[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

2 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

you buy them in a mob of 3 for a 20 pts discount. No need to count for more battleline as all units are now battleline

Also with points you can go stomper tribe with 9 solo it may suck but it’s an option. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

Also a 4 mega army is now legal as they have battleline.  Already been mentioned  stupid gargant. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

No more triple gate breaker lists. Can still run 1 of each and 3 solo if wanted so that’s good   and a small triumph bid  

[AoS 3 - how does your army fare?]

14 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Any idea why people would say this is the case? I thought S2D could be taken because it gained the keyword from the Warscroll, unless there's now an additional restriction?

Well the new AoS3 factions section says you only get allegiance abilities if all your units are picked from the same pitched battle profile excluding allies. So currently StD units get the Khorne keyword which satisfied AoS2 but for AoS3 they will need to be under Khorne pitched battle profile list. 

[AoS 3 - how does your army fare?]

Out of interest anyone seen a leak of Khorne pitched battle profiles?

I see people saying they can’t take StD which hurts but if those units are listed under Khorne new profiles then they still can. 
 

so is it a case of people assuming and extrapolation based on AoS2 profiles combined with new allegiance rules for AoS3 or have people seen evidence in the AoS3 profiles?

[AoS 3 New Rules Discussion]

2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

New article is up with some of the GHB stuff, the two new battalions aren't that great.

Alpha-beast pack is a step in the right direction for sure, as its got a somewhat unique effect, and these both actually have narrative, but they're still a significant step below battle regiment or an enhancement in terms of power.

Hunters could be good to throw your horde units into to stop them from being roared and still able to received inspiring so half don’t die then the other half run. 
 

EDIT as pointed out roar doesn’t last that long so not needed, just ignore   

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

Yeah agreed it’s a good time for SoB. I’m not really fussed that we don’t get much from the battalions as we don’t already. 
 

another potential fun moment would be stomper mancrushers hitting on 2+ rr1 and wounding on 2+ if you have the triumph vs hordes with +2 damage. Kind of overkill but it’s fun to calculate how much damage they can do. 

[AoS 3 New Rules Discussion]

Yeah double additional enhancements and double free CP. maybe a nice build for MSU style armies that can just screen and tag objectives if forced to play first. It’s probably what I will do with Khorne lists. I never liked gore pilgrims or tyrants of blood (just died to shooting anyway) so normally I play mass drop high wound count in AoS2. Now I can still do that and get a bunch of buffs. 
 

torc lizard lord

5+ shrug Bloodthirster

and a 3rd  melee character maybe another lizard lord with +1 damage or gorecleaver  

2 free CP 

throw in a few priests

seems like a nice setup in a faction that can now have 5 ways to heal a lizard lord and 4 for the Bloodthirster. 
 

also quite fluffy tanky khorne heroes that slay and slay whilst being rejuvenated. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

4 minutes ago, PlayerJ said:

Keep in mind anything/everything could change with the coming of GHB2021

Yeah I still half feel the GHB may limit duplication of battalions as it feels like this edition they’re trying to reduce duplication overall. Plus it would open up a lot more styles rather than race to reduce drops. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

We can 2 drop with 6 mancrushers and 2 megas as long as we run one of the units of mancrushers solo, which is the lowest most armies will be able to reasonably run and will probably be a common number. A few armies will still be able to one drop though.

Very true! I might be too caught up on just wanting to run 3 megas. I love all the buffs the big boys have now. A 2 - 6 build may end up being very strong. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

Yeah the 5+ shrug seems amazing on megas and would instantly be better than most items if not all currently in the book. Another small thing I noticed that helps SoB is you gain control of objectives after deployment. So Kraken Eater can kick turn 1 even going first. This could be very useful as essentially every army can choose to out drop SoB now bar SoB going for a 1 mega 9 giant build which probably isn’t great. 

In a taker tribe I might just go for sandals and shrug now. Becoming a wizard can be useful but a lot of opponents have bonuses to unbind so a single spell cast often is wasted. Plus now can always use a hero action for dispel.

Another interesting thought is using rally on units of 3 mancrushers when they lose 2 guys. Can be done both player turns yes it’s fishing for 6s but getting a whole mancrusher back probably makes it worthwhile on average (average around 50 odd points back). 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

For breaker I would probably go additional gatebreaker and have +1 vs heroes and wizards. This will give you a strong sniping game. 

