DerZauberer
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Posts posted by DerZauberer
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Had an interessting discussion regarding Skragrott recently.
Right now hes costed at 160 points which, to be honest, is way to cheap. And while we had our post battle discussion, we tried to make up a more appropiate cost for Skragrott in which i shortly realized, that, Skragrott is just an incredible must have piece which i simply can not point right.
Mobile Moon Aura , good caster, every moonclan spell, absurd MW snipe spell, 2 free CP per round, moon manipulation. Each point is just so good and makes some unreliable mechanics reliable.
Due to Skragrott i allways manage to have the moonlight where i need it to be and his mortal wound spell and all moonclan spells makes him just such an allrounder. Adding free CP on top makes him just incredible.
I made a thought experiment and at 160 to 250 he would still be an auto include, at 260 - 300 points i would still think about including him. At 350 ill be more reserved - 400 would be too much? But maybe not? How do you price a piece which makes your whole faction more reliable, eliminating most random factors of your faction ability and identity?
What are your thoughts?
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1 hour ago, KrispyXIV said:
It really does depend on whether or not the 'combined attacks' rules are used, and exactly how optional they are. The rules say you 'can' use them in all cases - making them sure sound optional (most likely at the discretion of the attacker). If they are optional, then you can absolutely tempt someone after their first save, well before they know whether they're going to fail so many saves d3 mortals won't make a difference, or if d3 mortals will kill their unit where it otherwise wouldn't.
Okay, i get it. There's a difference in information after the first save or the fifth save roll. That makes the rule a bit clunky to use. Thanks for the explanation!
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On 3/19/2023 at 8:14 PM, KrispyXIV said:
So, kindof a QoL issue but something to consider for temptation dice - attacks technically happen in sequence, not all at once.
You and your opponent should be resolving temptation dice well before your opponent has perfect knowledge of whether his unit is going to survive or not (or how well their attack is going, etc.) - after the first failed save (or hit/wound roll) in most cases (or after the second, vs. Blissbarb Seekers for example), when rolls could still go very well or very poorly, leaving the fate of the unit still in question.
I've been discussing this with my immediate playgroup (the 4-6 people normally play), and I think what we're going to do is call things ahead of time - "I'm going to tempt you on your first failed save, are you going to accept or reject?" - and unless they don't want to do that, do it that way. Otherwise, we'll resolve the 'correct' way - roll each save one at a time in sequence.
But it is very much not to the Hedonites players advantage to offer dice after your opponent has perfect knowledge of the outcome of the results of an entire combat.
Correct me if im wrong, but the D3 MW are done after all the attacks have been resolved. Save rolls are part of the attack sequence regarding the core rules. Means the information is still the same. Even if you tempt me to get 6 on my save, it still resolves after all saves are made and i know if my unit will survive or not. And as you only offer a maximum of one dice per unit per phase, it should not matter if you tempt me after all my save rolls are done or in between my roles.
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36 minutes ago, Malakree said:
I think the two big things is that Ardboyz are way more survivable, with a 4+ and conditional 6++ it makes them incredibly tanky, less vulnerable to battleshock and also count for all the orruk keywords. That said the hobgrots being faster and having a shooting attack is a big bonus.
I think the Orruk Keyword is the real bummer here. Not getting Waaagh Points when in combat or the possibility to teleport them with hand of gork is huge.
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12 hours ago, Malakree said:
I overwhelmingly agree with this, I'm just torn between keeping the Ardboys or maybe splashing some hobgrots.
Why is there actually no talks about Hobgrots?
80 points seem fine for a 10 model unit to screen with. The space they can cover should be good and their range attacks seems quite ok. Run and shoot seems fine. The only problem seems to be the low bravery and low save - but they are made for dying, so who cares?
Would be really interessting to compare 80 points hobgrots to 85 points of ardboyz.
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16 hours ago, Smash said:
How much value do you get from your swampcalla? To me having more boltboyz in msu without buffs seem better than investing in the shaman.
And is gobsprak good enough?
I agree with you that screenwise, the list has its weaknesses. It's tough to say how much value the swampcalla brings, on paper he doubles your chance for mortal wounds with a unit of boltboyz. Sometimes i casted with him nasty hex when in range and important or mystic shield when no targets for boltboyz. The thing with MSU boltboyz is (in my oppinion), they seem to be no real threat to most things, they merely chip away wounds of stuff they target, especially without buffs.
A 6 man unit with swampcalla & snatchaboss buff and gobsprakk unleash hell did for me the two games ~10MW + a bunch of normal wounds - enough to stop several units from charging the ardboyz screening the boltboyz, gobsprakk, swampcalla snatchaboss. On paper without swampcalla, its just ~6MW, without the snatchaboss its ~4MW, MSU only 2 ~MW, as much as my mathhammer doesnt abbandon me.
