Nos
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Posts posted by Nos
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15 minutes ago, Ratboy genius said:
Absolutely was- at minimum to an extent, the enemy within (a large, highly rated, WHFRP adventure made extremely early on in its lifespan) started out as a "bloodless cthulu adventure" (blood was returned to the adventure.)
That was 1986. Chaos Pantheon was not explored until Realms of Chaos in 1988.
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7 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:
I'm hoping for a new Warcry Starter set with 2 new Factions that arent Chaos related unless they are Beasts or Skaven..
Andy Clarkes Black Library novel 'Gloomspite' really made me appreciate the horror of the Gitz in a way I hadnt considered before. Even the Spiderfang riders and Arachnaroks in that book become far more terrifying than they already are, same goes for the Troggoths.
Certainly sold it to me, I went to buy it with an Audible credit just now but its not on there yet 😔
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10 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:
Honestly GW seems like it tried and failed to rip off Lovecraft when it comes to the chaos gods sometimes. It doesn’t help that for the most part the depictions and art of the 4 all make them seem somewhat humanoid. Josh Reynolds really made the Chaos Gods seem like primordial beings of madness by using astronomical terms to describe them. My favorite example is his description of Slaanesh in the second Fabius Bile book: a being whose smile is made up of galaxies and tears in the fabric of the universe. Doesn’t that sound horrifying?
I don't think Chaos was intended as a riff on Lovecraft by its original authors. More an existential reaction to the Good/Evil paradigm of the Fantasy they were otherwise in love with, in reflection of the post modern polit7cal and social entropy/melancholy of the decade in which they were writing. They were a way of making corruption and vice a central theme. The real enemy is within, etc.
Also The Chaos Gods are intensely interested in and invested in the workings of the world, like traditional deities.
Whereas the Horror of Lovecraftian beings is that they don't care. Not in contempt or intent. We simply do not register. Our lives and purpose are eclipsed by a greater reality utterly unaware of our existence. Nothing we can ever do will ever matter to the beings which are greater than us, be it 8n worship, defiance or anything in between. None of it matters That's Lovecraftian horror. Very removed from the Chaos Gods with their champions, agents, bestowments, blessings, gifts etc.
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1 hour ago, Higolx said:
Yeah, I never really saw the Chaos Gods as lovecraftian horror tbh. One could make a case for Tzeentch but even then I dont think its a strong one.
I think the Gloomspite Gitz's Bad Moon is much closer to a lovecraftian eldritch god/horror than chaos. They way its described in the battletome (It has a leering visage whose eyes are vast as oceans while fangs are the size of mountain ranges, and whose twisted features shift impossibly with every waxing and waning. It takes on various appearances. Sometimes it is little more than a sliver of sickly yellow light and at others it swells into a bloated monstrosity that swallows up the sky.), the effects it has on non greenskins (When it fills the skies it blocks out light as well as hope and rational thought to drive non-Greenskins mad who mutter nonsense rhymes or even babble weird dead languages. Looncap fungi erupt from their bodies with painful and often fatal results.). It all sounds much closer to a lovecraftian eldritch being, at least for me.
I have always found the imagery of the Bad Moon profoundly unsettling.
I don't know if it's still a thing but when I was a kid there was a concept of the "Man in the Moon". For some reason that was always a malign idea to me. I felt like whatever this entity was, that if I looked at it, it would be watching me.
One of my first ever Warhammer purchases was the multi part Night Goblins who came with a Bad Moon Banner, the same grinning, mad crescent face. I rember thinking my parents would tell me off when they found out I'd bought it (they didn't) because it felt adult and Bad. Something about sharp noses has always seemed off to me, you get it with witches too. There's something of the mad clown aesthetic too it I think. I noticed when I was painting a troggoth the other day that they're basically bloated clown faces:
I love the Gitz range for that reason. It absolutely nails that folkloric charisma but with with a really quite sinister and frightening undercurrent, the same way a Gryms tale goes from charming to just relentlessly nasty at the drop of a dime.
There was a lot of very overt, unpleasant and pretty juvenile emphasis on how terrible it would be to be a captive of the Dark Elves or Slaanesh within their respective lore, but Night Goblins/Gitz have always been the ones who gave me nightmares.