If your going taker I would probably do the 6 mancrushers with the 3 solo and just try and play objectives more. 
 

overall though breaker is probably my favourite for AoS2 that could change in AoS3 as all tribes get easy access to +1 to hit. 

[AoS 3 New Rules Discussion]

14 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Extra cp are probably not purchaseable and I bet if horde discounts are going we'll see mancrushers move to 165 points (495 for 3).

Rumor made it sound like triumphs were one of the "enhancement" options so we'll see if they keep the free one around.

It will be very nice if SoB keep the option for solo mancrushers. There seem to be a lot of buffs for mega with AoS3. So playing aggressively with 3 mega whilst 3 solo mancrushers tag objectives could be a nice setup. 

[AoS 3 New Rules Discussion]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Tournament games are 2:30? It depends on how severe the points increase is and the actual impact it has on list building. It's would be equivalent to building a 1750 list at the moment which is highly restrictive for some armies and essentially forces standardisation of lists on those armies.

I saw someone pointing out earlier it may not have a huge difference to army size. A lot of top armies are running battalions for around 140 so if they lose around 200 - 300 points a big chunk of that will just be the battalion points. 
 

I guess just see how it plays out. I’m planning to go in hard on my SoB anyway in AoS3 and I doubt they will lose anything bar the 50 - 80 points you can have left over for endless spells, CP, triumph or solo mancrushers. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

36 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The stomper mega general not having access to the generic command abilities hurts, but Stomper-nine is a one drop list option. Mega-nine is as well but the warstomper variant is probably the best?

Yeah if your going for a 1 drop then probably warstomper is best still and just focus on buffing the mancrushers. As you don’t need to take the d3 command point trait with new rules in AoS3 you could either run +5 wounds or 3d6 charge on him.  In that build I would probably run the mantle for bravery 10 bubble and charge re roll which also works on himself (and makes hero healing better on him). Then just sit him deep in a free safety type role until he can engage safely. 
 

Just the hero abilities and new generic CA feel so strong is making me think about multiple mega even if playing stomper. Being able to have 2+ 2+ megas on a 3+ save is going to be interesting as it may actually make them competitive (although MW vulnerability is still the issue). 
 

I guess what else we need to see shaking out is how MSU will AoS3 be and will mancrushers be getting + damage often or not. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

As I want to be able to do all, builds I’m currently working on mancrushers 7-9 this morning. Was thinking though in AoS3 I don’t see using the stomper 9 build as the generic CA are so good and the hero abilities. 
 

It did get me thinking though maybe Stomper could become an alternative taker tribe. 2 or 3 mega one of whom can be 40 wounds (or 3d6 charge to get him where you want him) 3+ re roll with healing and then mancrushers who are better at blowing up screens. 2 or 3 drop depending on Mega count running 3 solo mancrushers would be nice (if points increases don’t stop that).
 

Thinking about it overalI  I probably prefer the subfaction traits / items etc over Taker tribe especially once you can increase armour save. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

3 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Technically the bonegrinder is a non-leader behemoth, so you could run mega + bonegrinder + 6 mancrushers in a regiment. Its not really as good as the other megas though

They do say technical is the best kind of correct but when it involves fielding a bonegrinder it’s probably not    FW writing the warscroll, ok he’s worse than a mega not a hero so he should cost more right……

[AoS 3 New Rules Discussion]

5 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

SOB get a lot better with the edition change. All out defense is HUGE on megas, they pick models out of coherency and the new rules make it easier, new monster & leader abilities, more CP and they get to lower their drops. They were already getting some results but they might actually be top tier going into the new edition. Plus they're shielded from point increases because of how the army is already pointed.

Indeed my stomp is really happy add in the hero and monster actions and new CA and have mega hitting and wounding 2+ with a 3+ save. They could increase points and make people go 2 mega 5 man crusher but I don’t think they will. Maybe just remove a few points so SoB don’t get solo mancrushers or endless spell etc. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

1 minute ago, PlayerJ said:

Wording would actually mean we have access to only Battle Regiment, as mancrushers lose behemoth title in SoB army for battleline.

One drop gargant armies!

True true true although only for mancrusher based lists. 3 mega lists will still be 3/4 depending on if the crushers are solo or not. We should beat any army not going double battle regiment (1 is too few slots) though still a nice place to be. 

