Satyrical Sophist
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Posts posted by Satyrical Sophist
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So, looks like BoC might be really good in Slaanesh. Ungor end up a bit silly with Euphoric Killers. You easily get to generating 3 hits for every 6. With clubs that means each ungor gets 1.1 hit, each ungor with spear gets .89 hits. That's pretty good
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7 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:
The problem with using BoC under Khorne allegiance is that a lot of stuff won't work on them.
No demon/mortal-specific buffs. This basically leaves bloodsecrator and priests. Also without allegiance BoC lose all of their ways to get up the board fast except the run+charge.
Is slower BoC with bloodsecrator and priests better than BoC with just a BoC allegiance? Who knows, maybe. Or maybe it's just same Khorne, but with worse saves.
The lack of buffs is over stated. They benefit from more than enough good buffs. The main ones they seem to lose the Aspiring Death Bringer extra attack, and the Blood Stoker buff. They also lose the Mighty Lord of Khorne reroll charges. I'm not saying that these are not good buffs, but they remain effected by the Wrath Mongers, Slaughter Priests and Bloodsectrator, and have some very good attacks to boost.
Khorne BoC can't ambush, but honestly it's not much to miss out on. You say they are not much faster, but Gors and Bestigors both run and charge, and get +1 to the run, meaning that they basically run 7+d6. That's an average move of 10.5 and can still charge. Centigor move stupidly fast, a default 14 +1 + d6 for charging.
I also don't know why you are saying that BoC have worse saves than Khorne. The beast shields give Gors and Centigors a 4+ in combat, and Bestigor have a 4+ native.
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7 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:
edit: oh cool so brass despoilers would become part of your BoK army? What units does it require you to take? (damnit, I don't need more stuff!
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Yeah, they do. They lack the mortal keyword but benefit from anything that buffs Khorne in general.
1-4 combination of Beastlord and Doombull; 3-8 combination of Bestigors, Bullgors, and Gors; 0-8 combination of Centigors, Dragon Ogors, or Tuskgor Chariots; 0-2 combination of Cygors or Ghorgons.
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2 hours ago, Battlefury said:
Using Beasts of Chaos was a thing I did concider too. But a few sides before someone stated, that they can not be used in the Blades of Khorne allegiance, although they would gain the KHORNE keyword.
Is that right?
You can run Brass Despoilers in Khorne.
Q: Can Brass Despoilers, Phantasmagoria of Fate, Pestilent Throng and Depraved Drove be used as part of a Chaos army that owes allegiance to a Chaos God? For example, can I take a Brass Despoilers battalion as part of a Khorne army? A: Yes
‘Units from this battalion gain the Khorne keyword. In addition, this warscroll battalion is part of the Khorne faction and the Beasts of Chaos faction.’
It works. I'm looking forward to trying it (I'm BoC main).
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1 hour ago, Furuzzolo said:
I don't want to start a flame, just to make you re-think the popularity topic.
2 weeks ago people were chanting that the fyreslayer topic had 7 pages and none was interested in the faction cause of the looks of the models. Well, I kinda surf all the duardin-suburban-cluster around the internet and now I see a LOT of people start collecting the army and hyped around the frigging 2+ save and hearthguard berserkers....
Still, same models.
Edit: the point is that, MAYBE, rules that make an army fun to play weight more than people think regarding popularity.
I haven't started Fyreslayers (way too big a gray mountain) myself. but was tempted. One thing that really put me off FS 1.0 is that in order to run it you needed to paint blocks of 30 Vulkites, which ends up damn expensive, and also very same-y in an army that visually has issues with that.
If you can run a more elite force then that obstacle no longer applies, for example a hearthguard and heroes based list, or heavy magmadroths.
Another issue (At least for me) is that people are waiting for books to be updated before they jump in, not necessarily because they want the latest OP thing, but so they know what to build stuff as. Look at Kharadron Overlords, at the moment the Arkanaut Company can take 3 light sky hooks, but the box only gives one, along with a volley gun and a pike. If they change the warscroll the way that they did for storm fiends then a lot of people are going to have to readjust. If you have other projects on, it makes sense to wait.
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3 hours ago, Kasper said:
Damn, that's so smart. 😋 Thanks a lot for the explanation! I guess you don't want all the bases to be right up against each other, since the enemy model will be able to hit over the ungor screen, since 25mm bases equals just less than an inch? Meaning no beak or disc attacks, just spears from the enlightened?
There is also a very good chance that the unit of ungor is either dead, or going to run in the battle shock phase.
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6 minutes ago, Kasper said:
Can you explain this "clip-charge trick"? I have seen it mentioned multiple times, but haven't really been able to find a good explanation of it.
Not the person you asked, but can give a brief description. You charge an enemy with ungors (the screen) and Enlightened. Imagine they line up like this.
O O O O O O
u u u u u u u E
E E E E E.
Only one enlightened is within range of the enemy unit. They have "clipped" it.
So you can attack first with the ungor, they swing back, with only one or two being able to target the Enlightened, Ungor take the hits, Enlightened pile in (and can attack over the top of the ungor if any survive), getting their rerolls without taking too much damage.
