[The Rumour Thread]

Orcs and Goblins were my first love and I really wish a trad Orcs and Gobbos army was viable because I think across the range most of the models are still tremendous. 

But from over three years of AOS release now it's overwhelmingly obvious that pan-cultural forces are not what GW are about with the system. They are releasing armies with a tight, unique aesthetic and half a dozen troop types with about the same again in heroes. AOS armies are basically God personalities made manifest, the rule book for AOS 2.0 made that abundantly clear.

So with the Greenskin fold, there's not much to be done for Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz to bring them up to release code to be honest. Rules wise they might need a tweak but they're not going to get a release for that. Bring Moonclan in which is obviously going to happen soon and you have the core GW greenskin personalties-Night Goblins, Black Orcs, Savage Orcs-all represented.  The one that's missing is basically your usual "Fantasy" orcs currently titled Green Skinz but I doubt you'll get that for IP reasons. Which is a shame because I love that aesthetic. But it's very much old Warhammer. 

I don't really get what it is you think you're missing? Destruction are very much the dumb fun smash stuff faction in the lore. They're there to be fun but in a heavily narrative driven product they just arent going to drive the plot the way Chaos and Undead do. Which to be fair has basically been the case since the early 90's anyway, Grimgor was really the only mover and shaker in Warhammers ongoing timeline and even then he was just on a crusade to fight everything. Not least because writing interesting personalities for creatures that just want to smash stuff is extraordinarily difficult. All the other Orc personalities were basically the same. They lead big Waaaghs, nearly toppled the Empire, or the Dwarf Realms, but didn't quite. They lacked an existential desire to be the best fighter in the world like Grimgor I guess.

But they're a very a thoughtless faction. They just do. And that's not good for driving fiction. Nagash's machinations,  it's easy to see how they create intrigue and plot points to release events and products to . Gorkamorka really really really wanting to bash stuff, not so much. Maybe you'll get a Nagash like tome that allows you to cross code the Greenskinz personalities to greater effect, but again, aside from that, what's missing? 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

20 hours ago, ledha said:

The Stormhost are not really better than the "non stormhost" road, so you are perfectly fine if you don't pick one. Staunch defenders is still the best general trait of the army.

As the magic items, you have one in your army, and another for each warscroll bataillion. Most of the time so, only two at best. The best items are for me the mirroshield, armor of sigmarite, luckstone, spellshield, staff of focus and lantern of the tempest

Thanks so much!

[The Rumour Thread]

3 hours ago, robinlvalentine said:

As a Stormcast player I'm not complaining, but Knight-Incantor has to be the most well-represented hero in Warhammer history. You get one in the starter set, another in the 'get started' magazine, you can build multi-part ones from the Evocator kit, and now there's one in the new Underworlds warband.

It makes sense for them to be easy to get hold of, as the go-to wizard for allying into Order armies, but this is maybe overkill! 

Agreed. Although as a Shadespire and StormcSt player I'm happy though because I can now make a legal sized unit of Evocators and get a whole game with it for the price that 5 Evocators otherwise would set me back. Although the repeated Evocators/Icantor sculpts seem to prove the  point that there's not much you can do with them, they all look very similar.

RE: the constant "Destruction never get anything" clamour, I don't get it. If you have an Ironjawz army I doubt 400 points of new grots or their rules are going to revolutionise your experience. If you want a new army, pick one of the many available rather than wait impatiently for one that you might not even like anyway. I fail to see how them belonging to a wider faction means anything.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

We're having a few 600 point no battleline rounds to kick off our Builder's League this weekend. Not convinced things will be remotely balanced at 600 but others are fine with it so it's all good. 

Knight Encantor

10 Sequitors 

6 Castigators

Ballista

Toss up between Encantor and Castellant but I figured the wizard aspect was important. Plus guranteed wounds at this scale felt very valuable.    

Thoughts? I've not played AOS yet so complete virgin here, do I have to pay for magic equipment etc? If not, what's good? Likewise if someone cleverer than me has a plan as to what to what Stormhost will offer the best synergy that would be lovely.

I don't have any other options available at present but I'm not particularly competitive either so it's more of a "How boned am I and why?" than a "Tell me what to take" deal. 

 

[The Rumour Thread]

6 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

It really looks cartoonesque to me. Like the orticulus before the new nurgle reveal. The horticulus was the only one  so cartoonesque. lets hope this one will do so.

BTW, I have for more than 20 years the old trolls (all of them, in metal) and they look far better in my taste.

Those are some of the best GW models ever produced, assuming you're talking about the Stone trolls? They're perfect

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, Greyshadow said:

Hmmm, some of the older non-plastic stuff like the chariot for sure but the Ungors, Gors, Bestigors, Brayshaman, Cygor, Ghorgon and even the Jaberslyth are really quite nice models (in my humble opinion). I agree though that a couple of new models would be great though.

