Satyrical Sophist
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Posts posted by Satyrical Sophist
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8 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I want to do mixed arms, but I wonder if the incentives are really there on the rules level. Kind of feels like running a Tank Commander would be more useful than bringing a Fusilier block plus hero for orders plus screens, since it can both issue and receive its own orders and does not need to be protected.
It does feel like fusiliers are over costed without access to flaming weapons, but I could definitely see a place as an unscreened unit if the cost fell a bit.
What is sort of funny now is that 10 fusiliers have 22 4/4/-1/1 shots at 170 while 20 corsairs with hand bows have 40 shots at 4/4/-/1 at 180, jumping to 60 shots with all out attack. Nowhere near the same range, but that’s a lot of dice.
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2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Should probably have gone back down to 150. Whatever, maybe they get good again when the edition changes in a few months.
None of the castellite units are look especially impressive right now. At the moment, cavalry lists are probably the strongest. So, Cavaliers, Cavalier Marshall, Griffin, Tahlia, with some support stuff.
That list does look nicely thematic at least. I’ve got 20 fusiliers at the moment, working on painting them at some point so I’ll give them a try. I do wonder whether access to suppressing fire and return fire might make them worth trying a bit. Mainly painting elves at the moment though.
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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
They have to be staying, though. Removing them in the hypothetical index would be maximally evil, considering the advance warning we got about everything else that was removed from Cities.
My hopeful expectation is that they get removed when/if a new cities wave with elves and dwarfs comes in, meaning proxies are possible
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9 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:
They are getting ready to get them out with the index.
Even if there are indices coming that doesn’t mean elves and dwarfs are being removed. I don’t even mean that they are necessarily staying, the space marine index had a lot of stuff in it that got removed in the codex shortly afterwards.
If you have some kind of confirmation that indices are coming can you share it, otherwise can you add some kind of “assuming 4th has indices” or “if 4th is a refresh”.
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6 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Reasonable changes IMO, although they do completely invalidate my list.
I think the Warforger change is good. Both of his buffs are still strong, but now you need to work much harder to use them and the units that they enable are now very different. What is good about the change, though, is that they make the decision making process much less linear for list buildling. Previously, Fusiliers were just the best unit to buff with Flaming Weapons. And they are a big enough investment that you probably wanted a cast bonus subfaction if you bring them. And the Master of Ballistics trait to make them more dependable. And maybe even the Macroscope to buff their range. Those choices are a lot less clear now, and there is much more reason to run the Alchemite even without a cast bonus or to pair him with other units.
The points increases for Steam Tanks are reasonable. It actually does have an effect. You lose a Tank or an important support piece in the spam list now.
I personally would have liked the Command Corps to be handled differently. All the abusive stuff is still there and they can still be spammed in theory. Double corps is now a lot more expensive, but IMO probably not to the point that we won't see it.
I like other point drops. I think Cannons are more of a real choice now, especially since Fusiliers don't get ranged mortals anymore. Now the best source of ranged pseudo-mortals is probably actually the armour piercing shell. Ogor Warhulk drop is appreciated, too, even though I don't know if it is enough to change anything.
The Tahlia drop is nice. I still think there is a Tahlia+Cavalry+Steelhelm Spam list to be discovered somewhere.
EDIT: What is conspicuously absent are points or rules changes to dwarves and elves. Sad!
I think Wildercorps deserve looking at more, assuming they ever get a release on their own. It feels like it’s been an age since the vs box was out.
I’m not surprised on the elves and dwarfs honestly, I’m really curious to see if we see more of them popping up now the flaming weapons change has happened.
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15 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:
Well, indexes are not that far in time. So who knows what we could expect from the damnified factions
Assuming that there are indices could be a lot of changes. I’m hopeful there won’t be, I quite like AoS as it is.
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22 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
Is a unit of 3 Gyrocopters better than 3 separate ones....or should one aim for a pair of Gyrobombers for the same points? I see the Copters lost 4" of natural movement for some reason. But in Misthaven and using Advance Formation, three of them could be going 15-21", which would help drop some bombs on stragglers. I like the gun on the Bomber better on its own, but getting a Curse off and using 3 Copters with Steam Guns could be spicy.
