Satyrical Sophist
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Posts posted by Satyrical Sophist
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24 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
Many stats.
I just plugged a bunch of numbers into a spread sheet. Yours is a lot better laid out. One thing I'm curious about is whether you included the additional beak attack Tzaangor get now for being 9+. Original wording of Tzaangors just said you get extra Savage Blade/Savage Greatblade/ Paired Blades. New wording just refers to melee weapons, which means they each get a bonus beak attack.
I'd also love to see Enlightened on foot. The fact that they have 2 inch range on their main attack makes me think triggering guided by the past looks pretty simple, either as a line behind ungor, or even just bubble wrapped. A unit of 3 enlightened on foot is expected to do 11.3 wounds to 4+ troops. Even without the beaks, still gets 10.5.
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More math nerding. I posted this in Beasts of Chaos as well, but interested to get some feedback.
QuoteDo people have a list of points changes? I'm trying to work out just how much bang for your buck (Your point buck I guess) you get.
What I've currently heard is that Tzaangor enlightened on foot are 100, Bestigor are 120, and disk enlightened are 140 (The last one I've not seen mentioned much, think it might be some confusion with Skyfires, which are dropping 20 points).
In any case, assuming the bestigor numbers are right, then 10 bestigor charging 4+ armour save enemies will do an expected 6.9 wounds to a small unit, and 9.2 wounds to a big unit. If that unit has 5+ saves, it'd be 8.6 for a small unit, or 11.5 for a big one. So doing a fairly reasonable chunk of damage.
Whats kind of interesting is that Tzaangor are actually not that outclassed on the charge. Tzaangor'll do more damage, but obviously cost more. If you look at the number of wounds caused per 100 points of unit then you get a fairly balanced result. On the charge, vs a large units, Bestigor out perform Tzaangor (7.7 to 5.8). They are roughly equivalent charging small units (5.7 for BG, 5.8 for TG), and drop off rapidly in following turns (Down to 5.2 for big units and 3.9 for small units).
Enlightened end up kind of brutal, leaving aside the disks, foot enlightened end up being a bit more efficient overall than regular Tzaangor (6.3 wounds per 100 points), but if you ever get to trigger their guided by the past ability their damage output leaps to 11.3, which is almost 50% more than bestigors charging, and almost twice the damage at charging small units.
I'm also pretty interested in knowing about various synergies you can get, like that Gavespawn ability, and whether the wording will boost ALL melee profiles, as well as any other buffs that can be given out. I assumed that you had the Tzaangor shaman present for the enlightened, which might be a bit unfair, but I love that bird goat.
I've got to say, Enlightened with an extra attack seem brutal. They are surprisingly comparable to old Tzaangor. A unit of 30 Tzaangor, somehow managing to get every tzaangor into base to base would do 45 wounds to 4+ enemies. Thats the same number of points as 3 squads of disk tzaangor. Assuming you have to attack first with one squad, then the other two get the bonus? Thats an expected 42 wounds to 4+ enemies. If you manage to get the bonus with all of them, its 50 wounds. That seems really high. Yes you can lose some enlightened to attacks back, but getting 30 tzaangor into combat seems just as likely to result in problems.
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Do people have a list of points changes? I'm trying to work out just how much bang for your buck (Your point buck I guess) you get.
What I've currently heard is that Tzaangor enlightened on foot are 100, Bestigor are 120, and disk enlightened are 140 (The last one I've not seen mentioned much, think it might be some confusion with Skyfires, which are dropping 20 points).
In any case, assuming the bestigor numbers are right, then 10 bestigor charging 4+ armour save enemies will do an expected 6.9 wounds to a small unit, and 9.2 wounds to a big unit. If that unit has 5+ saves, it'd be 8.6 for a small unit, or 11.5 for a big one. So doing a fairly reasonable chunk of damage.
Whats kind of interesting is that Tzaangor are actually not that outclassed on the charge. Tzaangor'll do more damage, but obviously cost more. If you look at the number of wounds caused per 100 points of unit then you get a fairly balanced result. On the charge, vs a large units, Bestigor out perform Tzaangor (7.7 to 5.8). They are roughly equivalent charging small units (5.7 for BG, 5.8 for TG), and drop off rapidly in following turns (Down to 5.2 for big units and 3.9 for small units).
