[AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion]

My experience with 10 boarboyz is that they rarely all get to make their attacks due to space. Dunno if 15 would be as efficient as maths suggests in many actual games for that reason. 
 

I bring the non-maniak boarboyz for the 2” spears that also get the charge bonus (so can roll them together with tusks & hooves at 2/2 hit/wound on turn 2), and extra survivability after that charge - they’re also a prime candidate for save-buffing and make an excellent and cheap tarpit.
 

Also usefully a tarpit that sits BEHIND the opponent, often blocking them from their own deployment zone’s objective and sometimes trapping them between boars and regular boyz while arrows plink away at them. 

[What would you like to see for 3rd edition?]

51 minutes ago, BlooDeck said:

I think they've added already revealed the fate of Araloth's people. The Slaanesh battletome mentions the few untainted elves in the Mortal Realms were from some hidden sub-realm created by the old elven gods. But it would be cool nonetheless to have Brets back, even if it was just a way to style the Cities of Sigmar. 

If the Wanderers/Phoenix Temple/Darkling Coven/etc (ie CoS Elves without a patron deity) were descended from Araloth’s people it would neatly tie up that quandary, but I’d still be super down to see Araloth + daughter re-emerge since they took The Lady of the Lake’s place as a god as Endtimes happened, and also whatever happened to the Grail Knights (knightly folk for CoS!). 

[What would you like to see for 3rd edition?]

8 hours ago, Pyrescribe said:

My best friend is a Bretonnian through and through, and he won't touch a miniatures game where Bretonnians aren't actively supported. I want Bretonnians back. Not as a city of Sigmar in Azyr, but maybe as a human enclave out in Ghur.

Currently there is no Death faction that really draws my interest. A Soulblight faction with soulblight battleline units, possibly styled as they are in Castlevania, would be awesome.

Brets being entirely absent feels like such a waste when they had a story hook for bringing them back - Araloth and  his daughter with The Lady of the Lake going with the Grail Knights and some Wood Elves through a portal to a hidden mortal realm not yet touched by Chaos to avoid the Endtimes. Later they said “oh when Chaos ravaged other worlds before AoS but after Endtimes, they wiped out those hiding neo-Brets”, but that’s an incredible waste of a good story hook. 

They just need to say “oh Chaos thought they had wiped them out but actually they used their new fay Green Knight-like talents to provide that illusion as they escaped yet again, and now in their latest jump between dimensions these ethereal half-elven chivalrous dimensional nomadic knights have arrived in the Mortal Realms”. 

But I guess Lumineth now fill a lot of that knightly slot, alas. 
 

As for Soulblight - yes please, asap. 

[Argument for Strength and Toughness in Age of Sigmar]

Obviously this is all down to personal preference - though for me a big part of Warhammer is the narrative immersion, so I do like mechanics to more faithfully recreate what the minis seem to be doing. 
 

If a wound roll with a range of S and T values is too much busywork, I’d be fine with a simpler mechanic that represents the same - make a roll or universal modifier based on each unit’s Infantry, Monster, Hero, etc keyword perhaps (infantry wound each other fine but find it harder to wound monsters, etc). 

[Argument for Strength and Toughness in Age of Sigmar]

I kinda feel like the “you have to stop to compare stats!” point is overblown. The attacker already had to look at their To Hit, and the defender already has to look at their Save - SvT just means both look at once rather than only switching who’s looking later. 
 

Also not convinced by the simulation vagueness argument. The hit roll is obviously accuracy, the wound roll is about force vs resilience/physical toughness, and the save roll is about piercing vs armour.  My issue is more that the wound roll’s job is very overlappy with the job of damage/wounds. Maybe the number of wounds is meant to represent size and bulk, rather than toughness or resilience, but they’re pretty close. 
 

As for using a different die like a D20, that would reduce the number of rolls but make the game massively less accessible - and GW isn’t streamlining for no reason, the ultimate priority is accessibility. Everyone has or can easily get a D6, and understands it well enough. A D20 is a barrier for casual and new players, both in terms of “they won’t have one and may not know where to buy one” (and GW pushing D20s is going to look like they only used D20 to take more money from them) and in terms of intimidation and unfamiliarity. 

[Argument for Strength and Toughness in Age of Sigmar]

I mostly would prefer SvsT over To Wound because right now it just feels repetitive - the To Wound roll is identical in the way it functions to the To Hit roll. It’s just lowering the chance of success by making you roll a second To Hit style roll. 
 

This seemingly “adds nothing” repetition makes the “just make Hit and Wound a single roll” argument come up a lot more, IMO. 
 

I prefer it when each roll has its own dynamic and feel to it. Putting aside modifiers (including Rend) as any roll can have those, To Hit is a roll based on the attacker’s stats, SvsT is a roll based on a comparison between attacker and defender’s stats, and Save is a roll based on the defender’s stats. There’s a satisfying symmetry to that and no roll feels the same or feels redundant.

[What would you like to see for 3rd edition?]

My hope is they cool it on new factions for a while (with Sons of Behemat, AoS is up to 24 book factions by my count - same as 40k if you don’t count every SM supplement), and flesh out the ones we already have. Fyreslayers are probably the worst offender that comes to mind for just being basically variations on a single model’s theme, but many factions could do with a second wave to make their range wider and deeper. 

[AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion]

7 hours ago, tripchimeras said:

Why do you want to move away from the Rogue Idol?  Have you found it lacking or are you just looking to try something new?  Personally I think generally the best Big Waagh armies tend to be primarily (about 2/3) one faction with the other filling out a role the primary lacks.  I think if you go too far down 50/50 you often end up with a jack of all trades master of none situation.  If your base is bonesplitters (mine is usually as  well) I'd go for adding Gore Gruntas, a megaboss, and a warchanter for starters.  They give you some much needed multi-wound rending punch and if you make the megaboss your general and give him brutish cunning they give you some really great tactical options.  Now doing this ofcourse is putting a lot of points and resources into support characters that are really only good for helping 1 unit (though don't sleep on the megaboss with +1 damage from warchanter either, he's no slouch).  I think this is the trap with big waagh lists, once you start adding support characters of one type it encourages more units of the same type to buff and there are just not enough points to go around between fully buffing multiple bonesplitter AND ironjawz units at the same time.  This I think is where Rogue Idol comes in and creates a bridge between the two armies.   So definitely encourage you to play around with more ironjawz in your list (especially gore gruntas), but do be mindful that Rogue Idol actually gets better when you have support characters of both types.   

As for the Waagh point gameplan I think they certainly encourage a more defensive approach.  Rarely do I find a game where my starting loadout doesn't involve me stringing congo lines of savage orruks zig zagging across the length of my lines to allow me the time to get to t2.  I don't think its ill advised at all to hang back first turn, especially if your opponent doesn't leave himself wide open.  That being said I think its important to deploy flexibly and if your opponent leaves you an opening t1, do not be afraid to go in sans waagh points if you don't need them.  They are an amazing bonus, but they are just that, a bonus.  If my opponent doesn't set up his screens properly in deployment I will very often go full alpha and fly in my rogue idol and mighty destroyer my gore gruntas in for long bomb charges opponent wasn't expecting out of the gate.  The great and wonderful thing about this strategy is that it is low risk.  The second I don't get off my fly spell on the rogue idol, or I realize I screwed up my bubbles and don't have maxed out buffs on my gore gruntas or whatever it is super easy to just revert to turtle mode as I will always have my savage orruk screans out and ready to turtle down and build up my waagh points for next turn.

Sorry for insanely long post, feeling talkative today, been a while since I've posted much haha.  TLDR is add ironjawz slowly and carefully, and don't be so quick to rule out adding a couple ironjawz pieces but keeping Rogue Idol.  There is still enough space to keep your bonesplitters core in place, you might just have to lose a battalion.  Your army as is sounds fun though regardless.

Thanks so much for the long and considered reply! 

Yeah, for me I find the Rogue Idol just doesn’t perform as well as I’d like for the points. Maybe that would change after adding a Warchanter and such to slap IJ buffs on him too - that was my original thinking behind him!

But in my games he tends to do next to no damage (or literally no damage, as in my last game against Khorne - my fault for guessing target priority wrong, I suppose), and while he stops a few enemy units moving forward for a turn while they take him out, he does go down (even with his 2+ rerollable save and 5+ wound shrug) fast and then leaves a 420 hole in my list. Maybe I’m pointing him at the wrong things, though.

As for motivation behind adding more IJ, it’s a few things. Partly just looking to expand my collection and add options, since I enjoy list building but only really have one way to run my collection right now. The goal would be to move towards a collection that could also support a “mostly IJs” Big Waaagh later on, and this more 50-50 list is just a stepping stone to get there, that also will help be get more familiar with IJ units and how they work. 

Good to know I’m not barking up the wrong tree playing a bit more defensively while charging up the Waaagh points, then! Typically my gameplan has been to throw the Idol at something juicy or use it to tie up some of the more dangerous threats turn 1, while the rest of the list moves closer but still a safe distance from the enemy if possible (and grabbing objectives if they can safely do so). Then rush forward once I hit 20 Waaagh points turn 2. 

[AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion]

Heya, moving from pure Bonesplitterz to Big Waaagh lately, and wondering about how the army plays and the Ironjawz portions should be used. 

I own one of each Bonesplitterz Leader, 20 arrowboyz, 20 savage orruks, 10 moreboyz, 10 boarboys (spears and shield), a rogue idol, and now some Brutes. Probably looking to add a Start Collecting Ironjawz to that, and don’t have shelf space for a mawkrusha so going to avoid that. 

Previously I’d been running a Kunning Rukk to spam double-shoot each turn while I screened them with savage orruks, flung a flying 2xMove buffed up (2+ Save with rerolling 1s) Rogue Idol into the enemy lines first turn, and sent boar boys to grab a distant objective with some big stabbas aiming to lay down some hurt where needed. 

So I was thinking of dropping the rogue idol for the Start Collecting box, and dropping the Wurrgog Prophet also, since I wasn’t gonna do the first turn buffs on the idol anymore - just focus on the Bonesplitters side buffing the Rukk’s shooting. 
 

What’s the gameplan for Waaagh points? I am pretty reliably hitting 20 on turn 2, but worry a little about losing models before that (when they haven’t had a chance to get stuck in with the +1 to hit and wound, to make their value back). Is it ill-advised to hang back a bit first turn with the melee stuff?