Anything focusing on copters is going to kill them, so I think single is probably the best to go for.
Battlescroll changes in for us. Some pretty heavy hits really and the points decreases don’t jump out as massively significant. Thalia going down 40 is a fairly big one. The rules change of the warforger leaves me very unsure of fusiliers. Access to return fire and suppressing fire is still big game, but I’m not sure if there still is a gun line CoS list to build. I’m gonna have a look at expected output again after the changes.
LVO winner list went up 40 points but was 1960 and is I think barely effected by the rules changes?
The steam tank runner up goes up 150 and loses flaming weapons on steam tanks though. Fair to say that one was hit much harder.
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8 minutes ago, Vagard said:
Well, Warforger's mortal wounds no longer affect missile weapons... 😐 (and the command corp take +30 pts)
This means the end of greywater spam (which is a good thing) but it increase the lack of elite human unit...
That’s pretty brutal news for fusiliers.
Bile piper rule change is a big deal for nurgle as well
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3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
At first I was wondering why that list looks so small....then I saw Gotrek
I'm thinking instead of Steelhelms I will put in a unit of Ironbreakers and a Runelord. At least the Runelord is a priest, so with him the Ironbreakers can be pretty hard to shift.
I got a Norgrimms Rune Throng last night at my FLGS............they had a Greywater Fastness Start Collecting Box, and while I wouldn't mind another 10 Ironbreakers and the Warden King, the Gyrocopter just seems terrible, but what about the Gyrobomber? Or should I just convert the Dispossessed I have to Chaos Dwarves for my The Old World army?
I think the gyro copters suffer from being in the same book as scourge runner chariots. There is always a use for small fast moving pieces that are relatively cheap though.
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3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
I always forget what a big ol' bird boi the Griffon is. I need to work out how I'm basing mine to use for both OW and AoS.
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One thing I think is worth bearing in mind is that GW has different ways of refreshing ranges and whether you would be happy for beasts of chaos to get each differing refresh. I say this as someone whose first complete AoS army was BoC (I started out with a small tzaangor based Tzeentch).
Take high elves. I think you can make a solid argument they got refreshed into Lumineth. They kept no models from the old high elves into Lumineth, but kept a lot of their themes and look. If you had a high elf army before, did you have a lumineth army afterwords? Kind of? Maybe? If you had silverhelms you could use them as dawnriders , if you had spearmen you could use them as wardens, same for archers and sentinels. You'd need to rebase though. Otherwise, phoenix guard? Maybe as the cow hat guys? That'd be about it. It did get better with later releases for bolt throwers and swordsmasters.
If beasts of chaos were in a similar situation, would you be happy? I think I would, accepting that a fair amount of my models wouldn't have a perfect match, but the theme would be executed well and refined. High elves are generic, lumineth arguably less so. If this happens then arguably beasts of chaos would leave AoS, but the Gribblescreech Hordes would still be there, continuing the Morghur story and the like.
Another refresh approach would be like gloomspite gits, seraphon and soulblight. Take an army that has a good theme already but needs hefty up to date refreshing. The amount that remains behind can vary considerably, for the moon clan part of gloomspite more or less only the basic line infantry was untouched, and troll/ggs got hefty updates and spiderfang is there. For seraphon they lost a fairly significant set of models, but got more replacements. Soulblight I think mainly got old out of date models replaced, can't recall them losing much.
If that happens then it would be hard to argue that beasts of chaos left AoS, the same way its hard to argue that Legions of Nagash left, just because they became soulblight. I think this is the least likely option, because beasts of chaos lacks a hook that isn't shared with something else. They are animal chaos people...like skaven. They want to cause the downfall of civilisation!....like destruction. I could see them being rebranded with more of the WEIRD chaos feel. Tzeentch does weird chaos, but I'd argue its a primarily magic weird and not the more primal weird. There is also less of a solid model range to lean on.