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6 minutes ago, Slaktor said:
Also true. Great book by the way.
Yep, works for exactly the reasons you state
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47 minutes ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:
Personally, I feel there’s a huge scope for Lovecraftian influences across the Mortal Realms. The metaphysical realm edges, the sheer scale of the realms, and the infinitesimal people — so tiny and insignificant compared to the ancient horrors and unspeakable things that sleep and wake and dream through the Ages — all help to build that sense of the unknown which I associate with Lovecraftian world-building.
Sentient mountains, inside which stir the desiccated remnants of an ancient hive, scuttling horrors glimpsed but never seen.
The incalculable minds of reptilian star-gods, patient, alien and cold.
Even Kharadron airships, descending from the clouds in a nimbus of steam and rain and wheezing metal, must seem terrifying and wondrous in equal measure to a tribe or people that’s never seen or heard or such technology before.
I don’t think any of this comes across in the games or army composition but I think the lore and some of the BL stories touch on it in interesting ways.
The beginning of one of the Broken Reams books, where Alarielle and her children join their voices in chorus as the tide of Beastmen washes over them, and the whole forest — the realm — hears them and stirs gave me such goosebumps…
Dark Harvest the novel is Shadows over Innsmouth but Kurnoth instead of Cthulu
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3 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:
This is floating around the Underworlds communities. It's a zoom-in of the artpiece of the Stormcast and Kruelboyz fighting.
With the underwater theme, I can't help but think of the Kvaldir from WoW.
Could just be a statue though
Don't think any of the other boxes have had any personnel on the front that wernt in the box?
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5 minutes ago, boyadventurer said:
They're up on the NZ site
Ooohhh thanks
Well I was dead wrong about it then 🤷♂️ mea culpa
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56 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:
The vulture is not from the Gutrippaz multikit. Here we go wave 2
Have you seen the sprues? Is there a picture I've missed?
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10 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:
We're getting wildly off-topic now, so don't want to continue this much more. What I do want to say is that any person who does something for hundreds of hours will naturally be more proficient at that task. I've played against AoS players (non-GW staff) in events who have an equally high level of understanding of the rules as Andy did with Necro (his mate was equally as good). Not particularly impressed that you've turned my comment about somebodies proficiency at playing into a cheap dig at GW's rule process.
Not particularly impressed that you as a moderator chose to punch down on me in public, not even private message, to defend the honour of a global corporation over an entirely legitimate opinion you happen to disagree with. The wider discussion has been around the accessibility of GW systems, mu comment was entirely in keeping with that wider discussion. At no point did I attack Andy. I very specifically mentioned GW. I didn't even attack them. I said that I think they don't care about rules. They can't or don't need to care about everything. They're clearly thriving with the focus they have.
Subjectively, were you in the same situation, I'm quite sure you would feel the same.
Delete my post if you want, thats your right, it happens, or if you want to talk to me or I would suggest any member about their behaviour, then have the courtesy to do it in private. Don't treat me or others like a naughty child in front of the school assembly for having a difference of opinion.
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48 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:
I was fortunate to watch Andy Hoare and a friend of his playing a game at WHW once and it was really fast paced and didn't feel clunky - but Andy's in charge of SG and has an encyclopaedic knowledge of the rules.
This explains GW rules process to a Tee, I think. If designers, or competitive players at the highest end of the game find it straight forward and accessible within playtesting, then that's what they consider straight forward and accessible.
If GW care about rules for the average gamer (which I maintain that comparative to models, they don't at all) they would test and design them with at least a reasonable percentage of input from said people
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52 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:
congrats & thank you for solving one of the older Rumour Engines!!! I would bet that this means Warcry warband rather than anniversary model.
Gutrippaz warscroll would have to mention this vulture if it was tied to the Champion (Vanguard-Raptors kit does this). So definitely a New Dude.
There's loads of AOS figures with little dudes who aren't on warscrolls. So dosent necessarily follow. SC tomes have also made a big thing of how birds are like their best friends and stuff and how they fight together.
