Satyrical Sophist

Thursday at 01:11 AM

Nurgle is my most played army. At this point I'm pretty curious about the changes. We just haven't played enough of 4th to know how things shake out. Stuff like counter charge is huge for nurgle. You can auto run onto points, then counter charge if your opponent approaches. If they don't you are holding the points. There are just many effects where we need to play it out to see how it goes.

I'm hoping there are more ways to get disease going, but its an interesting mechanic for sure. I really like the old disease points one, but it was very 6 based. Rolling a lot of dice, then hoping for 6s then 4s.

Blight kings going to 3 Wounds, 3+ from 4 wounds, 4+, I get it. Its probably mostly a nerf. That said, 50 points a blight king was STEEP. That was only a touch less than a troll, and pretty close profile wise to trolls. I think the armour change makes sense. Most of the unit is actually in full plate. 3 of the 5 are in full armour, and the other two are doing the whole, bloated and holes running right through them.

Wednesday at 02:53 PM

9 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

Indeed. Just the logistics of having to transport so many extra models around was aggravating.

Having to carry around extra units was so annoying. Or games where you really wanted to summon unit X to do something, but don't have one painted and ready, or have already summoned it. The most competitive option being painting up like 3 of every possible summon able unit to carry in addition to your 2k was so aggravating.

Wednesday at 01:39 PM

7 minutes ago, Wurdbad Triple-belly said:

Above all, it takes away so much immersion: now a huge sword has no more difference than a simple bell

I think being hit by either of them is gonna suck so bad. I disagree on the immersion. When they have a combat version and a non combat version the non combat version often hits like a limp noodle. I think that's more immersion breaking.

Wednesday at 01:28 PM

Just now, Wurdbad Triple-belly said:

It's sad, the profile of the GUO has become so generic, even no more difference between his weapons or the bell..

As someone who hasn't assembled their GUO because they didn't feel like doing magnetising yet, I can kind of dsee why

Wednesday at 09:59 AM

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I hope the wheel goes. That was always my least favourite thing about Nurgle. But then I also hope they get some new ability to make up for the loss of it and summoning. Maybe some kind of pollution mechanic?

I'm not a fan of the current wheel in practice. It's such a random influence. Some games it does barely anything, other games it's just brutal to play against.

Thematically it's cool, but I think they need to remove it, or put a lot more development into it

Tuesday at 11:31 AM

7 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

I really want to know how the Manifestation Lores for the endless spells in Malign Portents will be divided up. Am eyeing finally painting some of the box up, and it'd be great to know which spells are grouped with the ones I legitimately like and want to use.

I think they've shown them?

Purple Sun, Gravetide, Maelstrom, Shackles.

Cogs, Swords, Pendulum .

Burning Head, Life Swarm, Gnashing Jaws.

Spell Portal, Geminids, Pallisade.

Shards of Val, Boat, Bridge, Horrorghast.

Tuesday at 01:22 AM

5 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

This has been useless so far, right?

I might be remembering wrong but I think Leviathan had something happen with their equivalent later. Winner got the earlier reveals for the new stuff not in the FOMO box. It was actually kind of awkward because they had squatted an old unit for marines and were replacing it with a new unit, but Tyranids won. So they just kind of had a ...well, you can use the old models for...I guess something sort of a bit like them, rather than "here are the new pretty models to replace your old ones"

June 3

Having rules match look makes a lot of sense. Definitely some corner cases. Like Blight Kings. Model wise, what save do you give them? The unit varies in how armoured they are so much, from full plate, to some of them basically just wearing ripped trousers and shoulder pads.

I kind of want to have a look at all the revealed scrolls and have a go working out expected output Vs various saves. We don't have that much but we do have some. So a full round of thunderers shooting without any extra buffs does an expected 6 and 2/3 one rend wounds. So that would expect to pick up 2.2 hearthguard who are benefitting from the hero ward. Which is a fair bit admittedly, but half that shooting is 10 inch range. A frigate would also pick up 2. Weirdly Arkanauts pick up the most, killing 2.3. Speaking of which, Arkanauts look interesting again, only 4s and 4s, but assuming the spear head rule is right (it's a copy from the 3rd one as well) then they get plus one to hit while contesting objectives and each model has 2 shots in both melee and combat.

