cadmachine
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Posts posted by cadmachine
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24 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:
So, I was really looking to move in a Sacrosanct-oriented direction from Dominion, but I'm completely new to list-building for Stormcast. Out of what we have now, is there a good way to utilize a mostly sancro list, or is it going to be kind of an uphill slog? I'm happy to use anything out of the Dominion box in addition, but I love the look of evocators of both varieties, though I just don't see a lot to really make them work on a surface level. Also, would running 2 MSU units of sequitors alongside a unit of 10 vindictors be viable, or am I really just better off running more vindictors?
Sequitors are definitely one of the better choices after Vinnies, they hit and wound on 3s and have good abilities and are going to tough to remove when they are buffed and in the right Stormhost.
Evocators are good they aren't going to win you any games but they won't let you down if you use them right either.
There's alot to be seen as we come up with combos and synergies over the coming days too.
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2 minutes ago, Nqshou said:
Well, we all knew it was going to be like that once again. What the point to sell new models if people are going to stick to their old ones.
Problem is even some of the new stuff is uncompetitive.
Vanquishers, Vigilors and Knight Relictors for instance are pretty much never takes over Vindictors and other heroes.-
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2 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:
Think that is underselling it a bit. There are great combos in there.
If you run dragons you can have -1 to be wounded across the board from the menagierie command trait. The Dragon Guards can move and charge in the hero phase, avoiding redeploys and unleash hell, perfect for pinning units. Big Dragons, especially with a general giving -1 to be wounded are really tanky, as they also reduce attacks by 1, so absolute monsters to throw into enemy units, especially due to their tail attack. Krondys with +3 cast on Starfall and his own spell can be super handy, Starfall locking down pile ins, that really messes up armies relying on the 6" pile in shenanigans. Lots of mortal wounds going around, even at range.
Stormhosts are decent fun, Hammers are all around great to give 6+ wards wholly within 12" of objectives, that is always great. LOTS of battleline options, some are indeed perhaps better than others, the losers seem to be the new vanquishers though, dreadful damage, expected them to have 2 attacks with dmg 2. Liberators got a bit more punch, so decent for the lowest cost battleline.
Paladins are great and can be battleline too, 3+ saves, higher damage output, you basically got +1 save and +1 rend on them all and more attacks too. Combo them with Knights Excelsior for murder. Get a Lord Releictor with Translocation to teleport in the hero phase on a 2+, they can still move after!!! (crazy). Sequitors got access to a 5+ ward, that should not be underestimated and especially evocator kitties got some more MW output and the mounts got d3 dmg at all times, not just when charging.
Dracothian guard also got much better, more wounds and rend and damage across the board. Holy Orders are also create some interesting tactics. Could be used for 10 judicators to dish out some really dangerous damage. Unleash thy hatred for 1 attacks on a paladin unit, for example the new great weapon annihilators is scary. Celestant prime is also really really good with 4+ ward.
There are very few things that got worse, most things gpt way better and many things are more streamlined. The only thing so far that stands out as somewhat bonkers though is the translocation prayer. 2+ chant on a lord to teleport a unit without any movement phase limitations is mad.
Yeah I definitely agree that there is some great stuff in there and Ill enjoy alot of it, but there are some reallllly weird decisions, odd warscrolls, some just bad buffs or nerfs and the points, oh lordy the points.
Most egregious is battleline is like they over purchased Vindictor sprues and will go bankrupt if they dont sell them lol
Lost ALL Command Abilities from every warscroll to be replaced by a list of mostly okish abilities that you can only have one of once per game seems so bad it seems like a mistake and they left a page out of the book?
Knight Relictor might be the worst warscroll I've ever seen especially given its points cost.
Stormhosts are now ok, but nothing special.
and the Celestar Ballista is a real let down, literally the only warscroll I can think of published in the last 2 years that has no special rules, while the Kruleboyz bolt thrower got one of the most potent series of rules I've seen in years.
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10 minutes ago, Nizrah said:
Yea. Thats why Iam best stormcast player in Poland, was 8 in general Poland laederboard in 2019-2020 season and scored 4-1 in our last Master tournament. I don't know anything about this army mate
Ok man lol but that makes your lack of insight all the more odd.
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1 hour ago, Nizrah said:
You are isane LOL.
Most of the old things were touched and lifted into stright S teritory, looking at you relictor, paladins etc.
Judicators are insane with their dmg output. They are literally DoK stalkers but withouy doubletap (good thing).
