cadmachine

Okay so Ive been struggling all night with this book, it was a real let down to begin with as we all expected to get the elite army we have wanted to play since 1.0 but we didnt. I think what we got, was an army based around the idea of "reasonable" battleline and support units that will be working to support and drive reallllly powerful units. The new Dragon Riders, Dragon Knights, Annihilators and Bastion are INSANE. The Dragon Riding dudes are going to break the current game wide open, they are berserk especially in certain Stormhosts. Bastion is going to present some rules problems, (does his heal work when he uses his ranged ability?) but he is an auto take for me and hammers buff and work with the dragons so that is a strong option. Meta is massively monster favoured atm too, so having units able to capitalise on both objective and battle tactic shinanigans is hawt, but in templars they can be immune to your enemies monsterous abilities too so that could also be very potent. I think ranged options are pretty potent, Ballista are disappointing but they will still be useable for certain armies. My idea so far is 3x5 Vindictors for objective capping. Knight Draconis Bastion 8 Drake Guard (however they split unit wise) and ranged option for ranged pressure and to distract.

Sequitors are definitely one of the better choices after Vinnies, they hit and wound on 3s and have good abilities and are going to tough to remove when they are buffed and in the right Stormhost. Evocators are good they aren't going to win you any games but they won't let you down if you use them right either. There's alot to be seen as we come up with combos and synergies over the coming days too.

Problem is even some of the new stuff is uncompetitive. Vanquishers, Vigilors and Knight Relictors for instance are pretty much never takes over Vindictors and other heroes.

Yeah I definitely agree that there is some great stuff in there and Ill enjoy alot of it, but there are some reallllly weird decisions, odd warscrolls, some just bad buffs or nerfs and the points, oh lordy the points. Most egregious is battleline is like they over purchased Vindictor sprues and will go bankrupt if they dont sell them lol Lost ALL Command Abilities from every warscroll to be replaced by a list of mostly okish abilities that you can only have one of once per game seems so bad it seems like a mistake and they left a page out of the book? Knight Relictor might be the worst warscroll I've ever seen especially given its points cost. Stormhosts are now ok, but nothing special. and the Celestar Ballista is a real let down, literally the only warscroll I can think of published in the last 2 years that has no special rules, while the Kruleboyz bolt thrower got one of the most potent series of rules I've seen in years.

Ok man lol but that makes your lack of insight all the more odd.

Sounds like you dont know alot about the army to be honest. S territory is absolutely a joke. Judicators are 2 shots 3s and 3s one damage with mortal potential for 200 points. Having said that Judicators are one of the good buffs but are very very costly. Huge numbers of options doesn't make any of them competitive, Vindictors are unarguably better then all other non-conditional battleline. Bear in mind Liberators do not get counts as 3 or objective defence buffs unless in a Stormkeep which removed all of the traditional fun stuff that most of us built our thousands of points of Stormcast around to this point. Palladors are ok, but also overcosted. Artefacts are not amazing, not compared to what we had and are basically =/= for stuff thats in the GHB and rulebook. Magic dragon is a 2 cast wizard with 3+ to cast 2 spells when not bracketed and has some mid tier damage, for 600 points. They are definitely a highlight of the book but they are not worth 600 points. Vandus literally didnt change other then to lose Intolerable Damage and probably the best command ability in the book now reduced to 1 Redeemer unit only. Gardus is good the ward bubble is very nice but locked to Hallowed Knights. If you aren't thinking at a competitive level, then yes, this is gonna be a lot of fun but for anyone who were hoping their thousands of dollars and points were going to be competitive again its a bit of a let down. I have 40 Sequitors, 20 Liberators, 30 Paladins, Dracoths etc that will all not see use ever over Vindictors, Paladins and basically the stuff from Dominion.

youtube has several videos of full battletome reviews.

Have been ULTRA hype for this for months and the book is over all a major let down. Vindictors are just so much better then all other battleline that its really just impossible to justify anything else especially when you consider cost. Knight Relictor is possibly the worst warscroll I've ever seen, 3 attacks 3s and 3s 1 rend 1 damage. He gives a 4+ shrug to units near him against prayers and he's 140 points. Thats literally it. Most oldcast didnt get touched if they did it was a nerf, all mounts lost mount damage on 6s, Intolerable Damage etc Judicators are better then they were but are now 200 points so priced out of being competitive. Castigators are actually usable but not great, just D3 shots as opposed to 1 for 105. All the units that were ignored forever are the same, Taurolon, Celestants and Libs are not worth taking over other options. Artefacts and Traits were gutted, Stormhosts are now ok but huge nerfs to Anvils. The dragon characters are ok but I probably wouldnt trade them for Carthalos and Yndrasta for one of them. I am really disappointed.

Precisely.

Or "Praetors confer a ward save to the hero they select with the following conditions"? And the whole point of this edition is to make stuff like this VERY clear, so not having the word they just created to clarify this issue to me reads as though it is NOT that rule. Any other system, this would be the case. Edit: GMG and goonhammer have all published articles/videos working on the assumption that it is not a ward, so its not just me

But why not include the word anywhere in the rule? Why invent the rule then create a rule that does not reference it in any way when it would have been so easy to do so?

The problem people are having (not me, I agree with you 100%) is the wording of the ward save rule says any rolls that happen at that point are all ward saves. But why would they invent this rule/keyword then write a rule that would specifically fall under it and not call it a ward save or use the word ward in it.

The real question is: Is the Praetors ability a Ward Save?

