Mark Williams
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Posts posted by Mark Williams
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I've been taking Speed of Lightning in case I anticipate a tricky charge coming up. I think Celestial Blades might be a little bit redundant. My guess is that celestial blades is meant to be a stacking buff with empower, somehow. Like you cast empower and celestial blades on the same unit? I don't know. The invigoration spells in general seem a little lackluster to me when put into the context of evocators. I think they are more useful on something like a "battle mage" that might be running with a fast, hardhitting group of assault units - example gryph riders, or dracolines.
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47 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
Competitively some regions will be lucky to have a "IDK guy" but I doubt the faction has much staying power.
There's one "IDK guy" in my gaming group. He runs 30 thralls, tidecaster, magic king, volturnos, 2x6 assault eels, soulscryer? (priest that comes in reserve), and a few endless spells from malign sorcery (the one that gives +2 inch movement). I find him to be one of the most tricky opponents to play against in our group, and every battle boils down to how good of an assault the eels get when they come out. It's a bit of a "YOLO" strategy, but the main issue is there are no soft targets - everything is pretty much a power unit that can hold its own against most everything in the game. It makes it difficult to find a good of attack into the army, as you're stuck between a rock and a hard place most of the time. It's not unbeatable, but it's definitely one of the more naturally competitive armies in our group (at least it seems to me).
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13 minutes ago, Urauloth said:
Actually, since I can't see a better thread to do it in: If anyone has the Evocator kit, what are the grandstave models like? There aren't many pictures of these about. I think there was a shot of a unit from an open day painted up in Hallowed Knight colours, but I can't find it. I'm surprised there aren't more pictures on the webstore page.
I'm in process of putting 5 together. The grandstaves (weapons) are not a singular model in the sense that the staves all have different looks to them. The top of the staves can be anything from a spell effect to a sort of mace-looking thing. The evocators themselves essentially come with two different sets of arms, while the bodies retain their overall poses. The poses are cool-looking, but they are not quite as pose-able as you would imagine (making me wonder how much variety you might get if you had a massive army of them). They look cool though, and the models are very big and imposing.
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I feel like I already know the answer to this, but if you roll a "we cannot fail" damage save for the Celestant-Prime, can you change it to a 6 using the Orrery of Celestial Fates? I'm sure his warscroll only applies to normal armor saves, but I had to ask.
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39 minutes ago, Khadral said:
Do anyone has some feedback about crossbow judicators? How do they perform? Based on my calculation they should do more damage in almost any situation, but is it worth it considering the halved range? And what about the special weapon? The crossbow seem to be more effective VS hordes while the bow performs better against heroes
This is what I run.
lord celestant on dracoth w hammers of sigmar trait (6 damage save)
2x5 crossbow juds w shockbolt crossbow
2x5 vanguard raptors w thunderstrike crossbows
celestant prime
the rest is on the board, wont list them.. all of the above drops from the sky together in a tight circle. Troops surrounding the heros to keep them from getting wiped out in the hitback (dracoth and prime have 2” range so they can hit over stuff if I get charged).
I basically obliterate whatever I choose to focus down. If my opponent gives me long enough to charge the prime up too, I just charge him in and obliterate something else in addition. The enemy is then forced to make some hard choices as no matter what they attack, it’s going to happen a second time if they don’t kill enough stuff back. I almost always go 2nd turn and hope for a double turn. It’s not overpowered to the point of being unfun for pro to play against, but I’ve definitely won some games on turn one because people underestimated how much damage I could do in a single drop.
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I just bought a box of evocators this weekend but I’m conflicted about how to build them. Are the grandstaves better than the sword+stave option?
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Redeployments do not count as moving for special abilities, they just prevent you from making a “normal move” in the movement phase.
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The main issue with liberators is a lack of damage output, compared to many other army's battle lines. You can't avoid getting into assault in AoS, due to missions that require you to move forward and sit on objectives, which are often in the middle of the board or in enemy deployment zones. Liberators have decent defense, but when they attack back, they hit like a wet noodle. They don't give as good as they take, and so an army built around them basically only has middling defense and not much else. You can't win games if you can't make your opponent roll saves. It's basic, and barely should need explaining.
Liberators have a few basic jobs:
1. They can camp an objective and defend it as long as they aren't the focus of attention.
2. They can escort more valuable units and stop an enemy from surrounding you and getting a 100% charge.
3. They can act as sacrificial pawns, standing 6-8 inches in front of your main army, and acting as the first line of defense, which will allow you to retaliate without losing your best forces earlyon.