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2 minutes ago, Pizzaprez said:
But the warscrolls being free online does mitigate a big percentage of the issue for sure, and I do appreciate you pointing it out!Glad to have helped! As someone who has far too many armies as well I feel for you.
Returning to the rumour/speculation focus, does anyone remember/know how they link the data slate to the battle scroll historically? Data slate was last week (unusually on a Tuesday) but I have a vague itchy feeling in my hind brain that there is usually two weeks between the pair of them?
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Just now, Grunbag said:
I was reading again Broken realms fictions , and one part was interesting :
« Gordrakk span round, temper flashing hot. Behind him was a Bonesplitter, hulking and near-naked, his chest painted with squigstain spirals and a four-legged glyph of the Earthquake God. His posture was bent, as if he was used to carrying heavy armour, and his physique was far bulkier than your average spirit-chaser; by Gordrakk’s reckoning he’d been an Ironjaw not so long ago, and by his scars he was one that had taken a right clobbering at that. »
so according to this some Ironjawz turn to be bonesplitterz . So is there a connection planned between the warclans ?
If I remember right Bonesplitters come from all kind of orruks, just need to have something in their head go spoons and get overwhelmed by waaagh energy and run off.
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1 hour ago, Pizzaprez said:
Eventually, I'd like to own a "combined forces" army for each of the four Grand Alliances. Minimum, that's $200 an edition right now in only books so I can be up-to-date. In reality, my Free City is Sylvaneth + Kharadron + Cities, so that's three books. My Undead force is currently Soulblight + Nighthaunt and a handful of Ghouls, so another three books. Chaos is Slaves + Chaos Duardin + stuff from Orruks. Another three. I'd like my grots to have some orruk friends, so that'll be two for them.
If I wanted to roll into 4.0, able to use all the models in my collection, that's 10 books. $500 in only battletomes just to use my GW toys in the GW game. That isn't even mentioning the Seasons of War, Dawnbringers, or Broken Realms type books that I always pick up bc I love them, usually another $50 a book. For now.
What are you talking about? Do you own enough of each of those armies to play them as the main part of the force, with the rest filled with allies? You don't need the book to use allies in your main force. If you have at least 800 (or probably at least 1600) of 10 different armies then that is indeed a lot of books to be able to play each as a main force, but that is already a really heavy investment in warhammer models.
The way you are talking about stuff it really doesn't sound like you are playing matched play at all, so the book cycle doesn't really matter to you does it? Chaos Dwarfs started out as warhammer legends didn't they?
It sounds like right now if you wanted to run your models the most likely option would be ending up with 4 books. Probably Cities of Sigmar, Soulblight or Nighthaunt, Slaves to Darkness and Gloomspite. Those would let you play the most of what you have. If you end up with a full army of say, Kharadrons then you might want to get the kharadron book, but if you have a few units there really is no need. All you need for allies is in the app for free.
On an unrelated note, weren't we expecting a battlescroll today?
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12 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:
As Gutsu mentioned, it is one of the newest kits, but maybe something similar that we haven't seen yet. the hands fit 120% with the Abomination.
Rat ogor sized hellpit abominations seem like a possibility.
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5 minutes ago, Doko said:
yes im sure 100% that the comand corps gonna get that change for sure because the guy doing the changes was there.
as dwarfs buffs.....yes i would like many:
warden king: now dont need be the general to give his 6 to hit auto wound,and is choose one unit each turn.
runelord: rollback to old scroll,with +2 to cancell spells,the prayer affect to irondrakes and 2+(same old scroll)
enginer: some usefull as +1 rend to copters or +1 wound to shooting dwarfs or somethimg usefull
longbeards: up to 150 but give +1 wound to dwarfs units within 9"
ironbreakers: down to 110
hammerers: they are fine
irondrakes: down to 130
gyrocopters: reverted to old scroll of flamer or down to 60
gyrobomber: down to 90
shieldwall order: changed to be used in hero phase and give ward 5 to a unit dwarfs within 3" for entire game and only loose it if you do a charge
order of 3" move changed to add irondrakes to count as not moved.
deleted the order of mortals at 5+ when one dwarf die.
new order: one unit of dwarfs within 3" gain +1 atk used in charge phase,or in place of this could be mortals with 6 to hit to do usefull to ironbreakers.
also would be cool for lore give to every dwarf unit a ignore spells with 5+
Doing all of those changes would be insane. A fair few of them would probably be too powerful just on their own. You could probably do the warden king one and the magic ignore. I think all the others would be problematic?