I had a look after I posted and I agree they're not as bad as I remember them being! The proportions and aesthetic are perfectly acceptable in hindsight, I guess it's the fact that they're tremendously static and kind of uniform in their pose. They could do with exhibiting more energy and rage.

[The Rumour Thread]

Beastmen desperately need new models mind. The majority of the current batch were poor even when they were released Years and years ago.

[The Rumour Thread]

5 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Why not?

You don't get one of the systems to be as popular as the other by supportingly it less, but the other way around. If GW wants AoS to be as popular as 40k (and why wouldn't?) they should invest extra on it.

Having Warhammer Fest be Warhammer 40k Fest doesn't appear to be the best way to promote AoS.

Will NOVA sort this out? Hopefully, but there is no guarantee.

How did GW think a single Endless Spell would be enough to get AoS players hyped, I can't really understand.

A) GW is a business. In business, it is far more important to make plans according to capacity than aspiration. 40K has, oh, 20+ years of goodwill and currency within wider popular culture at this point, never mind just the Hobby,  on AoS, they aren't going to catch that up within 2.

But what is apparent to anyone who gives even a cursory look is that GW are working at their full capacity to support both main systems and Specialist Games and their output in all areas is frankly prodigious and all areas are doing well. And as mentioned before, they have the profits to prove it. They know what they're doing and how much to invest in each. That's just a fact currently.

B) AOS 2.0 is of course designed to attract new players but it fundamentally serves the purpose of ensuring existing players continue to invest in a a product that they can see is lively and evolving.  Anyone interested in AOS can see that that is indeed the case, and then some ,on the back of this years releases.  Theres been something every month, including three entirely new factions, a new magic system and an entirely new version of the game for starters. In the space of 6 months.

Further to that though its very apparent that GW are interested in selling AOS as a narrative product at least as much as a games system. Their releases are scheduled around story telling devices. No story ever begins introducing 20 characters at once. For that reason alone, expect to wait a while for new reveals after a certain point.  

You mention elsewhere that this dosent work for your preffered play style. Thats entirely your perogative, but it's not the demographic GW are aiming the product  at. But then that's always been the case. GW evolved as a means of using rules to play with your collection of toy soldiers and fantasy minus i.e. The fluff and the character was there first and then they added the rules so you could play with them. That's why GWs minis and fiction has been so consistently impressive-it's always been the priority. Rules are an afterthought. If you want to play skirmish games or war games there are literally dozens of systems created with balance and rules and strategy as their focus. But GW has never been invested in that side of things. The rules are a bonus to allow you to do something with your toys, that's all.

Because, and this brings the whole thing full circle, the only way to ever make AOS as popular as 40k will be if they develop it into an immersive, evolving, rich fiction like 40k.  They're not interested in selling a faction, they're interested in selling an entire world and IP. You don't do that by saying "Here are Elves this month. Here are Goblins this month." 

By taking the time to build a better more robust fiction and place faction reveals at points within that they ensure a far healthier future for and commitment to AOS than just releasing stuff bi-monthly and saying there you go have fun.

C) Not to mention that GW sell a product which requires natural time investment. To assemble, build an army and paint them to even the barest standard requires far more time than pretty much any other gaming hobby takes to complete an entire game if not several. It's not a hobby for impatient people basically.

The people willing to be patient with things are going to be GW's best customers because the hobby basically requires that. The fickle people demanding constant novelty aren't going to stick around in a hobby which dosent reward that kind of mentality so GW arent going to worry about trying to appeal to people who want that. Bottom line is those people will probably invest intensely for a short while and disappear. GW will get a nice injection of fast sales from them and then have the backbone of committed steady hobbyists to keep things at a steady pace. 

[The Rumour Thread]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

We know the first half of 2018 was going to be 40K heavy because GW said they'd release ALL codex within a year or so, clearly  this is going to overshoot some. That said 2019 really needs to be a strong year for Sigmar now that 2.0 is out and GW really needs to build on the power of that launch.

They posted their highest sales year in history last year. They very much know what they're doing, I wouldn't worry about them not realising the potential of one of their products at this point. A year since Dark Imperium the overwhelming majority of armies have new army books, that's insane by any previous editions standards. Many armies would go through an entire edition without even getting up to code. Hell even Malign Portents which was basically the epilogue to AOS 1 was very well served by products and as a hobby event.

To be honest the 40k Fantasy comparison is kind of weird anyway. There's this notion that there should be equality between them, an even 50:50 split. While this makes sense from a purely abstract notion of fairness, GW has never said it will support both precisely at the same ratio. Moreover the player base globally definitively isn't equal either. So given that the expectancy that both systems be equally as served as each other doesn't actually make much contextual sense.

[The Rumour Thread]

11 hours ago, Overread said:

Because of the spread of games and factions someone will always be disappointed; or if not that at least not as interested and fired up. When there's nothing you want or what you want was already leaked earlier you might not have as much heart into a reveal event as some others. 

