Reuben Parker
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Posts posted by Reuben Parker
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On positives the battle tactics are actually very good and can help. Strategy was my main gripe as khorne are often weak there.
I think the judgment rule is good if you want to go judgement as your priests always have their one cast prayer needed for blood sacrifice / bronzed fury / blood boil. So throwing a bloodsecrator on it and using him is a viable option.
I do like the suggestion for a janky cogs tithe list for fun but it then calls into question the wording. Does it trigger as soon as your in the bubble or do you have to charge for it to trigger?
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18 hours ago, madmac said:
Right now both Vulkite options seem terribly flawed.
Shields have a 4+ save which is as good as it gets for Fyreslayers, but not really anything to brag about otherwise, especially now that Fyreslayers have lost all their save stacking options except the generic command ability. The big problem is that their damage output is so low that it might as well be zero, and they're not that tanky that it's worth paying 170 points for just a 4+ save and horrifically bad attack density.
Vulkites with Axes can get an acceptable number of attacks on the charge, which is not to say it's particularly a lot, again, compared to what most armies can do. 16 attacks is slightly above average for like a 5 man base unit, and low for a 10 man unit that isn't getting stiffed by coherency. 10 Thralls for example can easily put out 21 attacks, with Rend, and that's before sweeping blows kicks in to give them 31 attacks or damage 2. Now Thralls are super buff, but even a lot of bog standard mediocre CoS infantry units people don't play are putting out 21 attacks on average, without the charge conditional and probably with rend.
No rend is also a serious problem, mediocre attack density+no rend+squishy+slow is not a winning combination all in all.
TLDR, I don't think either type of Vulkite is good, but probably right now I'd lean double axes if I had to use one or the other.
You realize with 32mm bases a 10 man unit can still stand in a single line and keep coherency and all fight? If you stagger forward and back whilst touching bases they end up within 1” of 2 friendly models and even the staggered back models are within 1” of the opponents line.
so On charge with a runfather can be 4 attacks each with lodge possibly 2+2+ and rune for rend or MW they can be dangerous. The new book seems all about stacking and I think dual axe VB may end up being a very solid unit.
Also 8ppw and most likely a 6+ Ward isn’t actually that squishy.
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So unless I’m mistaking the reviews (and will confirm when have book) thrall blobs are back on the menu. Which I’m super happy about as I liked to play 30 man blobs back in 2nd edition.
now 2” reach and using a king and ritual I believe can constantly give them a 5+ ward and strikes first. Throw in some rally / soul render healing and they can both be an anvil and hammer.
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1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:
Ahoy! I have a game vs Lumineth this Thursday and am trying to decide which list to use. The guy is bringing Teclis, lord regent, 30 sentinel archers, 3x10 spear wardens. Adepticon practice (big fancy tournament).
I have used my Taker Tribe a few times with mixed results (Kraken general/sandals/intimidating, Gatey w Amulet of Destiny, Kraken w Manticore Venom, another Kraken....2 Bosses of the Stomp). Vs an army with 60 infantry, I'm kinda liking the 30 model count for objectives.
But there's alot to love about Gatebreakers, so what about Breaker Tribe-loathing to hit wizards better cuz aren't all those Lumineth units wizards? (Gatey general/5 extra wounds trait/amulet of destiny, Gatey w Portcullis, 1 Mancrusher, Kragnos). Is this just stupid? Kinda figured the 3D6" charge could come in handy, Kragnos might be able to shrug off all that Teclis can throw at him, or at least half
I've never faced Lumineth at all, and guess it's a matter of surviving the first round and then not failing charges and not failing in melee. Between the archers and Teclis I think they can easily drop a mega per turn. What say ye?!?! I really would love to spank these fancy pants aelves, as I always lost to Eldar back in the days of 40k.
