output and defensive resiliency metrics. The simulator handles all battleshock, special rules, battlefield layout, pile-ins, etc. This is so things like base-size and weapon reach can factor in appropriately. For example, you could put on actual numerical value on how much better 32mm bases or compared to 40mm from a unit-to-unit combat perspective with this approach.
The relevant tables I'd like to share here compare the the combats of Savage Orruks with Stikkas and Chompas, and Morboys in unit sizes of 10, 20, 30. While my simulator does support different starting geometries for the combat, I've standardized on a flat layout with a combat frontage width of 320mm for all simulations used to derive the data shown below. To read and interpret the data in the table below, for each row (e.g. 30 stikkas) a unit of that size and composition in its ideal configuration (proper number of banners, leaders, shields, special weapons at the front line, etc.) has a >50% chance to defeat a unit of X number of models of the unit configuration type specified in each column. So for example, 30 Stikkas has a >50% chance to kill a hypothetical unit of 35 chompas, 35 morboys, but only 27 morboys if an enemy monster has been killed.
Stikkas
Chompas
Morboys
Morboys*
30 Stikkas
35
35
27
30 Chompas
25
27
22
30 Morboys
26
32
23
30 Morboys*
32
41
38
* = enemy monster killed
Similar data for unit size 20:
Stikkas
Chompas
Morboys
Morboys*
20 Stikkas
21
19
16
20 Chompas
19
18
15
20 Morboys
20
21
16
20 Morboys*
23
26
25
and unit size 10:
Stikkas
Chompas
Morboys
Morboys*
10 Stikkas
8
7
7
10 Chompas
11
9
8
10 Morboys
12
10
9
10 Morboys*
14
13
12
So you can see that in unit sizes of 30, the Stikkas are a pretty clear winner, especially for the points. Unit sizes of 20 is a pretty even matchup against the three, but the Morboys have a nice benefit of dominating if an enemy monster is killed. At unit sizes of 10 the morboys take it easily. There isn't much good news for the poor chompas unless you are needing to fill out a battleline requirement for a small unit and you're not Bonesplitterz allegiance.
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5 minutes ago, RaiderX said:
At 1 damage min he won't be killing anything unless he crit, which made his S4 completely pointless
At 90 points he is more expensive than many sub-100 fighters
When you look at the other warband, you can see they had much better and cheaper sub-100 fighter in comparison : Venomblood, Spear cabalist, Mindbound, and even the Awakened One, because they're so cheap.
The only 2 good thing about him is that he had 12 wound, which allow in to take 1 or 2 more hit, and he's the only sub-100 hitter for the Iron golem.
So he's :
-Expensive
-Range 1
-Slow and took age to get into combat
-Had to rely on crit just like the other cheap/spammable unit
-Had no special abilities
+Can take 1,2 more hit.
What other 90 points similar fighers out there? Skeleton Shield Graveguard, just as slow, (with abilities that help them move) 2 less wound, but deal 2/4 (3/5 with abilitiy) damage, which make this fighter infinitely more reliable than the Armator.
So how exactly do you make an expensive crit-bait sloth like him work? Pray for better battleplan?
The fact that you complain about 1 damage and say that he only deals damage on the crits, while at the same time you fail entirely to mention the number of attacks lends me to believe that you haven't actually done the math here. This is really just a lot of subjective opinions and very light on actual data. The truth is that most damage in the game overall is done by criticals, so your statement is true of basically every fighter. If you're going to compare the armator to the grave guard with shield and assume that the grave guard outperforms him in damage because he has base damage 2 instead of 1, you certainly haven't done the math. These two units are basically tied, 4.06 average damage output from the armator vs. 4.09 average damage output from the grave guard with shield. Why you ask? well, the armator makes 4 attacks per activation vs. the grave guard's 3. You have to actually do the math. The grave guard with shield is 9 points per wound (well below average) and the same toughness, he works out to 10.04 points per average attack to kill (and 8.96 attacks to kill) vs. the armator's 10.75 attacks to kill at 8.37 points per attack. In no uncertain terms, the grave guard with shield is a worse deal in stats for the points than the armator. If you're going to bring special abilities into it then ok, that's a more complicated discussion, but your assertion was that the armator was among the worst fighters in the game in stats per points and you have failed to demonstrate that.