4. They can act as sacrificial pawns, to tie up or occupy enemy units for a round or two, with the goal of dividing your enemy or distracting them from the mission.
That's basically it... in each case, the real "work" of your army isn't being done by liberators. At no point is any of their worth involved in killing the enemy or capturing an objective that's being held by opposing forces. They are essentially a harassment unit. They work fine for that goal, but you can't win games with them, and if you keep adding more and more to your army at some point you've lost so much killing power that you're nothing more than an inanimate punching bag for your opponent to punch through on the way to winning. An annoyance at best, but never a threat.
Combined with some of your other "good units" however, liberators in small quantities can be quite useful, and almost every army needs some cheap unit/s out front keeping the "murder force" from ramming straight into the heart of you on the first turn. That's Lib's job, and they are fine at it. But you need something behind them that will actually kill whatever hits the liberators - ie. not more liberators.
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11 minutes ago, DanielFM said:
That's sounds awfully a lot like "they are good at dying" ?
That's exactly what I'm saying.
But I'm also saying that you can use everyone's knowledge of that against them by setting up "traps", and also to take the initial, inevitable charges that are going to hit you no matter what you do. If you didn't have to take Battleline at all, then sure. But if you have to take them anyway, and you want to get some extra points for something else in your list (ie sequitors or judicators cost more), then you CAN give them a purpose other than pure dead weight. I'm offering people a use for them other than just sitting off to the side somewhere doing nothing and hoping not to draw attention.
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1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:
I agree with this. I mean theres only two things that Liberators do, be a battleline tax and slightly tank objectives.
Liberators make decent “bait” and also “shells” as well. Everyone knows they suck and thus no one is afraid of them. The goal is to put something in range of them to punish anyone who decides to kill them for easy points. They are basically a “combo” unit imo. I agree they are weak and overpriced for what they do, but I also feel that they serve a purpose in allowing you to protect more important units and to prevent direct charges. We could certainly talk about whether sequitors do it better, but I’m not arguing that libs are better at anything, just simply that they do have a good battlefield role other than sitting on an objective.
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3 minutes ago, Requete said:
Is there anything that makes Retributors good? I have both Retributors and Evocators and the latter just seem better in every way (cheaper, more attacks, move faster, are braver, are wizards, etc.). I like both types of model, but I feel like I must be missing something.
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
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19 minutes ago, Richelieu said:
You must've missed the 6/29 FAQ. Top right of page 3. Setups that say it counts as move don't count as having moved for the purposes of any other rules. It simply restricts them from moving.
I do feel it's pretty solid case, but the FAQ doesn't list them specifically, which I would feel better if it did. I've tried dropping and using rapid fire one game so far, and it pretty much blows at least one unit completely away in a single turn, which I admit is pretty fun. You have to pick a good target though because they are really bad at taking damage, and if your target has a 3+ save or better they can't seem to convert enough wounds.
Their best use seems to be picking a really big unit of little guys with bad saves.
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Thralls in large quantities are very difficult to deal with, but their movement is a bit meh, so you have to sort of plan out where you are going and what you're going to do ahead of time. I've been playing against a single block of 30 for a while, and I have to devote about half my army to dealing with them in order to keep them from over-running me. I can't imagine having to deal with 80 of them. It would largely depend on your deployment I think.
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13 minutes ago, blueshirtman said:
how different are they from each other, the crossbows look very simiular. Anyway people probablly won't mind it much, she won't play tournaments, and crossbow judas aren't world breaking good.
Thanks everyone for the help.
Been messing around with 2 units of crossbow juds and 2 units of hurricane crossbow raptors. it's a very effective "horde killer" to drop on someone, but only if they are allowed to "rapid fire" as soon as they land, which I still feel is kind of up int he air... RAW-wise, they definitely can do it, but I could see an FAQ putting a stop to it...
You are spot on with your assessment that they are good, but not world breaking. They are fun to drop on people, but that's about the extint of their power. it's nothing like dropping evocators with Gavriel first turn and getting a 6"+ to charge...
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28 minutes ago, Richelieu said:
So I have a super strict reading of the Stardrake mount trait "Stormwinged" that makes it incredibly powerful.
For reference:
"After this model has moved, you can pick 1 enemy unit that this model passed across, and roll a dice. On a 2+ that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds."