If you want to list tech vs lumineth then stomper tribe may well be best. Gives access to the bravery 10 bubble which is huge vs their two different spells that can prevent actions vs a bravery test (especially as they also will be most likely debuff bravery) plus mancrushers with extra damage are good vs their infantry. I would probably go 2 stomper breaker and 3 solo mancrushers. General with 3d6 charge and mantle then second stomper with cestus.
If not that then breaker probably will be better than taker just for some extra burst damage.
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I noticed something small but possibly useful last night where mightier makes rightier only looks for friendly gargant / mega gargant but doesn’t specify that the model must have the allegiance ability.
I don’t know if I’m being stupid as I’ve not seen anyone do it but doesn’t that mean you can include a merc and he still counts for the increased models?
if it does work then I would nearly always take one eye over a regular stomper in my usual taker or breaker builds. As the loss of 1 cp first turn isn’t that great for his added defensive bubble.
If I’m completely missing something please let me know!
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On 9/4/2021 at 9:42 PM, PlasticCraic said:
I wrote up some Sons lists with the new WD rules that I think are quite competitive, one for each Tribe if you're interested:
https://plasticcraic.blog/2021/09/03/sons-of-behemat-white-dwarf-update-part-two-the-lists/
I like these had similar ideas myself but my main question is do I buy and paint a 4th mega just for my 9 mancrushers to all sit on the shelf. Although triple artifact 4 mega on paper looks like it probably is the strongest build now. I especially like the stomper list very similar to what I was thinking. The bravery 10 bubble shores up some key weaknesses and the buffed hero healing is a bonus.
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So looking at the mission pack I think savage gains which I’ll be playing for one round on Saturday can be pretty effectively “hacked” by the Kraken Eater. My plan going in which may change depending on opponent is simple.
kick my home objective straight forward and run all my dudes up in a blob in the middle. Auto run one 6 to steal their home objective. SoB will be scoring 6VP and you deny them scoring more than 3VP max and probably just 2VP as you just flood their home objective. It’s especially powerful as you only score 2VP no matter how many objectives you hold that are in no mans land.
unfortunately I think that’s the only objective in the current GHB that is really open to kick abuse. Although playing the other missions I’ve found kicking two objectives out of three close together and parking all your dudes between them is a pretty good plan on hold 2 hold more missions.
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10 hours ago, Bozgum said:
Hi everybody, I have a question concerning the Stomper Tribes Big Shouts:
So all the good stuff is unavailable for the General?
Shouldn't they have faqed the Big Shouts to match the new generic CA's? +1 to save/hit is far better than re-rolling 1's right? And especially the timing for when you want to give an ability is crucial ("at the start of xxx phase" versus "when you pick a unit to yyy")
Also the Realm CA from the battlepack pitched battles 2021 (Feral Roar) is unavailable to the general?
I ask because I have a 1000pts battle coming up and planned to field 1 WarstomperMG + 3 crushers...
Indeed none of the good stuff at 1k. This is why in a 2k stomper list your most likely going to want to field at least one extra mega. Then you can get say a 3 blob of mancrushers on 2+ rr1s maybe even 2+ to wound with a triumph and do some serious burst damage.
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5 minutes ago, gianmh said:
Anyone, can you think of the benefits of running 9 single crushers and a war stomper?
You murder screens without committing too many resources at once would seem to be the main benefit.
If you want to do that I would probably run the mantle for bravery 10 and re roll charge bubble and then 40 wounds on the stomper as you need him to live. If you are looking at 9 mancrushers which I currently am painting my last 3 so will run it at least once, then I would have at least one unit of 3 as a hammer. Plus gives a nice 20 point triumph bid for the possible +1 to wound.
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4 hours ago, Dejnar said:
What list did you play?
Playing.