When i charge a screen of hobgrots or ardboyz with unbuffed MSU Boltboyz in unleash hell range, i would easily accept the trade and charge when the outcome brings me closer to my objective.
But i agree that the swampcalla feels bad - he just sits there. My thought with the list was, to make three points of contact, the kruelboy ball with ardboy screen, the VF brutes and VF GGs - all points which hit very hard in melee (or unleash hell) and dont seem like juicy targets. The list crumbles tho without VF and all the kruelboyz buffs, i agree.
Gobsprakk imo is great, he really benefits from the BW bonus to cast und dispell and there is always something usefull in the swamp lore to cast. Yeeting the snatchboss with sneaky miasma and fast un across the board can be key and i cant state enough how important the 6" reposition is in a cagey, defensive BW list. I've seen so many important repositions fail on the dice roll. Besides that, he is just a fun piece of anti-magic which often lead to people not use spells like mystic shield - something we greatly appreciate due to most of my stuff having -2 rend.
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Had some nice games over the weekend against Maggotkin and Stormcast and won both with following Big Waaagh List:
QuoteAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)*
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)**
- General
- Command Trait: Egomaniak
- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Wurrgog Prophet (150)**
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)***
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)**
Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)***
- Pig-iron Choppas
Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord
***Hunters of the Heartlands
Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact
Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 11I think it has a lot of unique options and takes good advantage of big waaagh with 4 spell casters. It pretty much has all the tools (gorkamorka warcry, hand of gork, nasty hex) and gobsprakk is a great utility piece here as well. You generate good Waaagh Points and have the neceserry redundant warchanters for BW.
I played it slowly and cagey turn 1 and 2 as BW and the chosen units are inherintly slow. Gobsprakks reposition 6" here was very helpful. You pretty much have 3 major threats, the Brutes with Violent Fury, the Gore Gruntas with Violent Fury and your kruleboyz ball (snatchboss, swampcaller and boltboyz). The ardboyz are primarily for screening the boltboyz, snatchaboss and wizards. The Weirdnob is allways a certain threat with his mask, so thats nice as well.
If you get to +1/+1 hit/wound, all the venom buffs etc. this list is very scary with all the buffing and debuffing going on, but i can imagine it crumbles to alphastrikes, as you can only cover little territory with unleash hell boltboyz (but if they can unleash hell, they are a major threat). Without violent fury and the venom buffs, the damage output of this list is very lackluster. It really shines when getting to 20 Waaagh Points.
No MBMK is ofcourse sad, but i allways use him way to aggressive for BW lists, so skipping him was no big deal for me in BW.
Another issue are command points - you need reposition and unleash hell, but also inspiring presence for your brutes and all out defence.
Do you guys use the Ere we go Heroic action? Its easy on the first turn (but also gives just one point), but do you use it on the 2+ turn? I cant justify using the hereoic action as command points or finest hour are just to good in this list imo.
Whats your oppinion on the list? Anything you miss?
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So i'm back at figuring out Big Waaagh! in the new book and i'm trying out some lists after playing mainly Ironjawz which - to be fair - are quite straight forward. Next weekend i'm trying this BW list out for example:
QuoteAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (300)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Battleline
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
Drops: 10
I'm a big fan of gobsprakk and love the swamp lore. In my opinion having sneaky miasma and nasty hex at hand everytime i need it or debuffing with black pit or horde control with chocking mist is just great and he gives me the flexibility. I dont understand the hate he gets, he was great in my BW practice games yet. But to be fair, i'm in no overwhelmingly shooty meta, maybe thats why. Would love to hear why you guys think gobby is bad.
Besides that MBMK is a must, warchantes are a must. Wurrgog is a fun piece which i don't dig that much for 150 points, but of course the BW points and the mask stare is great.
Besides that, a 10 man Brute unit for the second warchanter buff and two units of 5 ardboys for objectives. And last 6 Boltboyz with Swampcalla Poison for hero sniping or other threat removal which benefits greatly of gobbsprakks better unleash heall.
The only thing i see here is the low count of bodies - but on the other hand theres 4 threatining pieces which should be able to gold 2/3 of objectives mostly.
Artefacts and command traits im still unsure about, also i think BW needs the one-drop battalion so you can go second. Which do you prefer with BW? Low drops or more artefacts? Some artefact im missing here?
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12 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
Yes Spiral-Staplers don't look nice, yet it's utterly practical and it'd be great to keep up to date, add rules, change rules, rewrite rules and update rules.