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I mean, if you said he was a bad points for stats it should be on you to support your assertion, but lets work through this together anyway.
The armator is above average in every category except movement.
1. He is 7.5 points per wound, The average game-wide is 8.63 with a standard deviation of 2.21
2. If you calculate the average damage from attacks and the probabilities of damage from S2-S5 attacks along with the distribution of the various strength values against Toughness 4 (which he is) you get to a figure of 10.75 Average attacks to kill, and devide his points by this you get 8.37 points per average attack to kill. The average in the game is 9.99 with a standard deviation of 2.33. He is above average in effective durability for the points.
3. In terms of average damage output he is above average (slightly). given the distribution in game between the various toughness levels his damage output averages at 4.06, the average in the game is 4.03 with a standard deviation of 1.95.
4. His points per average damage output is one of the absolute best in the game at 22.16 points per average damage. The average in the game is 37.8 with a standard deviation of 15.53The literal only drawback is move 3. He stacks up well even against other move 3 fighters in points per durability and damage metrics and notably is above average in all categories.
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On 8/16/2019 at 10:21 AM, RaiderX said:
Points for stat wise The Armator is amongs the worst fighters in the game
Was this supposed to be a joke?
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Anyone have a decent counter to Sylvaneth (Gnarlroot battalion)?
I've been running a Kunnin' ruck list for a while and its a decent army against most people. My local meta has a sudden influx of sylvaneth though and they can cover most of the board with wildwoods that prevent shooting and can pick of individual models (and slice units in half) on a charge. The Gnarlroot batallion is usually a one-drop army which they rely on to take first turn and flood the table with wildwoods before the opponent can move units up to mid-field to occupy the large unclaimed gaps in terrain. I am also a one-drop army (Bonegrinz) so if I get first turn I half somewhat of half a shot. The whole game just comes down to this one dice roll, a 50/50 chance to lose the game before even bothering to deploy. I enjoy these bonesplitterz but I find myself filled with actual literal dread at the amount of sylvaneth I will have to play in my area.
So anyone have any sweet tricks or ideas to prevent me from just shelving this army? here is my brief army comp.
Big boss, wardokk, maniak wierdnob
4x10 units of Orruks
3x2 units of Stabbas
unit of 30 Arrowboyz
unit of Boarboy maniaks
Kunnin Rukk + Bonegrinz warclan -
On 10/24/2018 at 1:54 PM, Hankster said:
Hey @Gobsmakka where did you find the points for the Rogue Idol? It's an awesome model. Do you find it to be worth the points? 400 is a lot.
Its on the last page here: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-monstrous-arcanum.pdf
Also on the warscroll builder. 400 points is a lot but he's been worth every penny, maybe even undervalued.
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10 minutes ago, Hankster said:
Thanks @Oreaper84! One more noob question. How do you get a unit of big stabbas? I don't see them for sale anywhere.
They can be built from the basic Savage Orruk box. Each box can build two (one full unit) of them, but that will take 4 orruk bodies from the box unfortunately.
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1 hour ago, Oreaper84 said:
If i runnin kunnin..I almost alway use the assault dice app. It is GW endorsed, super easy, and super fast. I am not exagerating that i can do an entire fully buffed Rukk (+1 to hit/exp 6's/reroll 1's) in less than a min. Its honestly the ONLY reason i came back to the kunnin rukk bc i was in the same camp having 15 min volleys pickin dice and such
I'm unfortunately an android user and it doesn't look like that app is available yet for it. Is dice rolling app generally accepted in the tournament scene? My normal weekly club play is very casual with the time and most games are usually in the 3-3.5 hour time frame if they even finish, due to lots of talking and discussing tactics along the way.