You need to clip the unit to complete the charge, since the enlightened need to end the charge with at least one within half an inch.
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I'm not a KO player, but love the look and flavour. I have way too many projects on to start a new army right now, so fine to wait for a new tome/updates. That said, fyreslayers are apparently going to 2 wounds each, which opens up the possibility for KO as well. If they did up the sound count on troops it seems like they might end up making KO more elite overall. Any thoughts? If it was just a wound increase, what kind of points increase would follow?
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4 minutes ago, xking said:
Two wounds each seems like a big deal
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3 hours ago, novakai said:
TBH the first three BT for AoS 2.0 had their distinct downsides
BoC: the power of the tome seem to be more on the Tzaangors part of the army then vanilla Beastmen
Yeah, there are some definite issues.
Kinda disagree on the BoC front though. I played Tzeentch before BoC and have to say I'm really impressed with how they handled BoC. Tzaangors are good, bit have definite downsides. Enlightened are too cheap, would be a main point I'd make. They should probably flip the points cost of Bullgor and Enlightened.
That said? Internal balance is pretty good I have to say. The old beastmen hold up very well, and are definitely not invalidated by Tzaangor. There are a couple of units that could do with a tweak.
-Gor are a little bit misbegotten. They suffer in comparison with a fair few other units, with centigor actually showing them up the worst. That said, they do represent unconditional battle line that's fast and reasonably durable in combat. I've definitely seen them used well
-Warhounds are also shown up by centigors. Centigors are just so much faster. Warhounds get to auto run 16 inches, which is very fast. Centigors run 16-21 and can still charge, while fighting better and having a much better save. I love the fluffy guys, but they really could do with being battle line, or just something.
-Monsters. Monsters are in such a weird place balance wise. I think it's one of the weakest areas of AoS in general.
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29 minutes ago, King Taloren said:
Which afaik they have been doing a pretty good job with every book that has come out so far even with the accelerated schedule. I don’t recall anyone saying that any of the new books are bad or overpowered to Daughters of Khaine levels.
I've been pretty impressed with the 2.0 roll out. It seems like the 2.0 books all play well together, with a few 1.0 books placing well on occasion. (I am including DoK, Deepkin, Nagash and Nurgle as 2.0). The main issues with 1.0 books is that they seem to have less internal balance than the 2.0, leading to a shortage of choices.
The 2.0 lists have been pretty varied as well, some smaller factions and some huge factions. Even the less tournament successful ones seem fun at least, I know I enjoy gloom spite, and wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing it place better as new things are tried.
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7 hours ago, TactfulSaturn said:
On the topic of alternatives for dragon ogres, does anyone know if bullgors would work (size wize) with Stormcast Dracolines (much like the dracoline-orgoid conversion for the shaggoth)? Or perhaps Ogor torsos with some kind of BoC head/horns?
I've made a Dracoth Ogroid Thaumaturge Shaggoth. Those pieces work together. Bullgors are so much chunkier I'd be really worried about being top heavy.
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Need to take some better photos, but here are some of my centigors, along with some of my other BoC, including Elkhead Mooselord, my beast lord.
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21 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:
I think the key to using BoC units successfully in god aligned armies is taking units that fill usually unavailable gaps in a given army. Ungors work well for example in Tzeentch because its a cheap screen/battle line selection. Centigors work well in Nurgle because they can become ludicrously fast and punchy with blades. From a game play point of view you have to have a very specific vision in mind if you want to really leverage BoC units in non BoC armies but there are some interesting builds available.
There are some other cool interactions that I want to try.
Cygors give Tzeentch a good use for 4s and 3s, also Dragon Ogors are pretty tough.
Nurgle gets centigors for blades shenanigans (Bestigor and Ungor raiders work well with them as well), and just fast units in general. I also like the mortal wound chariots. They don't benefit from some nurgle synergies though, since a fair few things call for Mortal or Daemon or Rotbringer.
Khorne has some of the same problems, though not too bad. While everything benefits from extra attacks, Bullgors and Ghorgons get the biggest benefit. Plus chariots are one of the cheapest ways to get bloodtithe points in the game (spawn are cheaper, but damn are they unreliable and not very tough) and Centigors are also a pretty good source.
Slaanesh has less synergies in general, being more limited overall, but I do want to try the pretender shaggoth. I think you could get a depravity generating monster with him.
The other thing to note about them is that they are very flexible battalions. I love taking cheap throw away units, and the god battalions are a great way to do that without having a million drops.
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Yup. I actually quite like the way it works, though I wish BoC units gained access to traits and a spell lore if you did it. (Slaanesh still allows traits because it's not got a battle tome. You can make a frankly brutal doombull or shaggoth leader).
So if you want a blood stoker, you are running a Khorne army, it might contain almost entirely BoC units, but it's a Khorne army and everything has the mark of Khorne. They clarified that the BoC units are not counted as allies, theoretically you could run a Khorne army that contains only BoC units.