June 3

2 hours ago, PraetorDragoon said:

If they're going to show Gotrek at some point they'll show him with Fyreslayers.

Like how Kragnos showed up in a destruction article.

I think it will almost be confirmation on whether he is going legends or not.

June 2

19 hours ago, ScionOfOssia said:

I just think that in a setting with elven soul-thieves riding eels, Einherjar riding dragons that throw stars at people, malevolent tree fae, murder cultist snakegirls, and basically everyone besides the Soulblight, choosing “Regular humans and standard Elf/Dwarfs” is a bit like seeing 100 different interesting flavors and then choosing French Vanilla and then insisting that it’s actually a really interesting choice compared to the others.

I like cities a lot. I mainly want to argue about Vanilla. Proper vanilla is an absolutely delicious flavour they too often is used to mean plain. It really isn't. Some places use it to mean unflavoured but those places are just wrong and there is special rung of help for them. If you have just milk ice-cream, sure. Just don't call it vanilla unless it actually contains vanilla extract. Or I guess at least artificial vanilla since you can synthese it pretty well.

May 31

19 minutes ago, BarakUrbaz said:

Warpcog Convocation Battle Formation from that Skaven vs Lumineth preview game they did.

Found it, it does also have a chance to do mortal wounds on the recipient.

May 31

7 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said:

When fully buffed and with unreal levels of luck (39 shots), that Warpblaster is hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s, with MWs on 6s. If my math is correct (Which it probably isn’t), that’s about 22 damage. This comes with the caveat of needing 6 D6 to all roll 6s.

The more likely outcome (3.5*6+3) is probably around 14 damage before saves, with 2.6666 being MWs.

It’s less insane than I expected, and without the multiple buffs and an overcharge, it’s good but it doesn’t seem oppressive (Particularly because rolling poorly will see it escort itself off the board very quickly and Obscuring Terrain/Prismatic Pallisade can block its LOS pretty well, and it’s probably pretty costly to boot).

Where are you getting the mortal wounds on sixes? Speaking of which, where is the + to wound coming from. I vaguely remember it from a leak. Is the mw on 6s from something else as well, because the scroll doesn't have that intrinsically.

May 31

2 minutes ago, BarakUrbaz said:

If you're running Warpcog Convocation (which pretty much every Skaven shooting list is going to do) you can add +1 to wound for shooting on a 2+ for three units.

Given we don't know all the rules I was just going with base rules. It's a little premature to go full mathhammer until we have a complete look. Assuming that we give them that bonus, then it is 6 damage without the once per army boost, and 10.7 with it

May 31

10 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

It's funny, because KO is still paying the tax for being the 'the shooting army', while their shooting is in fact like a newborn baby's ****** compared to Tzeench and now, it would seem, Skaven.

As someone who has played KO (mainly in second, since I wanted a more casual friendly army as well) I think it's missing something to say that KO are being punished for being shooting. They pay a premium for being a potentially very fast moving army in a game where movement is a massively important feature. Shooting is also less interactive than combat.

I don't see how KO shooting seems like a limp noodle. Thunderers have essentially 20 shots, 3s and 4s, rend 1. (I say essentially because 40% of the shooting is actually 4s and 3s), which is an expected third of all shots getting through. So 6.7.

The skaven vehicle gets an expected 13.5 shots at 4s and 3s, rend 1. It does also have auto wound, which results in expecting to convert 39% of those shots to damage. So 5.27. If you boost it it's 24 expected shots, and 9.59 expected.

Given you can only boost one rattling gun, and how much more fragile it is, that sounds reasonable.

