Ravinsild
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Posts posted by Ravinsild
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2 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:
The Nurgle one for turning off wards is probably the only use I can think of.
Make him General with the trait to use a 2nd heroic action so he is always doing his thing or looking for CP while your wizard does the 3D6 cast.
Otherwise I agree, no use.
It’s just 195 points for kind of a nothing burger unit. Khorne might be a useful damage sponge (maybe) between a 3+ save, 6+ ward, kill a chaff unit or screen to heal and run the Dark Radiance Command Trait to heal himself and Allies.
Nurgle to counter stuff like SBGL and Nurgle (lol), Fyreslayers, DoK, Nighthaunt etc…
I have no idea for the others. Who cares if a unit that will probably average 4-5 damage against a 4+ save fights first…
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What are Daemon Princes for this BT? They seem like support pieces because they are not particularly Killy and seem weaker than the previous Battletome since they no longer have a sword/axe AND claws. It’s one weapon and then maybe a kind of supportive heroic action/command ability thing.
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2 hours ago, Bayul said:
Salty rant:
I am drawn to Tzeentch and Undivided for Cabalists thematically, but I can't put a list together that isn't unreliable jank. I have a Necrons and Thousand Sons Codex next to me with the same problem. Only two specific Cults / Dynasties are essential for list building and the rest isn't even mentioned anymore. Point changes and Dataslates* don't have any impact on internal balance.
While this doesn't matter in casual games most of the time, you'll notice the difference in mirror matches with the optimal choice very quickly. If I remember correctly even S2D players played Tzeentch most of the time with the last tome and I predict a similar efffect with Nurgle or Khorne (and Host of the Everchosen)
*Warhammer 40K's BattlescrollsYeah I feel like a lucky winner of the balancing lottery. Last tome it was “all marauders all the time and Archaon or don’t show up” and I just wanted to use chaos warriors, knights and chosen and have a kind of themed army. I don’t want to use Archaon I don’t want to have like 3 models on the table just 30-40 models not too small not too big. Finally it seems the balance gods have blessed me and my favorite god is in style but like every other Battletome I’ve ever had the way I want to actually play is always somehow the worst.
”spam ArdBoyz only no Gore Gruntas no brutes.” Etc..
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Yeah, and uh, some of us have just been Khorne fans since forever. I'll never forget the day I found World Eaters Khorne Berserkers. I had kept asking the GW manager about how I wanted an aggressive melee army, and somehow my first army ever was Grey Knights because they all had swords and pikes and spears and such, but well..they're a psychic army who can kind of fight. Then I went Space Wolves and you know, they're alright. Then finally, somehow, someway I tried World Eaters with Khorne Berserkers and it all just clicked.
Hoped AOS had the equivalent, but Bloodbound...are a big disappointment, so I've been playing Ironjawz for that rush at 'em feeling. Now, finally, it looks like Khorne might just be as aggro in this battletome as I hoped. Shove models forward do damage blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne, notice me senpai (EotG) oop I became a daemon prince of khorne.-
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18 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:
As much as i like the Khorne mark it has pretty limited potential. It only last for one round of combat. This isn't a new mechanic, lots of things get bonus on charges, and its often not relied upon cuz your lucky to get more than one charge off per game per unit (particularly non-hammers), where as the other marks are every turn bonus all game.
The Blood Secrator may seem like a good choice but you would basically have to forgo magic as he forces even you to reroll successful cast and your not slinging endless spells around. The Sorc Lord is still pretty much an auto include in my book still. The auto 6+ ward is a far cry from a flat +1 save but its still better than nothing and his spell is still incredibly strong, i noticed there was very limited ways to get +1 to hit now. I think currently the Blood Stoker is better Khorne option.
The Gaunt Summoner possibly getting sniped top of turn 1 makes it not worth trying. Even if it works sometimes its super gimmicky gotcha thing that has hard counters.
It feels like 5 Knights doesnt capitalize on their lance range enuff. I played a game the other day and had a unit of 10 Knights marked Khorne with the banner and they slapped but that had a lot to do with all of them getting to attack.