I for one do not think yesterdays preview was about KO it was only about Tzeentch changes and new items, I think they're holding off on info about any KO terrain pieces etc for the next week of articles they always do with a new release. It was clear to me upon first read that it was being purposefully obtuse as to not give anything away.

One of my absolute favourite pieces of AOS fluff.

I have and in neither book does Nagash use innate ability to click his fingers and instantly kill an entire army. His powers are bolstered immensely by the black pyramid and even so he was unable to defeat the Stormcast and their allies defensing Glymmsforge, for instance.

I'm not sure where this idea comes from but having read most of the AOS books regarding him and other gods in the Mortal Realms I've never read anything to suggest Nagash or anyone else has the power to just unmake an entire army. The problem is we assume a "God" has the same power and abilities as the Judeo-Christian "God" or monotheistic god were used too but that is not true at all among the mortal realms. In the Age of Sigmar universe the best definition really of a god is someone of a power substantially above that of the other denizens of the realms. Sigmar can teleport armies across vast distances, he can see just about anywhere in the realms and he's potentially the most powerful single combatant in the material world. Possibly only Dracothian is stronger. Nagash can summon and enslave the dead and has a vast understanding of the dark side of magic and is a near unmatched wielder of that magic, he can use spells that give him power over dead creatures and enslave those who are dead but he can not instantly kill anyone with a thought as we'd imagine a "god if death' in our real world could.

None of those characters are "Returning to the mortal realms" as far as I know? Also they survived Sigmars hammer, Krell was dead before the ascent of Sigmar. Same goes for Settra. and Vlad is just a complete rando suggestion lol

Ill say that it isnt my opinion just something Ive seen in other forums/places as they continue to crop up a lot in order armies. However I disagree they are weak, hitting and wounding on 4s in combat, 2 standard ranged shots, a +1 to hit ability to heroes and monsters and stats wise they are basically the same as everyone else. But add in heavy weapons and shooting. Liberators are a unit of 5 for instance with no ranged whatsoever, the unit has the same amount of attacks and wounds, they have +1 better save and only beat arkanauts on to wound rolls, otherwise the unit is nearly the same, but Arkanauts can shoot very very well.

Ah you're correct I just looked at my prime, whom I built many moons ago and her stowed weapon is a standard hammer, but Ive always run it as a grandhammer, no ones ever cared lol Doesn't negate the fact that the new whats in the box style rules have been implemented after the Sequitor release.

The 260 includes all the other KO in that shadespire team too and they all act independently! Which is awesome.

Man if we're wishlisting, soooo much stuff. I want a heavy cav unit, some sort of jet bike or power-armored marine who has multiple wounds, IE 3+ and has awesome melee weapons, chainswords, powerfits etc A unit of heavy elite marines that are purely melee, powered armor like the Admiral or Endrinmaster that gives them a 3+ or similiar with rerolls and they have some sort of jump pack rule that in fluff terms they use to leap from ship to ship to defend against enemy boarding actions or onto enemy ships or fortress walls etc and they use powered hammers like the Super Sledge in Fallout 4 (uses a tiny jet motor to thrust the hammer head forward, hilariously)

Those things are not mutually exclusive. But there are no other ranged units in the game that can put out even close to as much damage as a 10 squad of Arkanauts and be that cheap, hence the reason they are so popular. Judicators are battleline and can do 5 shots, one of which is a possible D6 damage but they are 160 points. Darkshards 16 inches 2 shots and hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s with no speciality weapons at all and they are 100! Vs every model in an Arko company getting 2 shots minimum hitting and wounding on 4s with a 12 inch range, then 3 of them get a 24 in range can opener for 120 not to mention their offensive profile is almost as good as the Judicators, they would almost certainly beat every other ranged unit I can think of in melee also. They also contribute to the "gunline" style of play which GW have specifically said they are trying to discourage, which infuriates me as a KO player because every single model I own shoots. Am I supposed to tool out my Arko's with Skypikes and cripple my damage output?

Both the Thunderers rework and the Stormcast book were published before Beasts of Chaos and implementation of the system he mentions so both are moot examples. Edit: The Sequitor box does come with 5 Greatmaces, 4 standard and 2 more, 1 for a prime of each sex. The incentive to change the warscroll is that Arkonauts are largely considered to be undercosted and overpowered for their roll and price and as such pop up in many many order faction and mixed order lists. As a KO player to win, I feel I rely way too heavily on the performance of my battleline that are incredibly fragile, I win or lose games based on them entirely, the rest of the book is borderline worthless in terms of damage or other battlefield roles, my argument is that I believe its clear they will change Arkanauts but they will redress the unit and the book to make everything better so I'll take the trade.

"For example you can see from Beast of Chaos onwards on a warscroll the banner bearer and the musician will be limited to the number you get in the box so for instance, the Ungor raiders can have one musician and one banner bearer and thats because for me I didn't want to have to find extra banners and extra horns and strap them on every one of my models" He says the word example and the phrase "for instance" a number of times throughout, using this as an example and the above quote is very clearly about what is in the box, becoming the norm, which they have done since Beasts of Chaos because its silly and frustrating, as he notes to have to find items that arent in the box to equip a unit the way the game recommends. I think the intention of his comment was very clear, not sure how else to read it. Ill be clear Im a KO player and I dont want this change unless the rest of the units rules or the army book compensates for the loss of damage. People have quoted another source and Ive asked for that article but waiting for the person to find it.