May 28

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

So, how about that Cities preview? First impressions:

Reworked orders

There are 4 Orders now. They are no longer hidden info, but rather just abilities that Cities heroes get to do once per turn (not per battle round). They are now no longer racist, humans dwarves and elves can all benefit from every order. As of right now, orders stack.

Advance in Formation

3" move that humans "spread around" for free. Target a human with it and any other unit within 12" of the hero can also do it. It appears to me that right now, this order stacks with itself. I expect this to be errata'd.

Suppressing Fire

Spread "strikes last" by shooting stuff. Since counter-fire is gone, this will be what you use on shooting units. If you shoot a unit with multiple units and use suppressing fire with your last one, all models slain by shooting count for the roll. You can also use it in the enemy shooting phase, which is great to potentially weaken alpha strikes.

Strike Them Down

+1 attacks on the charge, elves also get +1 to hit.

An easier to set up Engage the Foe. Will be good even on trash units. Also stacks with itself.

Hold the Line

5+ ward, dwarves also get -1 to be hit, but gives you "strikes last"

A reworked Shield Wall. Will be great on all screens, 5+ ward on reaction is great. Unlike Shield Wall, any unit can get it, even lone heroes or something like Steam Tanks.

Overall

These orders seem stronger and easier to use than before, but at the same time I think they will feel less bad for our opponents. I see this as a win. Stacking will likely get errata'd, although it is not completely trivial to set up.

---

Battle Formation

Fortress-City Defenders

Gives you big shield units "Fortified Position" from the start of the game. Fortified position is now -1 rend both in melee and at range. You lose it if you use a MOVE ability. Advance in Formation is not a MOVE ability, so you can shuffle around 3" at a time and still keep the bonus.

This does not look like the best possible bonus, but I could see some ranged-heavy castle lists running it to be safer against alpha strikes. If you don't take it, you can still set up Fortified Position turn 1, so it is only really useful if the opponent gets priority, IMO. Still, the formation is nice and thematic: If you bring a bunch of Fusiliers, Cannons and Warhulks, then you get to start with your castle already in place.

---

I'm not 100% sure but I think there might be a core rule that stops you benefiting from the same ability on the same unit multiple times.

You are missing the other Battle formation rule. It gives all your cities of sigmar units -1 to be wounded in the first battle round as long as they are in deployment zone. Which is still a pretty minor thing, but good against alpha strikes. I'll have to play the steel helms but their 5++ is only when the whole unit is contesting the blessed objective, which are a lot smaller areas now. It's still a very solid ability, but I think getting non steel helms to benefit from it is not going to be as easy as it seems. Since it's contesting, something like a steam tank can get it pretty easily, since the base just needs to be touching the line. I suspect getting a big block of fusiliers is going to be harder.

May 27

7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The best part of this revision, honestly. Previously, you were very strongly incentivized to build mono-race. Now I could see myself mixing in a unit of dwarves or elves with my humans.

There are a lot of other nice changes, too. I think the move away from orders as a hidden information mechanic is good. I personally kind of enjoyed that, but my opponents really didn't. Had a bunch of feel-bads from them triggering my trap card.

The new system seems more powerful, too. Every hero gets to give an order on every player turn. That's a lot of orders.

There are a lot of goodies in this preview that I am pretty excited about. I like that they made the Fusil-Major into a buff hero for shooting units. I also like that Fortified Position is now -1 rend against everything rather than just shooting, but you have to spend your move action to set it up. Steelhelms also look really solid, giving out a free 5+ ward for humans on objectives. Between that and Hold the Line, I hope they can make Zenestra into something more interesting than a 5+ ward machine.

With the changes to priests I’d love it if she had some very powerful but super high casting number prayers. Would really fit flavour wise.

May 27

9 minutes ago, Cdance93 said:

Don’t despair, relatively easy to buff them back to 3 attacks with officars order

They start with 3 attacks each. Order bumps them to 4. Old order used to boost horses as well though.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing, just a notable change. It kind of used to be that you could buff cavaliers up and they’d kill god. Now I think people will have to think more.

