Satyrical Sophist
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Posts posted by Satyrical Sophist
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10 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:
Well, can you voluntarily brake coherency though? I don't think so. Because it is difficult to get a second unit within .5" without pushing two models of the same unit more than 1" apart one from the other. What I mean is he must have broken coherency for the unit of Ungors in order to get within .5" of the wiches with the Enlightened. And if he did so on purpose, can you do that? I guess it make sense to sacrifice Ungors as ultimately that is the purpose for them to take the hit from the wiches but can legally you do it? I mean if you can...Chapeau! that was a very well executed move. Although watching at the video it was not clear if Enlightened were actually within .5" or not.
Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you do it like this?
WWWWWWW
WWWWWWW
UUUUUUUUUE
EEEEE.
They'd get to direct a few attacks at enlightened, but only a few
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1 hour ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:
Yeah they're ridiculous with the rerolls. They're still good without the reroll, but the reroll just makes them into an absolute blender.
With the rerolls they absolutely murder. In my two most recent games three of them have one phased a black coach and almost killed a star drake. Then just the Aviarch has killed a lord of shrouds and lord arcanum on Gryf in one phase.
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I've liked running Tzaango isr in 10s. They lose their bonus pretty easily (needs 4 wound though), but I feel like 2 units of 10 works out better than a unit of 20. I like having the extra banners and not having quite so much worry about battleshock.
As for tzaangor vs bestigor, I thought the concensus was that both units are good choices, which Tzaangor being a bit more durable, but damage falling quicker and Bestigor having better optimal situations (on the charge, Vs big units) and worse fail states (getting charged, not Vs big units). I'm actually pretty impressed with GW on the BoC diversity and use cases.
This is probably just wishful thinking, but has anyone tried pairing centigors with enlightened? I like the idea of giving the opponent's two opposing choices on which unit to target. If they hit the enlightened, then the centigors got drunk with no disadvantage, if they hit the centigors, the enlightened get to slap back full strength.
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57 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
Beast of chaos has the same sort of problem where a good number of the units just don't have a place at all in even i'd say a semi comeptive since of any given force.
Which units are you thinking of? I can only really think of warhounds, who are still very fast and bulky. I'm mid converting a lot of things, but looking forward to trying out centigors, chariots and pork missiles.
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19 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Hi,
ill be trying my beasts of chaos army against a friend of mine out.
we’ll be playing 1250p.
didnt have enough units to fill out the points, so I went with some endless spells.
Pendulum might be better than portal.
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Tried enlightened today, was playing tzeentch but only the beasts of chaos stuff is relevant. Enlightened were deadly. Managed to trigger the ability and they one phased a black coach. They went on to kill a spirit torment and finally a knight of shrouds. The Aviarch actually killed the knight on his own, after the knight killed his two fellow birdgoats. The shaman did a good job floating around and just gently filling back up a unit of tzaangor.
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1 hour ago, Pandamina said:
Isn't banner and musician with greatblade better?
If you are willing to convert, I guess. I'm not actually sure you can. I think the rule is that standard and musicians are considered to be armed the same way as the rest of the unit, so I'm not sure how that interacts with special weapons. I personally wouldn't.
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9 minutes ago, peasant said:
I have a doubt as assembling my tzaangors, what do you prefer shield lr 2 weapons?
You can use both. Shield wording is that as long as the unit has any with shields, whole unit gets the benefits. So optimial 10 man is.
1 leader with greatblade
3 regular with greatblade.
2 mutants.
1 banner (with 2 hand weapons)
1 musician (with 2 hand weapons)
1 shield.
1 with 2 hand weapons.
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Double gargant box seems like good value. I wonder how they run in pairs, makes a flubbed charge unlikely
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I thought that while a unit has to be brayherd to ambush, you count all BoC units to see how many units you can ambush?
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Anyone got any idea when we find out what forgeworld stuff ends up in BoC? Wondering about a warpfire dragon. Speaking of, how is the dragon?
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I am a little unsure why, but cracked and bought some Bullgor.