I did get the Kark Lords special ability off but it actually kinda boned me cuz he fights first then Knights do. The problem is that this can only happen during your own turn where you get to fight first anyway which left my Varanguard exposed to getting smacked before they could kill their target. If it allowed you to fight at the top of enemies turn it would be far more impactful.
Don't forget for 1 CP you can gain an aura wholly within 12'' with the Aspiring Deathbringer, as a magical friendly alternative to the Bloodsecrator for the low low price of 80 points.
Alternatively, for only 20 more points than the Bloodsecrator, you could include a unit of Wrathmongers who are interesting in their own way, and as a follow along unit can provide another unit (basically) a +1 to attack. Khorne has several ally units which could provide +1 to attack, however this again seems like a limited lifespan opportunity.
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I was considering a list rocking Darkoath Savagers and the Chieftan (because I already own him from Silver Tower and did paint him) and also the rest of the stuff I mentioned. I would probably not run anything else because I hate all the other cultists models and marauders. My “thing” is pure legions of full black plate mail all helmeted as one black legion marching forward. All chaos warrior style variants. I think for me that’s the coolest most iconic chaos army you can get.
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I happen to have a Bloodstoker on the Sprue but I find it too difficult to find points for much or anything.
My list is looking like 1 Daemon Prince of either Khorne or Nurgle.
1 Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount marked Khorne
1 Chaos Lord on Foot marked Khorne
1 Either Tzeentch or Undivided Chaos Sorcerer Lord
2 sets of 10 Chaos Warriors my heart wants to run as Khorne but my brain says to run as Nurgle
2 sets of 5 Knights marked Khorne
2 sets of Chosen marked Khorne
if I am not mistaken this will run me 1980 points and every piece feels difficult to drop haha
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10 minutes ago, Bayul said:
That's Orks. You want to play Orks. You didn't even mention the words "Blood" or "Skulls"!
I already play Ironjawz haha. Khorne looks like it’s going to be very similar this battletome
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Man I want my strategic decisions to basically be “who do I attack first, and in what order do I roll my attack order?” Lol. I want to push dudes forward, roll to charge and start swinging the true Khorne way.
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23 minutes ago, Bayul said:
I hate that this is already a thing.
Yeah I’m really resistant to run anything that isn’t Khorne. I’m still resistant to run the unquestionably actually good Nurgle mark Chaos Warriors with banner… but like… Khorne is my favorite. I also want to run a Khorne Daemon Prince even though based at least on AoS statshammer he would only do maybe 5 wounds to a 4+ save so that’s not very good for 195 pts right?
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As a world eaters fan, this comes the closest I could ever want to AoS World Eaters. Battleline Chosen who fight twice (once per game but still) who are basically Khorne Berserkers in fantasy (finally), plus basically the Butcher’s Nails (+1 attack on the charge) like I’m so hype it’s finally here. With the banner even you could pretend it’s like +1 strength (there is no strength stat but strength effect wound rolls so).
So finally there’s a balls to the wall push everything forward Khorne Army that is pure adrenaline aggro who wants nothing more than to get stuck in. No fiddle aura. No weird “fight after you die” stuff etc. i sold all my Khorne Bloodbound because they played like a melee defensive counter punch turtle army instead of fast reckless maniacs who charge across the board asap.
so I have personally been trying to find ways to make Khorne Chosen work. Also I’d love Khorne Chaos Warriors to be a thing, but I feel as though for their purpose (anvils) Nurgle is just way too good to pass up, but I might run mono Khorne anyway because it’s not like I’m going to tournaments. Even if I were, I bet Khorne Chaos Warriors might slap really hard. In enemy territory or fighting for objectives on the charge they feel like they could put out reasonable damage.