May 27

3 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

Haven’t read it all, but orders for everyone with a bonus depending on human/duardin/aelf sounds spot on.

That seems like a really nice way to do it. Looks interesting!

Free guild Cavaliers got it in the shorts offence wise though. On the charge they used to be 3 attacks 3s and 3s with 2 rend and 2 damage. Now it’s 3 attacks 4s and 4s, 1 rend and 2 damage. Up a wound each though. Dropping almost half their damage output is gonna sting though. Was always kind of weird they had the same offensive profile as blood knights and a better one than chaos knights.

May 26

3 hours ago, TheHeartbreakPrince said:

He is tho

Have they said he is? If they have can I get a link or anything? Are you just very confident he is in legends or do you actually know.

May 26

On 5/25/2024 at 5:49 AM, Gailon said:

That’s fair. But they also have to balance the game. And it is a matter of perspective. Stabbas controlling objectives from 9” has been amazing for me in 3rd. In one sense it’s not something cool. But in another sense it’s cool to have a bunch of grots swarming and taking the battlefield.

like Lady O just flies in and terrifies everyone so she takes the objectives.

similar discussion to be had with the carnosaur. Which has damage dramatically reduced per the leaks (or previews?), but word is it ha an ability to add d6 OC to itself and subtract d6 OC from one enemy. That could be an incredible ability. And it doesn’t take much imagination to see it roaring over the battlefield and terrifying the enemy such that I score the points with it.

We have seen the carnosaur spear head warscroll. It.might be close to the full warscroll, but I think there is a very good chance they toned down its killings for spear head, since that’s the kind of thing that might be OP in the much smaller format. I’d wait to draw conclusions on it til we know more.

On 5/25/2024 at 8:33 AM, Tonhel said:

Correct, focusing on controlling objectives distracts from the wargame aspect. I know lots of players don't mind this, but for me it's an immersion killer. That's why I am not a fan of battle tactics and there is imo to much focus on scoring objectives. Killing stuff should be equally important as scoring VP through controlling objectives.

If the rumour is true about the carnosaur that he has a handy ability for controlling objectives. This doesn't do much for me. It's a savage killer, it should not be one of the better options to control an objective, it should be feared for it combat prowness, not that it's an objective taker/holder. Below is related to Warhammer, but as it is the same beast and model, it still applies to AoS.

Having tasted blood, a Carnosaur is at its most deadly, for it enters a state of savage bloodlust — biting and tearing at any living creature, sometimes slaughtering its gory way through entire herds of giant reptilian without pause. Such is what they were bred to become, for the primordial jungles of Lustria only spares the strongest and most ferocious of monsters, whilst the weak are simply left to be eaten by those seeking to consume flesh.

Killing stuff is important for winning the game, when you kill off the opponents units you damage the opponents ability to complete their objectives. There is no need to reward the killing part twice. I don’t think objectives distract from the wargames part, I think they enhance it if they are done well. One of my complaints about old world is that it feels like winning is much too killing based (from the battle reports and feedback I have, haven’t got round to square basing anything yet) and it feels immersion breaking that these two armies have just found each other and are just fighting to the death. I’d much rather there be some reason why they are there in particular to fight. Even if it’s something like, both sides trying to secure their deployment zone as the vanguard, or keeping the enemy from breaking through.

I remember in the old days it used to be a common complaint that beast claw raiders were too good. Looking into with follow up questions basically always led to discovering they were just playing wipe em out rules.

I meant to post this yesterday but didn’t click send apparently. Just to include a small bit on the end, can people try not to be relentlessly negative about things. Sure, some people didn’t like third. Some people like it a lot. I personally really like it, but I’m very used to a lot of rules from games like magic the gathering and am pretty fast to pick up rules systems. For new people and people who are not, I understand the complaints. One thing that I don’t think helps anyone is just repeatedly and extremely taking shots at stuff. It just kills the enthusiasm for the forum as a whole. If you have strong angry feelings about something, make a post about it and people can choose whether to engage.