Not sure how they stack up vs enlightened.
Anyone looked at the numbers?
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I am a little unsure why, but cracked and bought some Bullgor.
Not sure how they stack up vs enlightened.
I guess I should start thinking about army lists.
Have 30 tzaangor, plus 6 extra silver tower ones, so can make some regular tzaangor into enlightened.
Tzaangor Shaman,
9 disc tzaangor, with options for up to 12 spears (acolyte glaives are almost pointless and would make fine spears),
Start collecting box.
Many spawn as needed.
Oh and those Bullgor that a weak Satyrical Sophist (whose chat name has never been more appropriate) bought.
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I'm really looking forward to a beast lord with the gave spawn artifact, you expect to one phase even a 6 wound 3+ guy. Do that and your Bestigor are throwing out 2 rend 1 wounds at small units and 2.4 rend 1 wounds at big ones. That is PER BESTIGOR.
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1 minute ago, Ajay29 said:
Nope, but the bray/war/thunder dudes are.
Will the new allies list be in the new battletome?
Should be. It's been released after the GHB18, so is the most current. Assuming they release Slaanesh or Moon clan before GHB19 then any stuff for them will also override GHB18. I don't see how else it could work.
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1 minute ago, Ajay29 said:
That’s what I thought, but looking at the GHB18 they’re not in the list of allies...
Beasts of chaos aren't in GHB18 at all are they?
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13 minutes ago, Ajay29 said:
Am I right in saying that BoC have effectively no allies? Now that bray/warherds, thunderscorn and monsters are all in the same book anyway, there’s no allies to take?
Thought they had slaves to darkness?
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1 hour ago, AaronWIlson said:
The change to the Tzaangor Warscroll is a big one for Tzeentch!
Yup, that said, units of 10 get a bit of a buff which is nice. Enlightened also seem really nice now.
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6 hours ago, FPC said:
I thought if you used DD for a roll (say casting, 2d6) all dice for that roll had to be DD? Was that 1.0 or never and I’m going crazy?
QuoteQ: Can I use a single Destiny Dice for one of the dice in a 2D6 roll? For example, could I use a Destiny Dice for just one of the dice in a charge roll, or one of the dice in a casting roll, etc.? A: Yes.
From the latest FAQ
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I really love the Ogroid, in small games I tend to use a fair few DD on him. A 6 will guarantee a successful fireblast (they can unbind, but you have an average of 9.5 on the cast), and the horrors made are useful. If you keep them in combat, they'll tend to throw out maybe one extra wound, and don't always die in one turn, and you can always run and use them to screen or just steal objectives. They are also pretty funny vs something like a ballista, since it'll usually have to waste a turns shooting.
Otherwise, I seem to find myself using 3s to guarantee horn hit and wounds. That combined with the charge mortals is surprisingly successful at murdering characters.
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The Gavespawn look really good.
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26 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
Yes, I did include the extra beak attack. If Enlightened on foot are indeed 3 for 100 then they will probably have pretty similar efficiency to Enlightened on disc. Their WDR with a Shaman but without Guided by the Past is about .125, so yeah that's nearly identical. Their points per wound is 11.11, so a tiny bit cheaper there. The problem is that they lose the incredible speed that the discs give, and I don't really see any advantage to compensate. The scenario that you describe doesn't really help trigger Guided By the Past. It's not that easy to pull off a charge in a formation like that. If your front line unit fails their charge, then your enlightened on foot are stuck. If your front line unit succeeds, then you still need to get the enlightened within .5" of the enemy unit for their charge to succeed. If you can manage that, then the enemy unit can reach your enlightened. They might not be able to get quite so many models in range, but that's mitigated by the enlightened having 1 less wound per model. To trigger GBtP you need to get the enemy to activate but not cripple your enlightened, and I don't quite see how this strategy accomplishes this. It might work better on defense where you can stick a line of Gors or Bestigors in front of the enlightened (and thus they won't be reachable by 1" range weapons but can strike back), but in that case the enemy probably charges at an angle where the enlightened will be out of range if at all possible.