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55 minutes ago, Doko said:
rigth now citys have 50% win rate and have needed months since the release to win the first tournament.
people are crazy crying for nerfs to citys only because they went both to the lvo finnals,but these persons forget how there are other 200+ tournaments where citys is missing.
its only one tournament inside of others 200+ tournaments,no more and no less.
to me city could use some targeted nerf as ignite weapons only to one unit(but then reduce in points both fusilers and the mage) or give unique to comand corps.
even steam tanks could get a +10 only to do happy to the cryers.
but also every dwarf unit need decreases,the dwarf orders,enhacements etc need huge buffs etc.
also i really like and preffer use the dark ryders to shut down cp before comand corps,its for every cp and not only one.(in case they do unique to comand corps)
Cities really haven’t been out very long. The main release was only beginning of November, they also aren’t the easiest to paint, that time included Christmas and it’s a book with a lot of different units . I’m not surprised it’s taking awhile for results to come through.
Do they need a nerf? I don’t think so, but a I said, some stuff is concerning. I can definitely see them errata’ing the command corps heal given the lists that did well at LVO were already using that nerf.
I’d like some dwarf buffs, but I don’t think they need to be as big as I think you do. -
1 hour ago, Doko said:
the worst is the change of mortals only to melle,that makes fusilers one of the worst ranged units in entire aos at irondrakes level.
also we dont have any melle infantry human to use it,and how gonna keep in range of cavaliers?
when we get new foot knigths or any elite human infantry then we could use it
If fusiliers lost alchemist spell then they don’t compare well to iron drakes. Unbuffed moving irondrakes outperform fortified fusiliers. Fusiliers take the lead if they have the command trait and both have AoA. Non moving irondrakes win pretty hard even vs the command trait.
interesting thing is that the LVO winning list would be knocked down 140 points there, but other than that pretty unaffected. Drops the underworlds band or the other witch hunters probably. The runner up would be hit by what, close to 300? Armies have been hit by that much before (Nurgle fly spam or soulblight dead walker spam got hit like that) but it’s relatively rare.
I don’t know what they do for cities, because I do feel that a big problem with some of the cities stuff is that it feels like it can be pretty rough to play against, particularly at a more casual level.
It doesn’t seem like fusiliers are too much of a problem on the high end, but low end I can see them being just unpleasant to play vs. The ability to counter fire is very strong.
Steam tanks being able to pretty trivially have a 0+ save, so needing rend three to drop down to a 3+ save? That’s a bad feeling, particularly when it can be very easily healed up.
The command corps stopping command abilities and healing troops is another thing that can be unpleasant to play against, particularly the command abilities part. Separate the the feelings part it really does feel like they might just be too good.
It’s hard to tell what they can do for some of these things. I particularly have no idea what to do with the fusiliers. I’d probably lean towards changing the alchemist to being a target and not an aura. Maybe even let you target in each phase (to allow a shooting unit and a combat unit). That should hopefully let you use the combo, but stop spam.
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9 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
That's why I didn't really like it that much from the start. The damage output is obviously insane, but for melee units you always need to have either a delivery mechanism for them (high mobility, deep strike, teleport) or be able to take a hit and counter-punch. Corsairs have neither, and as an extra mark against them, their damage output falls apart if they don't get their spell.