May 25

5 hours ago, TheHeartbreakPrince said:

Gotrek is legends.

Got a source on that? It'd be good to know if someone does, otherwise just stating things as unsupported facts isn't helpful.

I personally hope he isn't, big fan of the little murderball and it's sort of hilarious he is fulfilling the role of order "god" while being an angry dwarf.

I think we are still waiting to hear whether allies outside of regiments of renown are a thing this edition. I think if they add a few more regiments of renown I'd be fine with allies being limited to RoR. Would make balancing allies a lot easier to do and means if unit X is too good in army Y you can increase the RoR points cost rather than increasing the points for unit X in its native army. I think we are just a little bit too low on RoR currently if that's their plan.

May 21

Having relatively few, but impactful rules is probably the sweet spot for me. The army I've been playing the most recently is Nurgle.

They have...

Disease.

Cycle of Corruption.

Healing and ward.

Summoning.

Some of those might be tied up in other things, the healing also has an additional thing with locus of fecundity which I don't think I have ever used, either due to not having, or missing that it's a thing.

Disease is hugely impactful and meaningful, it effects a lot and is really thematic.

Summoning is...kind of there? It feels like it more or less translates into getting you a battle tactic, and if you are doing well, clowning on people. I kind of want summoning replacing just in general. I love the theme, but every faction with it just dances on the ineffective/problem line. I personally kind of think summoning should be paid for in points, but discounted. You can summon in more unite, but they are only available from turn X onwards. Or just something that means you aren't incentivised to bring a stupid amount of models with you.

Healing and ward should just be on the war scrolls.

The cycle of Corruption is the worst for me. Some of the effects are INSANE, others do nothing. It puts a lot on one dice roll. Its the kind of thing that they could have amazing, but as an also-ran it's terrible.

May 18

The little storm cast helper dudes dying on any 1 to save for the unit is brutal! Poor lil guys.

May 18

8 hours ago, GrimDork said:

Posted this in rumour thread but thought I’d share my thoughts here as well,

I’m very hyped for Skavetide & especially spearhead, it’s exactly what I’m looking for in AoS. I hope it’s popular and receives ongoing support. I got into AoS around 2nd when meeting engagement format came out but it wasn’t particularly well balanced and was a bit of a damp squib in terms of support. I’m definitely more of a hobby butterfly rather than doubling down on one faction. Was thinking about my mini collection/pile of shame, I won’t need to purchase much to have a good number of spearheads, even tho I’ve never actually bought a spearhead box.

KO- already have all the models

Orruk Warclans- already have all the models

Idoneth Deepkin- just need a soulscryer but can just proxy soulrender.

Lumineth- just need 5 bladelords

Fyreslayers- I’m not sure off the top of my head, they all look alike but I have the FS half of FotD so it probably won’t take too much (or proxy)

Yndrastas- need a chariot and 10 vanquishers?

Plus I’ll get the 2 that come skaventide! For me that’s not many minis to purchase for a good amount of gameplay variety. I also like having the specific smaller painting/collecting goals to reduce hobby burnout.

If you change text colour to that colour it's invisible in dark mode by the way.

May 17

It also gives them a really good excuse for new FOMO boxes if they want to do them. Introduce a new spear head compatible box, and have it available for awhile. Keep the rules going for it after, since people can always buy the individual units for it later if it's popular. Can even introduce new heroes with it if you wanted to do it that way, like the regiment/army of renowns and have the hero available 3-6 months later. It feels like something that can work really well. If they are aiming to keep them at about 500 points and a single regiment it also incentives people to go into AoS proper. Hmm...I already have the castellite spear head for CoS, and the new Cult of the Wheel box looks good...etc ( not a rumour I know of, just thinking of another cities of sigmar one while we aren't sure what is happening with aelves and dwarfs)

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