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1 hour ago, LordDave said:
That’s my plan too, not sure how competitive it is but I’m planning on something like this…
Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: HotEC
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presenece
Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (195)*
- General
- Axe
- Command Trait: Idolator Lord
- Artefact: Conqueror’s Crown
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Prayers: Heal & Curse
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (220)*
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170)*
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Bloodsecrator (125)*
- Allies
Battleline
5 x Chaos Knights (230)*
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Ensorcelled Banner: Banner of Rage
5 x Chaos Knights (230)*
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Ensorcelled Banner: Banner of Rage
1 x Chaos Chariots (100)**
- Greatblades
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Warriors (220)***
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Warriors (220)***
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Units
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)
- Allies
Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (185)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Prayers: Heal & Curse
Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Bounty Hunters
***Expert Conquerors
Additional Enhancements
Prayer
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 230 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 11
Where were you able to make this list?
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Of course I’m trying to figure out how to get Chosen marked as Khorne into combat. And whether 1 unit of 5 is sufficient or if 2 units of 5 or even 1 unit of 10 is better.
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Thought experiment: Saw someone equate Chosen to Paladins, they said they are Chaos Paladins. Apparently one of the things that "allows" Paladins to be good is deep strike, to the best of my understanding. Someone posted that while Chosen might be good, they're slow and it might be a problem getting them to where they are going.
While I know of no way to stack a +1 to charge roll with this iteration, is it plausible a Gaunt Summoner (on Disc or Otherwise) and a Tzeentch Marked Chosen unit could be deepstruck via the Silver Tower ability?
My concerns would be no way to deliver (Apparently Stormcast have a way to make the roll 7+ out of deepstrike which is more reliable) out of deepstrike, and loss of offensive power because it's been observed by some that the Tzeentch Mark is pretty weak in this book.
Still, something to think about, maybe. -
9 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:
Also, at that point his damage per point goes way down because the cost is effectively 80 points higher (or thereabouts, presumably you can get additional use out of the allied unit, but still).
Speaking of 80 pt allies, I'm actually looking at Ungor Raiders for screens. They're now cheaper than Untamed Beasts for the pre-game move use, and the ranged attacks (while terrible natively) work well if you can get Curse off through an Idolator Lord. Plus, they're both fast and cheap for sitting on objectives, and theoretically knock a wound or two off something lightly armored while waiting for Curse to hit. Basically, I don't ask for much at that price, especially if the only synergies it requires to punch above its weight are things I was already taking for other reasons.
Well the Bloodstoker seems like he’d be good for literally any Khorne Mortal unit, Knights, Lords, Chosen, even Chaos Warriors to hoof it to an objective asap. I think he’s just a rock solid ally. Also been looking at maybe an Aspiring Deathbringer who I feel is more valuable than a Bloodsecrator because the Bloodsecrator, without careful positioning, will interfere with my chaos lord trying to do his thing (daemonic power probably).
I’m trying to find ways to marry synergy with the heavy armored look. I’m trying to avoid marauders, cultists and units like that in favor of a fully heavy black plate armor fist of doom, Chaos Lords of all varieties, Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights, Chosen and that ilk and I’d say most Khorne Mortal units fit that description as well overall.
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It’s probably not really worth mentioning or relying upon but for a mere 80 points ally you could potentially give him +3 to run and charge rolls in addition to re-rolling wound rolls. However I am unsure if there’s a way to also somehow pile on run and charge without dipping into Slaanesh which defeats the point.
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1 minute ago, Swooper said:
Yes, but the foot lord doesn't have Strike First himself so he activates in the regular part of the combat phase.
Aaaaah I see, yes of course. That’s why I called it a pseudo-smashing and bashing, it’s not really that but it’s more like fight twice in a row (Mount lord, unit of knights), opponent swings back, Fight Lord, then fight Chosen, so it’s 4 activations to your opponents 1 I think.
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38 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:
Common mistake I keep seeing--the foot lord doesn't enable a unit to strike first like the mounted lords do. At best, he removes strike last (which is still good on Chosen and in some other circumstances, like against Sylvaneth or in the mirror).