Also there's nothing in the book that relates to this guys load out except a gutrippa with spear, which this dude literally is, just with a bird. Sometimes a bird is just a bird.
And GW have *never* released full pictures of a model without announcing it first, and I highly doubt it was just a mistake.
90% we'll find out he's just a gut rippa.
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32 minutes ago, Mutton said:
It really is horrendous. I'm not a fan of this Underworlds box in general. The weakest in the series imo.
Just seems really short sighted too. I know the purpose of Underworlds is not to make models for AOS, but a lot of them are pretty compelling hero or champion options.
With these you can have two orcs who have no statline- not a Killa, not a Murk, not a shaman, can't have snatchas on foot- who also dosent remotley fit with any of the existing units to act as a champion or even generic member, unless you want to add the flavour of one of the unit being on a Stag Do or something
One (1) Hobgrot to add to a unit of Hobgrots, wooo
2 f***ing grots, who can't be used at all.
It's just a pack of useless runts.
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7 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:
So this Kruel boy is not part of the Underworld warband nor the gutzripa boxset 🤔 ?
I still think he is. They said on the GR set there's a choice of 2 banners and musicians, we've only seen one of each. We've not seen all the set options basically.
But he's got a shield and a helmet and there's literally no profile that fits him in the new book. So from a game perspective he *has* to be a Gutrippa. That's the only profile that exists for that loadout.
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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I just had a thought: Imagine trying to paint that guy's face without sub-assembling.
Also, someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the two new warbands solve any rumour engines.
*sick noises*
I'm just so terribly dissapointed
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Hard pass on those Kruelboyz. Like...with the exception of the hobgrot they look like broken umbrellas brought to life by way of an experiment with Oscar the Grouch. Literally look rubbish.
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28 minutes ago, Iksdee said:
I really like almost all of the underworlds models to be honest. I like them because they change up the look of the the army a bit instead of all the samey basic units. Now i'm at the point that i start buying the ones that i can ally into my armies.
Biggest sucsess for the Mortal Realms for me is Underworlds. I'm amazed they haven't done it for 40k to be honest
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2 hours ago, Iksdee said:
Do we think the releases of Warcry and Underworld models is any kind of indication on what armies we can expect next? StD have a bunch of warcry models and got updated trough white dwarf. Bonesplitterz/ ironjaws/gloomspite gitz/idoneth got some underworlds sets. Does that indicate they wont get any model wave any time soon? What other armies didnt receive any love of some new models releases?
Certainly for the first two editions there was lots from designers of Underworld gangs saying that it was a place for them to practice and let their creative juices flow outside of major projects . Quite a few of the warbands at least at that stage were just Mortal Realms concepts that were not intended for release until Underworlds became a sort of vehicle for it.
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28 minutes ago, Popisdead said:
I see things going back to older motifs with making overarching battle tomes and sub factions and those themes being akin to what they've historically done. The AoS 1 splitting is reversing and people are happy. Look at Soulgrave. That's a very significant return to old GW style VC with a nice range update and heavy commitment to the line.
He was the Captain Kirk of Warhammer. He probably stowed away on a Seraphon Ziggurat and was busy getting busy with all the aliens and will sire the next line GW will release
click bait. Their rumours are based on click bait to generate ad revenue.
No they don't. Duncan Rhodes has to compete with Vallejo, Scale 75, Army Painter, etc.
A lot of people are fine and happy to use GW paints which overtime are always evolving and getting better than previous incarnations. GW does more than fine with their paint range.
They objectively do have to contend with a new paint range. Literal fact.
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6 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:
I agree with both of your viewpoints. Yes Cathay was essentially every oriental stereotype shoved in our face barring the Monkey King showing up with an army of shaolin monks drop kicking a bunch of daemons (for now). But at the same, I loved the fact that the Tomb Kings were every basic thing people know about ancient Egypt.
my belief on pastiche nowadays is as follows: if it gets someone interested in the culture being shallowly waded into, and inspires people to look into it, then it’s fair game. On the other hand, if the culture is being used to paint an already horrible popular idea of X culture, then shame on you.