Enlightened end up kind of brutal, leaving aside the disks, foot enlightened end up being a bit more efficient overall than regular Tzaangor (6.3 wounds per 100 points), but if you ever get to trigger their guided by the past ability their damage output leaps to 11.3, which is almost 50% more than bestigors charging, and almost twice the damage at charging small units.
I'm also pretty interested in knowing about various synergies you can get, like that Gavespawn ability, and whether the wording will boost ALL melee profiles, as well as any other buffs that can be given out. I assumed that you had the Tzaangor shaman present for the enlightened, which might be a bit unfair, but I love that bird goat.
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Cross posting (really ineptly probably) from Tzeentch thread. Looking at some Tzaangor numbers. Will have a look at Bestigor in the morning. Love to have some thoughts.
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So, I got to thinking about the numbers. Did some math hammer. I know it's not everything, but handy to know how much of a hit tzaangor took. Looked at a bunch of things. I had some assumptions. I assumed only 10 get in, which is not that realistic, but not the worst assumption. I'm assuming as well that the beak does indeed get bonus attacks under new warscroll.
So, the new Tzaangor as a unit of 10, expect to do 10.5 wounds to a 4+, 13.1 to a 5+.
A stacked unit of them (I assumed 7 greatblade, 2 mutant, boss great), get 12.1 and 15 to 4+ and 5+ respectively.
Under the old rules, the 10 man would do 9.1 and 11.5. if you follow the same stacked system, then the 20 man's 10 tzaangor would do 14.8 and 18.5. A stacked 30 (as in the 10 best of a 30) would do 18.3 to 4+ and 23 to 5+.
They took a hit, no doubt.
I also took a quick look at enlightened. I may be wrong, but rumours had them at 100 for on foot, 140 on disk.
3 on disk without rerolls do 8.9 wounds to 4+, and 11.2 to 5+. Trigger rerolls and those numbers jump to 16.6 to 4+ and 20.8 to 5+.
3 on foot without rerolls do 6.3 to 4+, 7.9 to 5+. With rerolls they get 11.2 and 14.2 respectively.
Looking at the disk results, I feel I must have done something wrong, and will check in the morning, but enlightened look very interesting. Particularly the foot enlightened, since the spear is 2 inch range, I'm pretty sure you could clip charge a unit with them and get rerolls pretty easily.
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If it isn't an error, then 10 tzaangor do almost 13 wounds Vs 4+ armour save stuff. Which seems... high. That's also assuming beaks get the buff.
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If it's actually the case that they get two bonus to wound then where does that leave us? I'm not in a position to write it all out now, I'll try when I get home. The other thing is, the beak. It's a melee weapon. So if I read this right, under the new rules 10 tzaangor would get.
2 mutants
4 3+/2+/-/1 each
2 4+/3+/-/1 each.
3 glaivegors
2 4+/2+/-1/2 each
2 4+/2+/-/1 each
Leader with glaive
2 3+/2+/-1/2
2 3+/3+/-/1
4 regular
3 4+/2+/-/1 each
2 4+/3+/-/1 each.
That seems like a fair bit?
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3 minutes ago, Tonhel said:
What is there to be revealed for Beast of Chaos that we already don't know? It's only a battletome + endless spells and those were already previewed.
Alliegence abilities would be big, confirmation on how much of monsters of chaos is in it, if they just have a few monsters of chaos (dogs and horsemen) then it opens the door to more multifaction stuff.
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Upsilon
1 hour ago, Olincay said:Messed up formatting on phone, sorry. Was running Ogroid, Blue Scribes, Gaunt summoner, and two sets of ten pinks.
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so
59 minutes ago, Olincay said:Curious to hear some success stories about our summoning, we've all heard about seraphon putting 1000 pints of extra stuff down over a game, or sylvaneth doing their shenanigans, death bringing hordes of skellies back ect.
So my question is, how many extra points have you successfully summoned onto the field? I don't really want to include splits unless you summoned pinks from fate points, my reasoning is that you already pay for the ability when you pay the 200 points for them.