Sometimes you just have to filter out the negative viewpoints and accept them for what they are and not let them taint your own impression of events. 

 

 

This. As someone who has followed GW since the early nineties there has never been an equilibrium at events. Never mind the fact that the volume of releases for both Fantasy and 40k and Specialist Games is now is utterly staggering in comparison.  GW have never been even close to being as prodigious as they are now.  You're getting in a quarter now what you would have expected in nearly a year around the early 2000's.

What I will say though is that there seems to be a real absence of reasons to actually go to the event. All reveals up online within minutes at higher fidelity than you'd get to see in the flesh. No demos or dioramas. They were always the reason to go to Games Day etc. Or indeed any Warganmes Show like Salute etc. I would have thought even more so now given that the internet makes trades shows basically obsolete, even loss-making. And as far as I'm aware, there's no unique mini for the event anymore either. That seems a shame.

[Painted Shadespire Warbands - Please post]

Jimi Steelheart Experience completed. Anghart will get her shield when I can be bothered to paint it. Anghart No-Shield for the time being.

 

[WiP Wednesdays]

Steelheart Experience done, other than the bases and Hammer Girl's shield. Very enjoyable to paint these guys.

[Painted Shadespire Warbands - Please post]

21 minutes ago, Kugane said:

I sort of liked the grimdark theme for these. I have not been a fan of the bright red Khorne models, despite that that is kind of their theme. At this point I keep searching for quick paint techniques to get large batches of models done in a short time, but like pointed out by many people, contrast can suffer from that though

Thank you very much for the advice! I think most of this can even be achieved with a couple of glazes to lighten up areas, so shouldn't be too difficult to pull off. I still find it hard to find the right colour schemes for the bases at times. I quite like the green bases as well. Once I am done with current projects I'll go back and fix that. I'll probably do the same for the dwarf warband, since those too have a quite bland colour scheme going on.

The other technique you can try with contrast is simply to focus on areas that you want to draw the eye to-probably the head or top of the model in most instances-and highlight those to a greater degree, or glaze them with something interesting etc. I'm not saying leave everywhere else flat, but just be selective.  Not everything requires a line highlight and often if you give it one it just makes everywhere look the same. Most of the Great painters, as in artists, not mini painters, create drama through selective contrast. It's a big reason why John Blanche's stuff is so evocative.

I've not painted in about a decade so I'm not saying my own work should be held up as any sort of prime specimen, but my interest in returning to painting is in part due to my renewed interest in actual art and trying to use some of that theory, rather than how I learned to paint from White Dwarf. And there's nothing wrong with that approach at all but it's not me, I don't have the patience to give e erything equal attention. I've found it far more interesting and enjoyable to think about the overall drama or tone of each mini and being that out, have it be an expressive experience rather than just stick to "this bit is brown because it is a belt".

I'm half way through the Jimi Steelheart experience and I wanted to try and give each one more character in their paint job, so the intent was to convey that through the way I did the armour; Hammer Guy is no-nonsense and pragmatic so a lot of his core is left dark, and the focus is on his hands and ch st, Hammer girl is more liquid and fluid so I highlighted her curves more, and Jimi Steelheart is a bit pompous and flash so his pec and six pack armour got special attention and he gets the shiniest highlights over all. Ive no idea if any of that comes off at all but the point is it was fun for me to work with those ideas and made each mini more unique to paint and less like an assembly line job. It also made me keen to experiment because I was enthusiastic about creating a concept rather than worried about ruining a neat paint job.

 

[Painted Shadespire Warbands - Please post]

On 6/17/2018 at 12:38 PM, Kugane said:

I wanted to get magores fiends done since I do not plan to play the warband, but still wanted to finish it in case I change my mind in the future. So I decided to experiment and see what i can produce speed painting. I spent about 15 minutes per miniature with the below results. Still need to finish the rims and such. What is your honest opinion about these? I overpainted a lot due to the speed, but the wash seems to have fixed most issues. Is this a decent enough standard? The hound failed slightly, but oh well.

I love 'em. I'm not a fan of obvious highlighting as I find it can have something of a "magic eye" aesthetic to it in that the colours and patterns of the highlighting often break up the composition of the model. These are very different to that, their tone and identity comes across very clearly.

For me I'm far more about the narrative of a painted model than the technique, technique is just what you use to create the narrative, it shouldn't be the thing you notice first or most of all. I would be delighted with these if they were mine. 

[WiP Wednesdays]

The Jimi Steelheart Experience 

Fixing them into their bases first was stupid, I was a fool.

I hated the Stormcast on release, and the AOS concept in general but I've been wooed by both with the release of 2nd edition. First models I've painted in years but they're a joy so far. Although No Helmet Jones looks a bit of a prat.