Nerdkingdan
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Posts posted by Nerdkingdan
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25 minutes ago, KoganStyle said:
See the first paragraph of the jumping rules. You can move any distance vertically downwards as part of the jump, so you would place your model on a platform/battlefield floor as part of your jump, thereby at the end of the movement be on a surface (not mid-air). If you're actively choosing to leave them in mid-air after the move/jump you should follow the falling rules.... and you deserve all the punishment your opponent can mete out as a result 🤣
EDIT: Oh I see what you mean....
I see the confusion, A jump does not end its action in mid air, a climb does not either, but a move that does would cause fall damage, I can't think of why you would want this but maybe there is a corner case I can't think of.-
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One more thing to look at if you don't want to do count as, use the attack characteristics from sigmar, that match the model your putting in to determine its damage.
Greatswords for example unbuffed do not swing harder than Namarti Thralls in sigmar, yet you have them as 2/6, where as the thralls are 2/4.
Handgunners do not have a gun that is better than blood stalkers bow in Aos. They shoot 2-3-1/5 20" compared to your 2-3-3/5 8", so their hand gun should likely be something like 2-3-1/4 15". -
First glance, these guys are too powerful for their points cost. A lot of fluff/base abilities from AOS are doubles triples, etc, and not on available on the cards... These guys base stats to point cost are way too good, compare the Iron Gauntlet Shield guy to yours and you can see what I mean, you have 1 more attack, instead of two wound, and your 25 cheaper! Attacks are the most powerful stat.
I would suggest, picking a faction that is in the game and doing a straight count as.... If your unsatisfied with that, move models from various factions to one, using the associated abilities. Wouldn't be perfect for example use the Iron golem shield guy, use the untamed beast duel wielder for great sword, use stuff from the coming allies book as well. Handgunner looks the roughest, but the allies books should have something. -
Nope, falling is not jumping. They both take impact if you go down vertically enough, but when you jump your opponent does not select the point. An example of falling is rolling a 1 when you get crit while close to an edge of a platform.
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3 hours ago, Ference89 said:
Cauldron of Blood comes in a similar price to two regular Heroes and gives you the Hag Queen and the Slaughter Queen. Additonally you will have an awesome model to field as an alternate Blood Sister Gorgai. Sell off the charriot and avatar, I think this way DoK players will have the most budget friendly heroes.
Yes but its not listed in the allies currently, could mean nothing or it could mean they don't get them.
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I couldn’t figure out how they would handle DOK heroes coming in the cauldron, looks like GW didn’t figure it out either, just use stormcast I guess.
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On 8/21/2019 at 2:32 AM, Craze said:
I think the strength of our new tome is the massive flexibility we have.
In my opinion the thing coming closest to a must have (but isn't one, strictly speaking) would be 3x Spite-Revenants and the Outcast Batallion, as it is the cheapest way to fill battlelines and enables you to take an additional artifact, as our artifact choices are really great.
Additionally a Branchwraith is almost mandatory, as she can try to summon a unit of 10 Dryads every turn, which (in most games) leads to her not costing any real points by the end of the game.
By then you really have a lot of options:
- Kurnoth Hunters are really great, whatever loadout you choose.
- Arch-Revenant is a really good support hero (though difficult to buy one, as it was only released in the Looncurse box so far)
- Durthu is a very good choice for a General, as his Damage output tends to be insane with the correct artifacts + buffs
- Drycha is a very solid option, especially in Glades like Winterleaf or Gnarlroot
- Treelord Ancient is a good choice, as he is like a swiss army knife type of monster: You can boost his casting with artifacts, his stomp is really good, he has a decent melee profile and is quite tanky.
- Dryads are a good battleline choice, which is more resilient than Spite Revenants and also has chances of good output due to their 2" range, which enables them to attack in multiple ranks.