It’s a 90 point unit though, there are limits to what you can expect. I’d run it where you are thrilled if you manage to get it off, but aren’t depending on it. I think the best way to take advantage is in a heavy aelf list, where the fleetmaster is there primarily to buff scourgerunners and it’s an opportunistic thing.
As for megargants, I could see cavaliers being pretty good vs them. A charging min sized unit with engage the foe and AoA will do an expected 17 or 20+ wounds (17 if AoD). It falls off if the gargant is slamming down mystic shields and finest hours, but you are probably better off focussing on a different gargant.
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1 hour ago, Bolfrig Bearhide said:
Hello friends, I am here to beseech you for wisdom.
A friend of mine wants to run some goblin wolf chariots but isn’t keen on the models so has been brainstorming using Thunderwolf cavalry with some goblins riding on top. Apart from the snarlfang riders, does anyone have any suggestions for where to get these goblins?
If you are fine with them being night goblins then squig hopper/bounders are goblins holding on to something with one hand. It doesn't seem too difficult to add fur to the bit of squig they are holding on to.
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27 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:
As long as they make them unique it should be fine.
It feels like it’d be pretty harsh to make a unit unique when it wasn’t before, anyone who had multiple are gonna be left with pretty useless models. I’d much rather it be 0-1 with 1 additional per Freeguild marshal on foot, or just 1 per freeguild marshal on foot.
I understand penalising people who absolutely spam a unit, but two copies (when most of the models have two build options) is a bit of a low bar. This is from someone who owns one command corps.
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6 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:
They confirmed in a facebook comment the dataslate is next week.
The meta watch article says “soon” and next month for the battle scroll and also mentions factoring in LVO results…which is probably not amazing news for command corps stonks.
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6 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
Have no idea what all those witch hunters do. Gonna have to read up. Great players can make a pile of random do great things. But Misthaven is awesome just for all the extra speed, which helps to get objectives and tactics all over the place, and place things for better Orders mechanics (which can be quite tricky to get off in some instances).
Hexbane's Hunters are really pretty dang efficient vs one target, where they get bonus damage on them. If you cut the cost down the middle you end up with a 90 point unit with 10 wounds, a 5+ and a 5++ and a 90 point 5 wound hero with a 5+ and 5++
The Ven Densts are cheap heroes (who only take one leadership spot between them) who each can give an order and are solo operatives. Both of them do double damage to wizards and daemons. Without that buff Galen is a pretty reasonable fighter and is pretty tough 5 wounds 4+ save and 5+ ward. Doralia is just as tough and 25% less good in combat, but her crossbow is a good profile normally and 2 damage 4 rend 2 shots vs wizards and daemons.
The list ran the full allotment of leaders, giving a total of 7 orders each turn, with a bonus one once per game from the griffon.
From what I've read about the list one thing he used the individual characters for was blocking lanes. It sounds like the tournament allowed player placed terrain, and a single hero on foot can block a 7 and a bit inch gap between two pieces of impassable terrain, needing to be charged to get past.
One thing to note is that LVO was playing the Sawbones ability as requiring different units to be targeted.
Errata: Change the Freeguild Command Corp Sawbones ability to be "you can pick up to 3 different friendly Cities of Sigmar Human units...". This prevents healing the same unit more than once per Sawbone per turn.
https://bestcoastpairings.com/event/87QQLXGK2M?active_tab=overview
So that fix was already in effect for the tournament.
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I do like the idea of 40K leaders, where they can join units. I think you would want more line operatives than in 40K though. I think that would help differentiate between classes of leader as well. I like the idea of weight kings being able to join and buff death rattle units, maybe keeping vampires as lone operatives.
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The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
If Skaven are the focus for the next expansion then it kind of makes sense not to focus on them now. I imagine if they release lovely new…plague monks?… after buffing the old ones then people might get a bit annoyed
I’ve been struggling to keep track myself, it’s tricky because a like on a list could mean the whole list, could also mean that just part of it. I wonder how much information rumour mongers have access to as well. If you just knew what units were coming for FEC for example, you might think the new crypt guard unit were a replacement for ghouls, not a new unit.