Not played that many games, and mostly at a low points total. Generally I've seemed to end up summoning something in the exalted flamer or set of flamers region. That said, so very very many blues and brimstones. I've ended games with around 60 more models than I started with.
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51 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:
Can you recall the “core rules” that your opponent cited to indicate that?
That was a thing in the prior edition... with the wording on the horrors that was added as an faq ... but that wording was stripped out with the change to sumoning in AoS v2.0.
This would definitely be a “show me the rule” moment.
They just said core rules. I really didn't want to slow the tournament to a crawl while it was looked up. I'll mention it to them next time I see them.
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Had my first tournament today. 1k. Gaunt, Thaumaturge, Scribes, 10 Pinks, 10 pinks and 10 hounds. Pleased to go undefeated. The horrors really let you go for the attrition fight, and was particularly impressed with the ability of the scribes to leap forward 21 inches, letting you suddenly capture something 33 inches away. Did mess up and underestimate versus Sacrosanct though, Evocators are brutal.
A question came up though. Is it possible for Pinks to go above starting size? Opponent and the general "rules guy" insisted that they could not, citing the core rules. I can't seem to find anything about it though. Can anyone help me out? Plus, even if there is a general rule, doesn't warscroll trump it?
If that's the case, is there anything other than basic human decency preventing you taking Kairos, and 3 Skyfires, T1 Fold reality them and chose 6? That gets you 9 Skyfires and at 600 points, plus a part worn Lord of Change. That seems pretty damn nuts.
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In 1000 points you can get a LoC with Mark of the Conjurer, a curseling, 20 pinks and cogs for exactly 1k. That's ten fate points a turn. It's fragile as hell, but that's a lot of fate points.
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Q: Can a Curseling, having unbound an endless spell, use the Vessel of Chaos ability to attempt to cast that endless spell? A: Yes.
From the FAQs for DoT. I assumed that meant without paying the points.
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Hi, new to the forums and AoS, so take this with a pinch of salt. Anyone looked at a Fate Master with a Chaos Warrior contingent? You can make the Fate Master pretty damn resilient.
This may be overkill, but you can combine the new artifact from Ghur (forces enemies to deduct one from their hit rolls against you) , have a 2+ in combat vs non flying enemies, a screamer within 9" (forces opponents targeting Tzeentch Daemon heroes to count 6s as 1s), and you get an additional -1 for being close to a unit. The command ability is not the best, but we seem fairly weak for command abilities in general. We can take the most advantage possible from it though, since it seems to work for any rolls we do, meaning that Gaunt Summoner (Who also gets screamers benefit) , Magister, and Ogroid all get to benefit.
So, targeting Fatemaster by range.
- -2 to hit (Look Out and Feather)
- Count sixes as ones (Screamers)
- 4+ armour saved after that
- Potential command ability re roll
Targeting by magic
- Ignore wounds and mortal wounds on a 4+ (Shield)
- Wizards nearby able to dispel
- I believe the command ability re roll still works?
Targeting in combat.
- 2+ armour save unless they fly
- Count sixes as ones (Screamers)
- -1 to hit (Feather)
- Potential command ability re roll.
This list looks really really stupid, but pretty funny.
- Fate Master
- Ogroid Thaumaturge
- Gaunt Summoner
- Magister
- 5 Chaos Warriors
- 5 Chaos Warriors
- 10 Acolytes
- 3 Screamers
- Endless Shackles spell.
Bang on 1000 points.
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AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion
in Chaos
Posted · Edited by Satyrical Sophist
Quoted more than I meant to.
Slight cross book stuff on the enlightened, but I was thinking of them for tzeentch. Enlightened are part of some battalions, and the points reduction may be a big deal for fitting them in.
Another reason I'm curious about them is exactly the defensive option. Tzeentch can grind out well, and eventually deal with threats, but lacks an anvil. I'm interested in trying out kairic acolytes and enlightened as objective holders, or wizard guards.
Disc tzaangor may well end up just plain better, but I think it's worth trying, 100 points puts them as a pretty small investment.
EDIT, on the shaman, a very fast hero has quite a few benefits, particularly a wizard, but shaman being able to get to places for command abilities is a big deal, never mind objectives.