FAQ has made it clear that pile ins are moves.
FAQ has also clarified that you can move forward and then backward with a flying model to count as having passed over another unit.
Therefore, with every pile in move, your Stardrake can move over the enemy unit and right back to where it was, triggering this ability.
Thoughts?
My gut reaction is that the ability only counts for "normal moves". I agree the rules feel like they are all over the place right now though. With command abilities being poorly worded and people trying to pull off weird stuff... we are in need of a more updated FAQ pretty bad...
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2 hours ago, Requizen said:
Doubtful, there are more Wound sources than pure MW sources, and the 6+ is fairly minor in either case. It's nice to have, and definitely of the Stormhosts one of the least bad Traits, but it's not quite Staunch.
Yes I've run it for a few games. It's not bad, but it's not as good as Staunch was.
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8 hours ago, mDaro said:
I can't stop thinking the bows with 3/3 and -1 rend outweigh the extra attack......I haven't built my 10 yet. I keep seeing this but isn't that rend more important?
Honestly I just enjoy them because they are different. I’m still waiting on an official faq that says it’s ok to drop them from the heavens and rapid fire. As it stands, dropping 10 juds and 3 raptors on most units takes the wind out of them. It’s pretty strong, but not overpowered.
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Can you roll for rituals again with a different hero if you fail it? Saw someone doing that this weekend and not sure if it was a special ability or what.
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Re: Retributors.
Been using a unit of 5 for a year because that’s what came in the starter box . They earn their points back for me maybe 1 game in 20. Imo they have been dead weight for ages. I’ve gotten better and better at using them, and I can fairly reliably get clean charges off with them these days with new Scions rule. Doesn’t change the base problem with the unit. For an elite assault unit that costs 220 points, they pale in comparison to every other army’s similar options at similar point costs. This isn’t a “combo” or a “play better” issue. They really suck at their job. Giving them a 3+ save or a higher chance to inflict mortal wounds, or increasing their rend on charges, would be a “good start.”
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48 minutes ago, chord said:
We got nerf'd hard.
I don’t think so. My army definitely got stronger. However some of the old power combos no longer work. I think they just hammered down the stuff that was making every army look the same.
I agree the battalions seem overpriced and underwhelming however.
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Played a game tonight with this list.
Hammers of sigmar
on board:: lord relictor, lord ordinator, 2x5 liberators, 2x5 judicators w crossbows
off board: celestant on dracoth, neave blacktalon, celestant prime, 5 retributors, 3 raptors w hurricane crossbows
Tabled a chaos army with Archeon & Tzeench allegiance.
impressions:
1. much more control of striking from heavens
2. Crossbows much more dangerous
3. Bravery makes the army practically fearless
4. 5+ to bring libs back failed every time (not sure about this yet)
5. Celestant prime is much bigger threat and more reliable due to changing the charge result
6. I forgot to roll damage saves for new command trait. Have to relearn how to play this.
7. Lord ordinator bad for this list and I should replace him
Questions:
1. Does the celestant prime get +4 attacks on turn 3, or just 2? Opponent questioned this but it seems the sam as before to me.
2. Do the raptors get to rapid fire when striking from the heavens? Not sure based on vague FAQ wording.
3. Can you use more than 1 command point trying to bring a unit of liberators back? Gut says you get one chance when the last one dies then they’re gone forever.
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5 hours ago, Lord_of_Khaine said:
Bonus!
Almost fully painted now, just finished up 5 Khinerai, have 5 left and 10 witch aelves and the endless spells. Will post full army when its ready
Your models look amazing. May I ask how you do your bases? What materials and colors are you using?
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After reading through this thread, I don't see anyone talking about using Draichi Ganeth combined with the Slaughter Troupe battalion. I've been looking at this as a potential base to build an army around, and wondered if anyone has any experience playing with them and an idea of how well they would do. It seems to me being able to retreat and run back into combat (or even attack a different target) would be very useful. I'm surprised I don't see anyone looking into this and I wonder if I'm missing something.
Their best use seems to be picking a really big unit of little guys with bad saves.
AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
The multi-part Liberator set is the only one that has all the weapon options. The easy to build liberator box only has hammer and sheilds, and the prime has a hammer and shield.
You can equip your prime with a grandhammer or grandsword, so it's worth it to get the box instead of the easy to build models, unless you just need a couple extra liberators to fill out a squad or something.