A great example in Warhammer that hasn’t been expanded upon yet is Araby. The original models and lore for Araby was basically The 1001 Nights and every medieval belief about the Middle East. However, later editions expanded upon the lore, making them the sole survivors of Nehekhara (and possibly worshipping the same gods), as well as the stereotypical Djinn. It was a refreshing take when it seems like whenever a writer has touched the Middle East in the last three decades it always turned into a “Islam and Terrorism is bad” festival.The fundamental undeniable way to make progress on positive and creativley original and exciting concepts surrounding non Eurocentric cultural Influence is to *give authorship to people from or affiliated with those cultures*. GW is frankly atrociously behind on that front.
GW are basically no longer insensitive of cultural representation but thats very much a stagnant place to be. Imagine the potential of an AOS faction created by a team expert in Afrofuturism, for example.
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6 hours ago, Perturbato said:
Every one is hyped for Catah and i was coming here to see if i could find similar opinions as mine about not beeing happy about this Faction ..
It's ok if you all like it and the creators do what they want with their game but i wil say what i need here as it will help me finding my arguments in the future when people will ask me why i don't like it.
In the past my brother give me free ticket to go to the movie theater whatching "the great wall" because as a fireman he has free tickets by the town. Even if it was free i felt like i wasted something watching the movie. It felt so tasteless, with zero risk taking about creating something original and even dumb ideas for rule of cool.
Well the Cathay faction give me the same feeling and i don't know if it's because i just don't want to like it or if i'm right. I need Grimdark added to it in the same manner we have crazy ugly fanatics working for the Empire !
It feels like in WoW when some dude added a Panda and a suddendly a whole fanbase was asking for the lore of the Panda nations and then they created a whole new expansion about it. I was sceptical at first and then i saw they manage to give a soul to the expansion and it fitted in the lore. But here it looks like there is nothing new and it's generic at most.
But you will have get it : it's a subjective opinion, it's cool that people like it and i hope i'm wrong as i was before Mist of Pandaria for WoW.
Sorry Moderation if i's out of subject ... if more people are not happy with Cathay maybe will we create another topics
If everything is dark, nothing is dark.
You need glimmers of light to demonstrate how bleak everything else is.
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Troll the Second
Made him a bit more pink than the other guy cos he looked agitated.
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7 minutes ago, pixieproxy said:
If the warscrolls don't require Warhammer+ after beta this looks like the place we get them now.
They said you can "try it for free" which would suggest it's intended as a paid service sadly
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27 minutes ago, Kadeton said:
I thought the Cathay trailer was really slick and very well crafted. It was impressive for what it was.
But... it was so predictable. The faction seems like a thin pastiche of "stuff that Westerners vaguely know about China" - fireworks, terracotta warriors, paper lanterns, junks, Chinese dragons. All of those elements looked awesome on screen, but it didn't bring any new ideas, just the same old stereotypes of Orientalism. I was impressed by the spectacle, but I wasn't interested.
Yeah I agree with this. Unfortunately it's baked into the whole OW premise. In many respects Warhammer is just a riff on 16th century Eurocentric concepts, from an obsession with the apocalypse, demons, spiritual anxiety and fanaticism, the collision of the occult with science, to the notion of savagery or transcendence at the fringes. With heavy LOTR references.
It's a very interesting example of how even the well meaning progressively liberal people who came up with it can't escape the damage of harmful tropes and historical prejudice. Really interesting essay to be written on the subject by someone brave enough.
Of course most people won't agree with this- bjt that's because Warhammer predominantly reflects their cultural bias. The MCU is a good example of how licenses with global ambitions have had to confront this though.
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The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
There's definitely a part of me that feels as though there will be more Chaos Dwarf presence but that its just going to be in the form of Dwarves who worship Chaos sprinkled throughout the Chaos ranges, as they already are with Warcry
The Chorf/Legion of Azwhatever archetype is fairly bland for the AOS setting. Quite a big gamble to invest resources into the reinvention of a range which was never popular. There's already a faction of Duardin obsessed with Industry and Black Powder. Bad Factory Dwarves And Also Bulls is not particularly appealing outside of nostalgia prison.