There is huge amout of battleline options and buff to everything, hits, wounds, svs, attacks and debbufs.
Liberators are still dirty cheap for what they can do now like 10 of them can counts for 30 models on obj lol.
Palladors can kill things now with d3 on axes.
Artefacs are amazing. Take amulet for ward or mirror shield to just say ****** you to enemy missle units.
Magic dragon is superb. Prime got ward finally. Bastian is amazing. Vandus maybe finally see table. Even ducking Gardus is usefull now with ward bubble. Relictor with +1 to prayers?????????
This book is amazing.Sounds like you dont know alot about the army to be honest.
S territory is absolutely a joke.Judicators are 2 shots 3s and 3s one damage with mortal potential for 200 points.
Having said that Judicators are one of the good buffs but are very very costly.
Huge numbers of options doesn't make any of them competitive, Vindictors are unarguably better then all other non-conditional battleline.
Bear in mind Liberators do not get counts as 3 or objective defence buffs unless in a Stormkeep which removed all of the traditional fun stuff that most of us built our thousands of points of Stormcast around to this point.
Palladors are ok, but also overcosted.
Artefacts are not amazing, not compared to what we had and are basically =/= for stuff thats in the GHB and rulebook.
Magic dragon is a 2 cast wizard with 3+ to cast 2 spells when not bracketed and has some mid tier damage, for 600 points.
They are definitely a highlight of the book but they are not worth 600 points.
Vandus literally didnt change other then to lose Intolerable Damage and probably the best command ability in the book now reduced to 1 Redeemer unit only.Gardus is good the ward bubble is very nice but locked to Hallowed Knights.
If you aren't thinking at a competitive level, then yes, this is gonna be a lot of fun but for anyone who were hoping their thousands of dollars and points were going to be competitive again its a bit of a let down.I have 40 Sequitors, 20 Liberators, 30 Paladins, Dracoths etc that will all not see use ever over Vindictors, Paladins and basically the stuff from Dominion.
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11 minutes ago, The World Tree said:
Liking what I'm seeing
- cannot wait!
Is there a points leak anywhere?
youtube has several videos of full battletome reviews.
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Have been ULTRA hype for this for months and the book is over all a major let down.
Vindictors are just so much better then all other battleline that its really just impossible to justify anything else especially when you consider cost.Knight Relictor is possibly the worst warscroll I've ever seen, 3 attacks 3s and 3s 1 rend 1 damage.
He gives a 4+ shrug to units near him against prayers and he's 140 points.
Thats literally it.Most oldcast didnt get touched if they did it was a nerf, all mounts lost mount damage on 6s, Intolerable Damage etc
Judicators are better then they were but are now 200 points so priced out of being competitive.
Castigators are actually usable but not great, just D3 shots as opposed to 1 for 105.All the units that were ignored forever are the same, Taurolon, Celestants and Libs are not worth taking over other options.
Artefacts and Traits were gutted, Stormhosts are now ok but huge nerfs to Anvils.
The dragon characters are ok but I probably wouldnt trade them for Carthalos and Yndrasta for one of them.I am really disappointed.
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2 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:
I mean this is just prime gw design. Making things more complex then necessary. I their main design goal. All that was needed to make supper clear. Was This rule counts as /does not count as a ward save at the end of the rule.
Precisely.
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1 hour ago, Mutton said:
Because they don't need to, it's codified in the core rules now what a ward save is. When you're writing the description for an ability like the Praetor, you're writing the sequence of possible events of a die roll. The Praetor's have a Ward, but it also has other conditions attached to it, like rolling low enough that the wound isn't passed to them at all.
You wouldn't say: "on a 1-2 the hero takes the wound, on a 3-4 the Praetors take the wound, on a 5+ they have a ward and negate the wound." It's just awkward and overly long. For this particular unit, their ability is more complex than simply "5+ ward"Or "Praetors confer a ward save to the hero they select with the following conditions"?
And the whole point of this edition is to make stuff like this VERY clear, so not having the word they just created to clarify this issue to me reads as though it is NOT that rule.
Any other system, this would be the case.Edit: GMG and goonhammer have all published articles/videos working on the assumption that it is not a ward, so its not just me
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23 minutes ago, Mutton said:
This isn't true. Anything that negates wounds is now considered a Ward save.
"Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to negate a
wound before it is allocated to a model. Abilities of
this type are referred to as wards, and the dice roll
is referred to as a ward roll."