Releasing Spiral-Staplers in 2021-2023 for factions in A4 would be quite hilarious, why not even make them whole file folders for all the FAQs, White Ddwarfs, Campaigns etc. 😁
I love my bound battletomes with all the art and lore to browse through. Just make all rules digital and update or add to them in the digital space, its that easy. The route they are going with the codes in tomes for apps is a good one (another one would be a monthly subscription for all rules without the codes) - we just need good apps which are always up to date.
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1 hour ago, AaronWilson said:
I like one in big waagh as he can reliably cast it with sacrificing points. I don't him in IJ but I feel he forces you to take a Warlord batallion for Skullcap, without I'd just go battle regiment and leave him home.
Its such a hard investment to make just for the teleportation alone. I get that he offers tactical flexibility and a threat to the board by teleporting whole squads in benefitial postions, but on its own its unreliable. And giving him a artifact just to get +1 to make it less risky blocks up ironsunz and destiny trinket for example.
We need the artifact slot somewhere else imo, ironsunz seem to be outright great in AoS3 as the command ability just went stronger on smaller boards and the CA changes. It makes battle round 1 so comfortable to go as ironsunz.But you need to get the "worse" artifact and a second megaboss to get for example the destiny trinket on our Mawkrusha. And here is where the Weirdnob is in direct competetion with a second megaboss.
I guess lets wait and see what the new tome brings - my guess tho is that Big Waaagh will outshine IJ due to the lack of shooting and casting in IJ - and in Big Waaagh we should have plenty of good caster choices.
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Do you guys think IJ still needs a Weirdnob for Big Green Hand?
In my AoS3 games i've had the feeling several times now that he's just not worth it.
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On 7/16/2021 at 3:41 PM, Malakithe said:
Also I have no idea what the DoomShroom does now as I dont have the new warscrolls for endless spells
The new warscrolls for Gloomspite Spells are within their latest FAQ, https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/zlz7V5Cs5CzGDO8k.pdf
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18 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:
Are units of 40 stabbas big enough for this edition or are people still going 60? Wondering if 40 is big enough as everyone generally takes smaller units in 3.0, at least theoretically.
I find Gloomspite Gits are really dependent on those reinforcement points, respectively the max number of times you can double/tripple your unit size.
Theres several units who compete for bigger unit sizes - stabbas, boingrots, battleline troggoths, fanatics, squig herd...
It will be difficult in a mixed gloomspite army i think, but if you go full grots (with all the buffs and stuffs) you should have one block of 60 as it is a huge force multiplier for several CA, like redeploy, +1hit, loonboss, battleshock immune etc.
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On 7/18/2021 at 5:43 PM, Malakree said:
EDIT: I'm also seriously thinking that an emerald lifeswarm to sit the mawkrusha might be close to mandatory now. D3 heal every hero phase and using it to block some envelops seems so good on paper.
I've seen Emerald Lifeswarm do a heavy lifting last weekend, it was quite painful to watch as the Fyreslayer player had problems to dispell it. It brought back 10+ wounds on Belakor in one game. It's a really good power, even if you cast it only once and it gets dispelled afterwards it should be atleast 2D3 Heal.
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18 hours ago, Malakree said:
1 per hero phase and 1/2 from the start of the round is 3/4 base per round
When general alive 1 CP, 1 CP when you go first, 2 CP if you go second. Thats 2-3 base. You can use your single Hereoic Action to get another one on 4+, but miss out on the other 3 hereoic actions, of which all are really good.
+1 hit, +1 save, mighty destroyers and once a waaagh are allready CAs you want to use in your turn, +1 hit, +1 save, redeploy, battleshock are CAs you want to use on your enemy turn (but you get one more CP in your enemy turn). Thats possibly 8 commands with only 6 points max. per round, of which two are only on 4+ and heroic actions.
I don't know, those are only the generic ones which are allready really good. Can imagine there will be plenty of really good CAs in the new Battletomes.
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Had an interesting interaction with belakor and my megaboss last week in a game of AoS3.0.
It was turn 2, Belakor used his "The Dark Master" ability on my Megaboss (roll per phase, if 3+, unit cannot do stuff, e.g. use command abilities (which is erratad for "issue" or "receive" CA).
It's the start of the combat phase, he rolls a 3+ and my Megaboss cant do stuff. I've wanted to use my waaagh! faction command ability, read the rules and nowhere in the Ironjawz Waaagh CA or the Errata i've found that the Megaboss actually issues the command. I've had at weirdnob right next to him, he uses Waaagh!, we still measure from the megaboss, i got +2 Attack allthough my Megaboss could not issue CAs, my Weirdboy did.
Even in the Core Book errata where all "old" CAs were explained or erratad, i've found no information on whether this move was legal or not.
It literally won me the game and i'm curious if the TGA Hivemind had any experience with belakor and ironjawz waaagh.
Any thoughts?
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35 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:
I really hope they come out and say that they're either part of Warclans or a separate BT, I hope and believe that they will be a part of Warclans.