This is not even a complete list, as almost all units in our tome have their uses. I think it is important to decide what kind of an army you want to play (magic heavy, melee focused, etc.) and then go from there. A Start Collecting box is a very good way to start, as it includes a Treelord kit, which you can build into any variant + some Dryads. From there you can then expand with Kurnoth Hunters, Spite Revenants, more Dryads/Trees etc, however your playstyle and preference is.
What would be an example of a magic heavy list, I am looking to get into Sylvaneth as a chance to use endless spells, etc...
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1 hour ago, Leonhart040 said:
I've tested the 1000 point list I posted some days ago and it worked pretty well. I maintained the 3 man Ishlaen guard unit to have some more board control, and against sylvaneth and squigs won 2 of 3 games.
Now I'm thinking on expanding it to 1500 or 2000 points, but from here I don't know what to use. I've seen lists with eternal guard for screening, some with Eidolon and some with even more morsarr guard or bigger units.
As I don't intend to play fully competitive, I'd like to have a bit of everything, maybe some more magic. What about reivers, are they so weak as they seem? Is the eidolon worth the points?
I am a big fan of Reavers, in a 10 man unit, for shooting, speed, body count, and battle line in a tide flip list. I have more success with Reavers than I do thralls most games due to flexibility, speed. They both die pretty quick.
If you try warcry you will want them as well. -
8 hours ago, IneptusAstartes said:
Shame that the sharks with frickin’ harpoon-launchers on their back are a mere bravery 6... the worst thing would be losing several 120-point allopexes to battleshock.
I've seen the argument sharks are better in a King general army for the plus 1 attack, inclusion of Ishlean to tie things up, and more likely to have access to the command point to avoid the battle shock test. This is not as an effective list as the tide flip, but again I've been looking to scale my army down to face locals who are not as competitive. The thought is they have rend outside the charge so will be better on that turn 3 for plus 1 attack command ability.
Another solution is to put them in a list with Akhelian corps and I believe you get access to a battle shock reroll. Again less competitive, but playable.
I am of the thought you want 1 big unit, or none. -
6 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:
Are Allopex still regarded as trash?
I think the general idea is that the best army core is tide flip, with tidecaster, soulscryer, and 2x9 Morrsarr + battle Line leaving you 360 points to play around. You can sub out one unit of Morrsarr for a 4 strong shark unit, its not as good but workable, and still pretty good. I bought 4 sharks just to do this to scale my competitive list.
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On 8/11/2019 at 4:55 PM, Deepkin said:
As written its not different, its just onslaught for reavers only, which is...pointless?
Sigh.... I had assumed onslaught was melee only but your right, Storm Fire is currently a bad ability, that begs the question if deepkin in warcry was play tested. Or hopefully onslaught was just missing the under 3 portion.
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37 minutes ago, IneptusAstartes said:
How would an all-Akhelian army work out, and what enclave(s) would be best? I want to make an army of flying sealife - have wanted to ever since the models were revealed - and I think the eels look like a lot of fun to paint, but I’m afraid it will make me That Guy.
So having never played a game of AOS, i read the rules, and purchased 30 eels, a king a shark, and a turtle, I don't think I even knew the points for sure. I played pugs, and the thought of large block of flying dudes scared people. There are a percentage of people who think I am cheesing it, from the day it came out, even though I bought on looks. An all flying eel army has the reputation deserved or not from day one. I would tell people I bought this before I played, I thought it looked cool, it didn't help.
I purchased a 100 of the namarti. I put 40-60 of them in every list now, and people complain less, significantly less. The list actually performs better because the mixed army works better, with extra bodies, tide flip, and the single drop of the Namarti corps, but the mixed version just upsets people less.
I don't think all flying is the best way to play deepkin competitively, but it does have a reputation. You are dealing with a perception that has nothing to do with reality, so to avoid it you have to make some arbitrary change for people. Deepkin all eel, isn't even winning, because tide flip is better and requires at least 30 namariti, I now play a more powerful army then they complained about.