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I don't see a lot of 2k point lists on here so I just figured I'd throw mine in the mix here for comment and improvement. I'm new to Bonesplitterz and had some struggle to figure out how to not get melted off the board quickly, and this is the first Bonesplitterz list I've had good success with sofar. Big takeaway here is that the Rogue Idol is a big problem on the board that needs to be dealt with, and so is the block of 30 archers with all the buffs. I would like to try to work in the maniak weirdnob into this list for his spell to allow re-rolling 1's/re-rolling failed hit rolls for the archers. Its already a pretty killer block with the brutal beast spirit buff and the savage big boss' command ability.
Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of da Waaagh!
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast Spirits
Savage Big Boss (120)
- Granite Choppas
- Artefact: Dokk Juice
Wardokk (100)
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk (100)
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Hand of Gork or Mork
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (420)
10 x Savage Orruks (120)
10 x Savage Orruks (120)
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)
Rogue Idol (400)
- Allies
Kunnin' Rukk (200)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 168
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Do tournaments or any other play events still use malign portents rules? I notice adepticon 2018 rules said they accept the warscrolls only and nova open does not list them. I've only done one tournament myself over the summer and it was not mentioned. It felt like the harbinger general thing was really just for that campaign which is pretty much over it seems and replaced with 2.0. Could just be my local meta, but I've not heard of anyone around here using malign portents since the campaign ended.
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6 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:
If I get this right one could doublerun and charge a blob of 30 boyz on average 29" with cogs, fungoid and a trigger of rampaging destroyers? 2*(4(move)+2(cog)+3,5(d6 run)) + 7(2d6charge)+2(drummer)+1(IJ charge bonus) = 19+10".
And then bring them back again..
Edit: realised rampaging destroyers need to trigger on a 6 as fungoid is the general. That trigger is worth 9,5" movement, gotta bring a lot of heroes!
A few things there I see going in this thread here that seem off, unless my understanding of this game is fundamentally off.
* If you're Ironjawz Allegiance, the fungoid shaman can't be your general. "In a Pitched battle, your general must be a Leader, and may not be an ally"
* Rampaging destroyers in Ironjawz can only be rolled for Ironjawz heros, not the ally fungoid shaman. If you were intending this list to be GA Destruction then your +1(IJ charge bonus) isn't valid.Also on a general note the one issue I would see with massive Ardfist is that Ardboys don't die very quickly, especially in large blocks, so you wouldn't be looking at getting them resurrected until at least turn 3, and wouldn't be able to move until turn 4. Its a big gamble because even though they come back, they may not be able to get into a position to be useful by the end of the game, or in time to save your spiraling victory point deficit.
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I'm new here and relatively new to the game, looking for list critique and optimization. The core of this army I've been using for a while and am pretty happy with performance-wise. Adjusting to 2.0 has been tricky. Key features of this are 3 Waaagh! givers, ensuring (hopefully) some mid or late game Waaagh!, Aetherquartz broach on a Warboss on boar with banner, Fungoid shaman operating the cogs, Gore gruntas in units of 6 for a much more likely smashing and bashing trigger than 3. I would like two wizards to help ensure this goes off turn 1 but due to ally cap and the added cost of the weirdnob vs. grot shaman I can't seem to fit that in.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh!
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 17x Big Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
Ironfist (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 220 / 400
Wounds: 159
AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
I'm not quite sure exactly what your asking, whether in regards to if I have done some other previously mentioned simulation or if I have attempted to simulate any other units with my engine currently. I currently just have these bonesplitters, ardboys, and stormcast liberators in there and I have tried all combinations of those. I am currently working on improving my engine to support oval bases but once I do I plan to run similar simulations against the boar options in a charged/not charged situation.