[AoS 3 New Rules Discussion]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

We will have to see how that plays out. I don't think it's that clear cut. The benefits of opting out of the drop race entirely are quite good, and some armies don't particularly care about dictating who goes first. And if those armies exits, there is an incentive to maybe optimize drops a little bit to beat them. And if THOSE armies exits, there is incentive to lower drops just a little more... I think that makes it so that the chances we see will armies all along the drop range from 1 to "don't care" actually pretty good.

I don’t think we will see 1 drop as too few hero slots for most armies and only 5 troops is very limiting with new size rules. Apart from that agreed armies will be all over the spectrum. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

Yeah overall good stuff smaller unit sizes as well will restrict people smashing gargants as easily. The battalions seem bad for us though. Unless they bring in some alternative wording for battleline behemoths it appears SoB could only field “line breaker” and only lists running multiple units of mancrushers will have that available. Still no faction battalions in matched play is still a buff   

[Avengorii VLoZD List]

Seem like good ideas, just not sure a whole bunch of added support to an expensive model is the way to go in AoS 3 unless they bring in a generic MW save better than deaths 6+. We now have so many armies that can just overload MWs even soulblight with zombies and attack stacking + necromancer can do insane MW output. With AoS3 seemingly having tanky saves and easy way to add +1 save unless MW get reworked and or a generic save is introduced MWs are going to be the thing everyone builds for as their damage output to counteract all the 2+ and 1+ saves that will be running around. Kruleboyz, Lumineth, Fyreslayers, DoT, Soulblight, SCE are just a few of the armies shaping up to have incredible MW output. 
 

I think just a native VLoZD with AoS3 generic abilities and Avengorii buffs will be sufficient and doesn’t make a list that falls apart when the central component is removed. 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

a unit of 3 mancrushers can use 3 of the monstrous rampages a turn.

Indeed it’s really strong although sensibly they have limited to no duplication otherwise a stomper tribe would be doing 10 sets of charge MW and if wanted 10 sets of stomp MW. 
 

heroic actions are also really nice for SoB being able to dispel endless spells or gain buffs on models with are a 1/4 of the army. 
 

AoS3 is coming up millhouse

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

39 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Ooh wow, that's a very important and interesting rule!  I'll look into that so I can quote it properly when it comes up.  

I looked it up for you. As I actually referenced the wrong document it’s in the GHB commentary. 
 

 

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

15 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I got 3 games in this past weekend with my Breaker Tribe.  Ended up using the portcullis and +2 attacks trait.  The portcullis didn't work much, but the +2 attacks was excellent.

Beat out a big Nurgle Daemon Tallyband, and my general (with the lucky reroll hit Triumph) one-shotted his GUO.  It was Places of Arcane Power which is an awesome mission for the 3 MegaG armies   I used the Krakeneater to kick an objective back to his Gnarlmaw trees so they wouldn't generate Contagion Points....which he needed to summon in more Heralds to score the objectives.  Sniped out his Pusgoyle Lord early on.  Big win there.

Game 2 was Battle for the Pass vs Seraphon, with little heroes, 2x40 Saurus Warriors, some skinky units and 3 Salamanders.  It was a nailbiter but I didn't realize how nasty those Salamanders were and they got rid of my 1 Gatebreaker way too early.  Then in turn 4 they managed to get over to the other side and finish me off.  Those Saurus guys with all the buffs hit on 2s, with extra attacks, and sometimes did MW on 6s.  YIKES!  Nasty little lizards.  Good game.

Game 3 was Better Part of Valour, the WORST mission for SoBs.  That was Idoneth with 3 Eidolons and allied unit of like 40 Eternal Guard from Cities?  Had a 2+ save turn 1?!  Annoying.  And I still had to target them with the rocks as they were the closest unit; Idoneth thing I guess.  I foolishly decided to kick up the center objective, thinking then my Mancrushers can help kill all these puny things with clustered Megas.  But then his Eidolons just hopped up after I cleaned up the Eternal Guard and wailed on my Mancrushers.  They hung on til turn 4 I think.  Had I held them back and split up my Megas to go after his 3 Battlelines separately I think I coulda had it.  Oh well, another good tight game.  Missions make a difference!

Sounds good! Not that it mattered for your game but summoned units don’t get battlefield roles. As such summoned heralds can’t score in places of arcane power as it’s leader (battlefield role) needed not hero. It also comes up for all other summoned units and missions with bonus points for specific battlefield roles. Its in the main game FAQ if you need to confirm in terms of summoned units not getting battlefield roles. 
 

I find a lot of players using armies with summoning have no idea this rule exists.