Do what you want, and don't concern yourself with what they say is the lesson to be learned from my story.-
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5 hours ago, Maddpainting said:
Is anyone else interested in the new Cities of Sigmar book coming out as allies? (I know no real information is out about it), but just thinking if anyone else is waiting to see whats in it?
I am, really stuck in a rut with my lists, and I am hoping something in there can shake up my deepkin.
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Posted this in a deepkin facebook group....
First your leader is likely best to be the Ishlean Prince, A second eel should likely be Morrsarr you are likely to get that quad 1-2 times a game, where you can actually use it. You can just run Morrsarr but the Ishlean Prince has a higher base attacks and a cool ability to protect him from crits in key turns, but I really think having one Morrsarr too for the blast 1-2 times a game would be really powerful.
My first draft list...
1 Ishlean Prince 260
2 Morrsarr 400
2 Reavers 150
2 Thralls 160
This list gives you access to all the abilities, focuses on the eels, etc... I want 2 morrsarr to have more control over where the blast is going to be if I roll that quad.
You can drop one Morrsarr and with the 30 remaining points pick up 2 reavers and a thrall. Which I believe was listed earlier in this thread, but I think I want 2 Morrsarr.-
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6 hours ago, Curzex said:
Hi guys, after play more than 30 games im so bored of this army, always turn 3 instant win ir just my rivals dont want to play more.
Are you guys in the same.situation?
Are idoneth over powered in no competitive meta??
I think sell the army and buy another one.
Can you help me ?
Buy wood and sea, if you still win try sylvaneth. That is my plan to fight friends who are not competitive.
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4 hours ago, Trevelyan said:
Dryads are a lot tougher than Spites. Between blessings of the forest and impenetrable thicket, a unit of Dryads can be very hard to remove.
But in terms of pure damage out put they lose to the new Spites under any circumstances. Consider that in the above example, the aspires were doing more than twice the damage of the Dryads. Rather than look at the challenge of getting 15 Spites into range of the same target, you could look at it another way - you only need 7 Spites in range to do the same damage as those 15 Dryads.
Both units are useful but Spites are useful as a (glass) hammer, while Dryads are your anvil. You want Dryads for their durability, and to make the most of that durability you should be near a wyldwood. Spites play games with Bravery and Battleshock so want to be out hunting targets.
So you picked some key numbers here I want to point out, I play a lot of thralls in deepkin, correct me if I am wrong but they have the same base as Spites, and 1 inch reach. 7 is in fact the average number I get in contact, thralls are faster and occasionally get my +3 inch charge buff. My point here is that you are significantly more likely to get more than 15 Dryads, than you are more than 7 Spites, consider the speed as well as the reach. I picked up 2 looncurse and two starters, and my feeling is more dryads before more spites.
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Has any of the points changes, updates, or the passing of time changed anything on this army?
Anyone playing it, I'm interested in it as a deepkin player, to get use out of my fish, with some variety to my play. -
11 hours ago, tripchimeras said:
I mean it really all depends on a number of factors. How competitive are they playing being the main one? The other big one being, are you guys list building specifically to scenario and opponent, or taking all comers lists? If its the deathstar Fyreslayer build, tourney DoK, and SCE melee alpha, yeah youre namarti list is probably going to lose a high number of those games. But if Fyreslayers aren't taking that 1 build (I'm honestly not sure I even know what a non-deathstar fyreslayer list looks like haha), and SCE plays balanced, and DoK takes some of their less optimal stuff, you probably are fine I'd think. Unless lists are competitive, in general I have also found that a single unit of 9 morrsarr affords you the ability to pretty much take whatever you want, within reason, for the other 1500pts and still be able to compete. So yeah if your friends are competitive gamers, at 2k points you probably need min 15-18 eels with at least 9 of them morrsarr (i think rule of thumb is 9 per 1k in my mind), but otherwise I wouldn't think a namarti heavy list is destined to failure before dice are even rolled, it just might be more of a finesse win, with a lot of close calls when you do win.