Slight cross book stuff on the enlightened, but I was thinking of them for tzeentch. Enlightened are part of some battalions, and the points reduction may be a big deal for fitting them in.
Another reason I'm curious about them is exactly the defensive option. Tzeentch can grind out well, and eventually deal with threats, but lacks an anvil. I'm interested in trying out kairic acolytes and enlightened as objective holders, or wizard guards.
Disc tzaangor may well end up just plain better, but I think it's worth trying, 100 points puts them as a pretty small investment.
EDIT, on the shaman, a very fast hero has quite a few benefits, particularly a wizard, but shaman being able to get to places for command abilities is a big deal, never mind objectives.
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24 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
Many stats.
I just plugged a bunch of numbers into a spread sheet. Yours is a lot better laid out. One thing I'm curious about is whether you included the additional beak attack Tzaangor get now for being 9+. Original wording of Tzaangors just said you get extra Savage Blade/Savage Greatblade/ Paired Blades. New wording just refers to melee weapons, which means they each get a bonus beak attack.
I'd also love to see Enlightened on foot. The fact that they have 2 inch range on their main attack makes me think triggering guided by the past looks pretty simple, either as a line behind ungor, or even just bubble wrapped. A unit of 3 enlightened on foot is expected to do 11.3 wounds to 4+ troops. Even without the beaks, still gets 10.5.
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More math nerding. I posted this in Beasts of Chaos as well, but interested to get some feedback.
QuoteDo people have a list of points changes? I'm trying to work out just how much bang for your buck (Your point buck I guess) you get.
What I've currently heard is that Tzaangor enlightened on foot are 100, Bestigor are 120, and disk enlightened are 140 (The last one I've not seen mentioned much, think it might be some confusion with Skyfires, which are dropping 20 points).
In any case, assuming the bestigor numbers are right, then 10 bestigor charging 4+ armour save enemies will do an expected 6.9 wounds to a small unit, and 9.2 wounds to a big unit. If that unit has 5+ saves, it'd be 8.6 for a small unit, or 11.5 for a big one. So doing a fairly reasonable chunk of damage.
Whats kind of interesting is that Tzaangor are actually not that outclassed on the charge. Tzaangor'll do more damage, but obviously cost more. If you look at the number of wounds caused per 100 points of unit then you get a fairly balanced result. On the charge, vs a large units, Bestigor out perform Tzaangor (7.7 to 5.8). They are roughly equivalent charging small units (5.7 for BG, 5.8 for TG), and drop off rapidly in following turns (Down to 5.2 for big units and 3.9 for small units).
Enlightened end up kind of brutal, leaving aside the disks, foot enlightened end up being a bit more efficient overall than regular Tzaangor (6.3 wounds per 100 points), but if you ever get to trigger their guided by the past ability their damage output leaps to 11.3, which is almost 50% more than bestigors charging, and almost twice the damage at charging small units.
I'm also pretty interested in knowing about various synergies you can get, like that Gavespawn ability, and whether the wording will boost ALL melee profiles, as well as any other buffs that can be given out. I assumed that you had the Tzaangor shaman present for the enlightened, which might be a bit unfair, but I love that bird goat.
I've got to say, Enlightened with an extra attack seem brutal. They are surprisingly comparable to old Tzaangor. A unit of 30 Tzaangor, somehow managing to get every tzaangor into base to base would do 45 wounds to 4+ enemies. Thats the same number of points as 3 squads of disk tzaangor. Assuming you have to attack first with one squad, then the other two get the bonus? Thats an expected 42 wounds to 4+ enemies. If you manage to get the bonus with all of them, its 50 wounds. That seems really high. Yes you can lose some enlightened to attacks back, but getting 30 tzaangor into combat seems just as likely to result in problems.
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Incorporeal form is a Daemon trait, so OT can't take it. Also the gaunt summoner can pick from Daemon and mortal spell lists, but only gets one spell, not two.