As for the Praetors, it would be considered a Ward because it is an ability that can negate wounds. So if you had them near Yndrasta, you'd have to choose whether to use her 4+ ward, or to use their Guardian ability, since you only get one chance to negate an incoming wound.
So you could not roll Yn's 4+ ward, then pass it off to the Praetors. No doubling up.
They didn't do away with 5+++ saves only to bring them back with Wards. Not how it works.But why not include the word anywhere in the rule?
Why invent the rule then create a rule that does not reference it in any way when it would have been so easy to do so? -
43 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:
If it's not called a Ward, then it's not a Ward. That is a different mechanic; the two can be mixed.
The problem people are having (not me, I agree with you 100%) is the wording of the ward save rule says any rolls that happen at that point are all ward saves.
But why would they invent this rule/keyword then write a rule that would specifically fall under it and not call it a ward save or use the word ward in it. -
The real question is: Is the Praetors ability a Ward Save?
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I for one do not think yesterdays preview was about KO it was only about Tzeentch changes and new items, I think they're holding off on info about any KO terrain pieces etc for the next week of articles they always do with a new release.
It was clear to me upon first read that it was being purposefully obtuse as to not give anything away. -
39 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Well In the skaven battletome, there have been mentions of a weapon that could kill any god, thus for the council of 13 were punished by their god an a few decades later We were born Yes-yes
One of my absolute favourite pieces of AOS fluff.
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22 minutes ago, Whitefang said:
You need to read more then.
Try Nagash the undying king and Black pyramid
I have and in neither book does Nagash use innate ability to click his fingers and instantly kill an entire army.
His powers are bolstered immensely by the black pyramid and even so he was unable to defeat the Stormcast and their allies defensing Glymmsforge, for instance.
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On 9/14/2019 at 5:49 AM, Overread said:
Yes but according to the Lore Nagash rules DEATH - he can snap a finger and your whole army is DEAD
I'm not sure where this idea comes from but having read most of the AOS books regarding him and other gods in the Mortal Realms I've never read anything to suggest Nagash or anyone else has the power to just unmake an entire army.
The problem is we assume a "God" has the same power and abilities as the Judeo-Christian "God" or monotheistic god were used too but that is not true at all among the mortal realms.
In the Age of Sigmar universe the best definition really of a god is someone of a power substantially above that of the other denizens of the realms.
Sigmar can teleport armies across vast distances, he can see just about anywhere in the realms and he's potentially the most powerful single combatant in the material world. Possibly only Dracothian is stronger.
Nagash can summon and enslave the dead and has a vast understanding of the dark side of magic and is a near unmatched wielder of that magic, he can use spells that give him power over dead creatures and enslave those who are dead but he can not instantly kill anyone with a thought as we'd imagine a "god if death' in our real world could.
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None of those characters are "Returning to the mortal realms" as far as I know?
Also they survived Sigmars hammer, Krell was dead before the ascent of Sigmar.
Same goes for Settra.
and Vlad is just a complete rando suggestion lol
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5 hours ago, stratigo said:
Arkanauts are op what? Who thinks this? On base stats Arkanauts are a weak unit. They underperform heavily compared to most battle lines.
What makes them them good is that you can khemist buff them. Their entire existence revolves around one synergy
Ill say that it isnt my opinion just something Ive seen in other forums/places as they continue to crop up a lot in order armies.
However I disagree they are weak, hitting and wounding on 4s in combat, 2 standard ranged shots, a +1 to hit ability to heroes and monsters and stats wise they are basically the same as everyone else.
But add in heavy weapons and shooting.
Liberators are a unit of 5 for instance with no ranged whatsoever, the unit has the same amount of attacks and wounds, they have +1 better save and only beat arkanauts on to wound rolls, otherwise the unit is nearly the same, but Arkanauts can shoot very very well. -
6 hours ago, mikethefish said:
So I get that this is pretty far afield of KO discussion, but the pedant in me can't let this go. Apologies.
I am building the Sequitors set right at this moment. I am looking at the sprues, and I am looking at the instruction booklet. There are four Greatmaces in a kit. Not five. Four.
Ah you're correct I just looked at my prime, whom I built many moons ago and her stowed weapon is a standard hammer, but Ive always run it as a grandhammer, no ones ever cared lol
Doesn't negate the fact that the new whats in the box style rules have been implemented after the Sequitor release.
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9 hours ago, nine7six said:
anyone see the points for the shadespire models in the app? Hope it’s not a sign of things to come.... 260 for the named khemist!!