SO I would really like to get more out of the thralls, than I am, and I'm willing to keep trying on it.
So questions, are you saying thralls should be 20 models, not 10? Am I required to run Mor'phann in this plan? I am pretty sure the 10 man reavers are better than the 10 man thralls in a lot of situations, especially against some of the large blob units with no save. 10 man reavers with the extra speed and run reroll are doing a fair job of speed bumps for my eels, but looking for what I might be missing outside of my usual opponents having lists where thralls are sub optimal, I should still get more out of them I think. -
10 minutes ago, tripchimeras said:
I mean it really all depends on a number of factors. How competitive are they playing being the main one? The other big one being, are you guys list building specifically to scenario and opponent, or taking all comers lists? If its the deathstar Fyreslayer build, tourney DoK, and SCE melee alpha, yeah youre namarti list is probably going to lose a high number of those games. But if Fyreslayers aren't taking that 1 build (I'm honestly not sure I even know what a non-deathstar fyreslayer list looks like haha), and SCE plays balanced, and DoK takes some of their less optimal stuff, you probably are fine I'd think. Unless lists are competitive, in general I have also found that a single unit of 9 morrsarr affords you the ability to pretty much take whatever you want, within reason, for the other 1500pts and still be able to compete. So yeah if your friends are competitive gamers, at 2k points you probably need min 15-18 eels with at least 9 of them morrsarr (i think rule of thumb is 9 per 1k in my mind), but otherwise I wouldn't think a namarti heavy list is destined to failure before dice are even rolled, it just might be more of a finesse win, with a lot of close calls when you do win.
they seem to be running mostly competitive, not full optimal but usually close. As in the majority of points are the competitive lists, usually with something sub optimal.
I've been running 9 eels per 1k, actually, and I'm doing very well, but the thralls do nothing but speed bump, vrs what I face. -
30 minutes ago, tripchimeras said:
I mean, of those 4 lists 2 of them are made up almost entirely by 2-3 wound models which is literally Thrall kryptonite, and 1 is one of the most OP/durable armies in the game. Thralls should be getting you a lot of use only against goblins of those 4 matchups, as long as you avoid getting them stuck into the 2 wound squig like units, they are going to do LOTS of damage there (last time I played against gloomspite a sandwiched a unit of 60 between a thrall unit and morrsarr, and the results were quite entertaining). So yeah I can see why you don't like them, as 3/4 of your games are pretty damn terrible matchups for them.
The key for thralls is picking your spot, because you are only going to get the 1 chance. There are plenty of games (like a lot of yours I would think) where you are going to be leaving them in your backfield to hold/guard objectives or act as overpriced screener, but I haven't found that to be a problem, you need bodies on the field to project board control, and while reavers are marginally better at that roll, just because they have the shooting, they also aren't going to surprise anyone in combat who forgets to bring the hammer to knock out one of your objective, like thralls can. But then there are going to be games where your thralls do crazy heavy lifting (like killing gheists etc) where you would be lost without them, which more then makes up for the reavers slightly stronger role in board control.
At the end of the day I think they provide a list much more versatility then strait eel spam. There are matchups where you will wish you had them if you had only taken eels, and even when they aren't great, they are good enough not to be a liability as long as you don't expect wonders out of them, and play them conservatively as a result. I don't think there are a lot of use cases for ever taking more then a min-battle line worth of thralls in competitive builds, but I think they are quite nice, and taking 3 units of 10 in conjunction with 2 units of eternal guard and all of a sudden your eel spam has some bodies behind it for a fairly reasonable price allowing you to still take several big blocks of eels if you wish (and allows you to ASF turn 2 as a very big added bonus).
So if my primary opponents, are Thrall Kryptonite, I can forget running a majority namarti army?