July 3rd I'm expecting a launch day Online Preview going over Dominion and 3.0 in general alongside showing off the new Starter Sets and Painting sets with hopefully a sneak peak at the future of Kruelboyz and SCE with new minis and the BT covers.
It's pretty much confirmed that Kruleboyz are part of Orruk Warclans. They share the same list "Orruk Warclans" in the pitched battle profiles of the generals handbook 2021. Meaning that Bonesplittaz, Ironjawz and Kruleboyz are all part of one book.
Big Waaagh also is confirmed as theres severall units marked as battle line in "Big Waaagh" Allegiance.
Excited how Kruleboyz get incorporated in Big Waaagh!
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16 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:
Do we think Ardboys in 10s are gonna be ok or is it 15s or bust?
Wanna try out 2xMBoMK, Warchanter and a Weirdnob, 3x10 Ardboys and 3 Gruntas for 1970.
Imo ardboys are very difficult to use even at 10. New coherency rules and 1" range with the basesize made it hard to get more then 6 into combat. I loved my 5 man Brute squads the one game of AoS3.0 with all-out-attack, waaagh and violent fury, but this can be very subjective.
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Played a game this weekend with a fairly typical IJ list against Slaanesh and with the new Command Abilities IJ seem powerful.
AoS3.0 got a nice mindgame going with when to activate redeploy and all-out-defence as our opponent to evade smahing and bashing.
Interesstingly we still drain CP fast, like really fast. In Turn 2 going first made my options with 2 CP (as i had to go finest hour on MKMB) very limiting.
Biggest Winner for me is the Maw-krusha Boss, he gets absurdly tanky with all-out-defence/finest hour/mysticshield and defensive artifacts.
But teleporting 10man Ardboy units which can issues commands to themselves like reroll charges or all-out-attack was crazy good too.
On the Topic of MKMB: I love to give him all-out-defence or mystic shield for the 2+ save. But would you consider Sunblessed Armour (Ironsunz -1 rend) or the new 5+ Wardsave generic artifact? I've run with Ironsunz, got my Footboss the Sunblessed Armour and my MKMB the wardsave and barely needed the wardsave. Maybe its better to get a second spell from the spell lore instead of the additional artifact with the battalion?
Btw: The new boardsize makes it just great going second as ironjawz, especially ironsunz - half of my army was in combat going second in turn 1 allthough my opponent was very carefully. I strongly believe ironjwaz should prefer the addional enhancements and CP instead of lower drop numbers and first turn most of the time.
Your thoughts?
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While i get that several people are outright angry about the point changes as it impacts their own army the most and it's always unfun to put less models on the table as before, now is not the time to discuss point changes in my oppinion.
We only have the Core Rules 3.0 and the point changes leaked, with some informations on warscroll battalions and so on.
We cant judge what implications missions and seconday objectives will have on future "generals handbook battle pack" games. We cant judge what Faction FAQs will bring to the factions itself.
We still work with incomplete information. For example: We could see a change of the KoS CA to affect himself again. We could see missions empower high speed or summons. We could see secondaries are easily obtainable by speed or summoning.
You guys are right that the AoS 3.0 points are nonsense under AoS 2.0 matched play. Lets wait and see if those points are still nonsense when FAQs, Missions and Secondaries for AoS 3.0 are out.
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11 hours ago, a74xhx said:
So, I guess dropping those netters is giving me about 0.5 extra hits per round, vs a harder to quantify bonus to survivability if they get into melee.
I wouldn't bother trying to maximize the very unsignificant damage shootas deal. Their job mainly is to get onto objectives. Any damage they deal is a bonus. The only reason you take shootas instead of stabbas is that you can camp objectives and still dish out some wounds.
Netters are a huge boost to melee survivability - alone the mention of netters in a unit of stabbas let opponents think twice to charge them as the tarpit risk is real. In addition netters have a "good" melee profile - they just outshine any other grot in a unit - for free.
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Grotbag Scuttlers is something which gets quoted in most newer publications - perfect excuse for making a shooty destruction force.
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New home with a new office for work and hobby stuff and plenty of isolation time really put some drive into my gloomspite gitz project.
After posting my finished Loonshrine a week or so ago heres my loonboss on giant cave squig
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Weird times... moving houses while being in a global pandemic was interessting for sure, but the good thing is that in my new place i've got a dedicated office which i use after work for my own hobby hole.
But not being able to get some furniture makes finding a place for hobby quite interessting. Nevertheless the lockdown got me quite some time to paint, so here is my first finished lockdown project, my desert themed loonshrine for my desert grotties!
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AoS 3.0 - Gloomspite GItz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
Huh, its 210 now. Still an auto include in my books.