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4 hours ago, Roark said:
Super excited about the Tome and associated releases, but Skulltaker's command ability must be one of the worst ever. Apparently it's thus:
"You can use this command ability at the start of the combat phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly BLOODLETTERS unit wholly within 12" of a friendly model with this command ability. Until the end of that phase, you can re-roll wound rolls of 1 for attacks made by that unit."
Everyone laughed at Mazarall's command, but this seems... so much worse. 😕
Reroll ones is deceptively powerful honestly. Given blood letters are 3 up to wound that improves their wound rate to 78% from 67%. An 11% damage buff is nothing to sniff at.
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Got a fair bit more to add, but I'm pretty sure raider arrows can work with blades of p. If you have a full unit they end up getting 2/9 of their hits as bonus mortals (22%) as opposed to 17%. A unit of 40 will put out 9 mortals at range and in melee as well.
Edit. Bestigor also benefit Vs big units.
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I'm actually kind of fine that Razorgors don't fit in battalions. It would be cool if they did, but I can see it being super annoying to play vs. Other than drop count running MSU is kind of amazing.
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5 hours ago, Myrdin said:
Sidenote: I admire you dedication. I just finished the first 5 I had started a while ago now (procrastination is a thing lol), though they still need to be painted. Next I wanna try making some female ones from the Sisters of Thorn box, but honestly, while I would love to have some nice 30-40 ish customized, big beefy, cool looking Centigors, its just way to much work >< I wish GW did some update on some of the BoC line models .
I'll try and get some photos of mine up. I do love using them. I need to get back to the goat mines, been sidetracked by gloomspite. I can even try to do a how-to. Original ones I did were rescue ones from some pretty battered and already assembled sisters of the thorn. Hopefully the next batch are easier.
Wasn't too had kitbashing them.
Need to do chariots and pigs next.
I have elaborate chariot plans, but not sure that they'll work. I have some gore gruntas that I am wondering about converting into Razorgors. Might be better as chariots.
PS. Warhounds... Yeah, I still can't believe how slow they are compared to centigors. They go 16 when running. Assuming you have the banner still alive that is the MINIMUM run possible for centigors.
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13 hours ago, redbirdhouse said:
Alright, fellow farm animals.
You've got a lot. Looks like a warherd list is possible pretty much immediately. That said Myrdin is right, the stuff you are missing is the fast disposable stuff. I personally love centigors and am working on converting more. Got 5 stag ones done, another 5 stags to do, and another ...35? Horse based ones. One of the big advantages of BoC is just how mobile you are, and centigors are really good at harassing backfield objectives. I've run warhounnds, but honestly next to centigors they are disappointing. Wish they were battle line.
I'd also try some ungor, at least for sacrifices.
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34 minutes ago, TailoredTackle said:
You can do well with a squig list, but IMO you need to balance it out a bit to really benefit from all the gloomspite shenanigans. I’m trying 70% squig and 30% moonclan next weekend. I really like adding a 60 stabba unit with Loonboss to every list I am making with the various factions. The horde tarpit + mortal wounds really lets your squig cavalry do its job and have some fun. I’m not a huge fan of the squig herd, so I’m putting the stabbas + 2x6 of squig in battle line and focusing on bounderz, hoppers and 2 manglers as the core of the army. Just my opinion but I think you need around 30% of another faction to get more balanced, trogoths could work too if your not taking manglers.
I love squig herd honestly. They have done really well for me. With a moon clan general (so unless you are troggoth based or spider based, pretty likely) they represent your cheapest battleline by far. 70 points gets you 12 wounds, which works out at 5.8 points a wound, cheaper than discounted stabbas. They also have a tiny imprint and can fight in two ranks. I love setting them up like this.
SS
SSS
H.
That gets you a tiny front facing area, all squigs attacking. They are really handy for charging into flanks and being a pain to dislodge.
They can also fight reasonably well. Most flanking units are going to have an issue with them unless they considerably out point them, so they are handy backfield holders.
Plus I just love the reroll run and charges.
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19 minutes ago, CitizenX said:
So I just made an account to ask for advice here on this, but my local store is about to do a Path to Glory and I decided to use my Squigs. Current list is
Loonboss on Mangler Squig (leader)
Trait: Fight Another Day
Fungoid Shaman
Lore: Squig Lore
5x Bounderz
What I am struggling with is what artefact to use. Any suggestions?
Thermal rider cloak gives some guaranteed movement. It's kind of painful when you roll a 4 for movement or something.
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12 hours ago, ItzMercy said:
What's the best Arachnorok spider varient... I'm mid building and don't know what to go for?
The shaman spiders intrinsic spell is so good. Ran the artifact that triggers venom on 5+. Cast spell. Did 14 mortals in one combat.
I've done the shaman first. (In general gloom spite, slightly squig focused). My second will probably be warparty. Especially since you can just have the howdah removable and run as skitterstrand too.
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Had a funny small game Vs a Trogherd yesterday. Won 33 to 22, but the kill point difference was astonishing. In a 1k I killed 400 points. He killed 1200 points.
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AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
There is nothing stopping beasts in Khorne from being members of a slaughter host (the equivalent), and taking their command trait or relic. That said, mostly isn't super useful since they tend to refer to mortals (sometimes even a specific unit type) or daemons.