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16 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:
#alternativefacts
not liking thralls and reavers is fine but saying there are no leadership mechanics apart CP is just flat untrue.
Command trait
Aspect Sea
Lotaan
Last Lament
in other words there’s options in command trait cheap character, expensive character and artifact to help with morale.
I mean the blanket immunity to battle shock, many other units seem to have, is hardly a comparison for +bravery while completely within. Last Lament, is 1 turn, and I have had some luck with it. Completely within is the issue for most of these, for example +3 for completely within 9 of the sea is good but maintaining it sometimes means not getting optimal placement of a model that is more than 400 points. Large units of these guys have a very big foot print, lotann not having flight when the units charge and pile in, often losses his 12 inch.
Compared to units that just blanket get it without proximity to the hero, like the Hag. I run these guys in every list, cause I like the models, and tide flip, and the bodies, I just feel they are still a bit expensive when a unit with 25MM bases 2 inch reach and better attacks per model cost less in a lot of factions. -
22 minutes ago, Drofnum said:
Terrorgheists shouldnt show up in competitive lists? What FEC lists are you fighting? lol
I'm sorry your experience has been poor but maybe you just arent using them correctly? Just about the only thing i've put them against that they have struggled with are Fyreslayers(Vulkites, hearthguard obviously kill them) and that ended up being a stalemate essentially. I've used them against Plague Monks and they killed more than they lost in the 3 times i've played Skaven, kill terrorghiests like I said with or without ghoul kings, ethereal VLOZD when it was a popular thing, countless bloodthirsters, dragonlords, witch aelves in equalish numbers, Keeper of Secrets.
The list could go on and these are not one off events where i'm getting lucky, these are consistent results. Running Dhom Hain(reroll 1's to hit on the charge) a unit of 10 Thralls will do 14.5 damage to a 4+ save on average vs Monsters/4+ wound models. Its a bit lower if you're going up against 1 wound models, around 10.3 damage vs 4+ or 12.9 vs 5+. So again on average 10 Thralls will kill the monster they attack and on average they will wipe a same sized unit. If the unit you're attacking has a DPR then you will usually need a bit of help, but that doesnt make Thralls a poor unit it just means you picked the wrong target.
I fight daughters, goblins, fireslayers, and stormcast, most.
How are they outperforming plague monks?
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1 hour ago, Drofnum said:
Thats maaaaaybe true for Reavers, Thralls are pretty damn good for 130 points. Even a unit of 20 is good, sure not all will attack but with a soulrender near them they will stick around for a long time and even against 2 wound models will generally win the fight they're in.
I have countless times sent Thralls into things worth far higher points. I've had units of 10 pretty regularly take down terrorgheists and other big monsters, you need to pick your targets(kind of the theme of the army) and they will perform very well when you do.
What are they fighting that they should beat, that should be in a competitive list?
You had good rolls, doesn’t mean it’s a good unit. You killed an over costed thing that shouldn’t show up in competitive list, again not a good unit.
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11 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:
A summer class really cut down my warhammer games unfortunately. anyone have any interesting findings in recent games? (I promise I won't just yell "eels are better" )
Not sure it’s interesting, but 130 points is still way too many points for thralls and reavers. It has nothing to do with the eels being better, it’s more like eels work and the Namarti don’t.
Base too big, attack’s too low, no bravery mechanics to keep them on the table without command points, 2 wound models are everywhere and base save too low.
Reavers with shots, 8 move are more reliable than the thralls in terms of having some impact, still poor performers
I can not send Namarti into anything of roughly equal points and expect them to win or live even one combat phase.
Annoyed I bought so many, when really they are just a tax for tide flip.
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Falling or jumping??
in Warcry
Posted · Edited by Nerdkingdan
And after wracking my brain, I got it! You're engaged, you're on a platform, you want out, you can't climb or jump as part of a disengage, so you move your 3 off the platform, and fall.