As for my MVP units, they are a bit less reliable than some people's choices, but I think Undivided Chosen with the Dread Banner are going to be spicy. Reduces their chance of the free EotG roll being wasted, and any future ones they get by killing heroes or taking objectives are more likely to be good as well. I'd happily take any of the results of 4+ on a 1d6 EotG for Chosen, and two bites at that is much better than one.
Are you sure? It reads to me like he fights, and then, just like the Mounted Lord, he allows the retinue (Warrior or Chosen) to fight immediately?
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4 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
It's interesting. I for one hate Nurgle XD
Same. I’m going to try a few games as fully Khorne and if it really really doesn’t work I’ll cave and run the Nurgle warrior block but my how I wish I could just run mono Khorne. I don’t like Bloodbound because they don’t play aggressive enough for me. With this rework of Khorne it feels like they’re finally World Eaters lite, able to fight twice in some circumstances, able to dish out mortal wounds on the charge, then just explode into a flurry of violence. It feels very aggro where you just push models forward and roll dice instead of huddling up in a big bubble and being a defensive counter punch army which is what Bloodbound realistically is. I had 10,000 points of Bloodbound and sold it all because it’s just not Khorne.
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I was going to run my Chosen as Khorne, personally but it’s just because it’s my favorite god and I hate Slaanesh.
I am also debating between a Chaos Lord on Foot in order to enable them to strike first. In a way in my mind I might build a list of something like a DP escorting 20 Warriors (msu 2 sets of 10 for more objective getting) a Karkadrak lord escorting 2 sets of 5 and then a foot lord with 1 to 2 sets of 5 Chosen in order to pull something like a pseudo-Smashing and Bashing similar to Ironjawz.
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What do we feel like some of the big winners or mvp units will be in this Battletome? Common core heroes that should probably be in every list, and units? Do we have any ideas?
im trying to assess if the manticore lord is worth considering it no longer brackets, but I like his command trait a lot less comparatively
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We have seen some leaks for the Slaves to Darkness battletome, but do we have any rumours about how said leaks will be released? Will they be bros and release Command Groups for those of us that bought the Start Collecting! boxes with no musicians or banners for Knights and Warriors or am I going to have to buy like 10 boxes to get a handful of functioning squads with all the right equipment?
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3 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:
Khorne Knights with lances are decent on the charge but usually that is only gonna happen once a game and maybe not at all.
I like Chosen but they gotta fight first and are very susceptible to ranged attacks.
Personally i haven't used Fomoroid. They seem ok but dicey. Could do a bunch of dmg or almost none.
Basically their ok but not very dependable. Varanguard are rock, paper, scissors as well but have only one weakness wich is non-magical mortal wounds and better rng chances.
For me at least it would be that even if I dropped the knights and Fomoroid in order to take Varanguard I still don’t have the points (if only they were 270 but alas) and on top of that then I would have only 1 battleline and my list would be illegal
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13 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:
@Ravinsild that looks a lot like the kind of lists i usually run but i use Manticore Sorc instead of DP and Varanguard instead of Fomoroid/Chosen. Right now your list lacks any real punch and the heroes are easy to snipe off.
The Lord on Foot is a favorite of mine. If you changed the Sorc Lord spell to Binding Damnation and the Warshrine prayer to Curse it makes nice combo. Cast Damnation and Curse on enemy target then Demon Power and Spurred by Gods command your unit.
The enemy unit fights last after your unit fights twice rerolling all hit/wound doing mortals on 6 to hit. You could take out a monster with 20 Warriors otherwise bring its profile way down.
Not to argue but using the mathhammer app to me, personally, it looked like Knights and Chosen had a punch.
also idk if it’s punchy but Fomoroid look like they cause a bunch of mortal wounds.
AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Yeah you pick one of either the Axe, Hellforged Sword OR Malefic Talons. They did make it so that it was 5 attacks which is 1 less than 3 axe, 3 talons, and brought the talons up to 8 attacks. Same for the Sword. I don’t think Daemon Prince were particularly good in the old book, (they were 215 points then too), and now they’re 195 with good defenses but still seems like I could get more utility from a Warshrine…