The 260 includes all the other KO in that shadespire team too and they all act independently! Which is awesome.
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Man if we're wishlisting, soooo much stuff.
I want a heavy cav unit, some sort of jet bike or power-armored marine who has multiple wounds, IE 3+ and has awesome melee weapons, chainswords, powerfits etc
A unit of heavy elite marines that are purely melee, powered armor like the Admiral or Endrinmaster that gives them a 3+ or similiar with rerolls and they have some sort of jump pack rule that in fluff terms they use to leap from ship to ship to defend against enemy boarding actions or onto enemy ships or fortress walls etc and they use powered hammers like the Super Sledge in Fallout 4 (uses a tiny jet motor to thrust the hammer head forward, hilariously)
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35 minutes ago, mikethefish said:
Disagree with this assessment
There is a difference between a unit being undercosted, and being the only unit in the entire book that actually performs the function that it was intended to perform (with the sole exception of maybe Endrinriggers).
Those things are not mutually exclusive.
But there are no other ranged units in the game that can put out even close to as much damage as a 10 squad of Arkanauts and be that cheap, hence the reason they are so popular.
Judicators are battleline and can do 5 shots, one of which is a possible D6 damage but they are 160 points.
Darkshards 16 inches 2 shots and hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s with no speciality weapons at all and they are 100!
Vs every model in an Arko company getting 2 shots minimum hitting and wounding on 4s with a 12 inch range, then 3 of them get a 24 in range can opener for 120 not to mention their offensive profile is almost as good as the Judicators, they would almost certainly beat every other ranged unit I can think of in melee also.They also contribute to the "gunline" style of play which GW have specifically said they are trying to discourage, which infuriates me as a KO player because every single model I own shoots.
Am I supposed to tool out my Arko's with Skypikes and cripple my damage output?
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Both the Thunderers rework and the Stormcast book were published before Beasts of Chaos and implementation of the system he mentions so both are moot examples.
Edit: The Sequitor box does come with 5 Greatmaces, 4 standard and 2 more, 1 for a prime of each sex.
The incentive to change the warscroll is that Arkonauts are largely considered to be undercosted and overpowered for their roll and price and as such pop up in many many order faction and mixed order lists.
As a KO player to win, I feel I rely way too heavily on the performance of my battleline that are incredibly fragile, I win or lose games based on them entirely, the rest of the book is borderline worthless in terms of damage or other battlefield roles, my argument is that I believe its clear they will change Arkanauts but they will redress the unit and the book to make everything better so I'll take the trade.
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"For example you can see from Beast of Chaos onwards on a warscroll the banner bearer and the musician will be limited to the number you get in the box so for instance, the Ungor raiders can have one musician and one banner bearer and thats because for me I didn't want to have to find extra banners and extra horns and strap them on every one of my models"
He says the word example and the phrase "for instance" a number of times throughout, using this as an example and the above quote is very clearly about what is in the box, becoming the norm, which they have done since Beasts of Chaos because its silly and frustrating, as he notes to have to find items that arent in the box to equip a unit the way the game recommends.
I think the intention of his comment was very clear, not sure how else to read it.
Ill be clear Im a KO player and I dont want this change unless the rest of the units rules or the army book compensates for the loss of damage.
People have quoted another source and Ive asked for that article but waiting for the person to find it.
Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
Okay so Ive been struggling all night with this book, it was a real let down to begin with as we all expected to get the elite army we have wanted to play since 1.0 but we didnt.
I think what we got, was an army based around the idea of "reasonable" battleline and support units that will be working to support and drive reallllly powerful units.
The new Dragon Riders, Dragon Knights, Annihilators and Bastion are INSANE.
The Dragon Riding dudes are going to break the current game wide open, they are berserk especially in certain Stormhosts.
Bastion is going to present some rules problems, (does his heal work when he uses his ranged ability?) but he is an auto take for me and hammers buff and work with the dragons so that is a strong option.
Meta is massively monster favoured atm too, so having units able to capitalise on both objective and battle tactic shinanigans is hawt, but in templars they can be immune to your enemies monsterous abilities too so that could also be very potent.
I think ranged options are pretty potent, Ballista are disappointing but they will still be useable for certain armies.
My idea so far is 3x5 Vindictors for objective capping.
Knight Draconis
Bastion
8 Drake Guard (however they split unit wise)
and ranged option for ranged pressure and to distract.