Takerkraken with sandals and 5+ shrug
gatebreaker
warstomper
3 solo mancrushers
I’m thinking about for this weekend running the mancrushers in a single unit. It’s pretty apparent that on the majority of missions you only need to be on two objectives so I’m going to see if the bigger unit advantages I prefer to the negatives.
in general my impression of the new missions isn’t massively positive playing with SoB and my khorne so far. With most missions being 3 or 4 objectives if you can blob up on two and have easy to score tactics and strategy you don’t really need to do much else. To be clear I think the objectives and missions really favour SoB but they make the game a bit stagnant.
One game I played we diced “The Vice” and I just sat deep on my two home objectives whilst completing tactics until round 3 into round 4 it goes to one objective in the middle and I just moved all the gargants in. Immediately that mission would be more dynamic if they had the central objective from the start and the others still moved and disappear.
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Well got in two games of AoS3 and it’s been going as expected both wins pretty easily on objectives but not against the best lists. Got a small event at the weekend so will see how those games go. SoB seem so good at primary, secondary and tertiary scoring that it almost feels like unless your facing a list that can one shot a mega that SoB have a pretty easy to follow path to victory.
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8 hours ago, novakai said:
only thing i notice from the FAQ was a small buff to Gatebreaker
Page 78 – Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant, Smash Down Delete the ‘Smash Down’ column of this unit’s damage table, and change the rule to: ‘Add 1 to the damage inflicted by each successful attack made by this unit that targets a unit that is part of a garrison or is wholly on or within a terrain feature. In addition, add 1 to the roll when you carry out a Smash To Rubble monstrous rampage with this unit.’
Not a big deal but isn’t this really a nerf? As he has to use a monstrous action to destroy terrain now and only slightly more efficient than any other monster, previously he could just do it natively.
but all in all compared to most armies which had some real shakeups SoB are fairly much unchanged and looking super strong for AoS3.
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Just to be clear 3 solo mancrushers doesn’t really give up VP easier than 3 in a unit as the rule triggers off dead monster not the whole unit. Only thing it makes easier is the bring it down tactic but equally 3 solo is an easy way to get 3 VP from ferocious advance turn 1.
4 mega though does have a lot lower chance to bleed VP that’s for sure. Although I struggle to see a 4 mega build that I want. I don’t really want multiple Kraken, multiple breaker is best but then it only works with dual stomper and ideally I want one of each.
I do agree that with new missions a 3 blob of mancrushers has some interesting elements, gives some additional shooting and if you lose two statically rally is quite a good option.
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Just to check you know each monstrous action can only be carried out once per phase? Not sure if I’m misreading but it sounds like your expecting multiple d3 MW stomps.
That aside very similar obviously wait to see FAQ but right now I am leaning towards triple solo mancrusher in Taker tribe, one of each mega then shrug and sandals on the Kraken. I love the sandals really brings his damage output up more in line with other megas.
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11 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
I've been toying with this idea as well. However I don't think the giants feeble wizardry is reliable enough to warrant a Lifeswarm attempt. I want it to work but just don't think it will.
List a) seems the best. Kragnos at least can do the damage of a Gatebreaker reliably, just gotta be more choosy about targets. And I think he can still be 'behind terrain' for a cover save now and get a +1 to save or something, mitigating rend a bit on the way in. Taker Tribe is nice for the extra objective control, though Stomper Tribe could help you out by bum-rushing those Mancrushers in for an alpha charge plus beaucoup damage; plus the model tossing of the Warstomper
That sounds pretty fun actually. I'm gonna try that next time I play.
Unfortunately cover is capped at 10 wounds.
be interesting to see if Kragnos can work, kind of worried MW will just tear him up. Especially this edition which is introducing better saves bringing MW spam armies seems prudent. It feels like most of the recent armies can just give out MW for fun.
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5 hours ago, kozokus said:
Question as English is not my native language : How many objectives can you kick?
-1 maximum?
-X where X = number of Krakeneaters?
Thanks in advance.
1 maximum
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2 hours ago, Malakree said:
The issue being that you do your kills then your damage goes through. So if you do 10 damage and break coherency that 10 damage is going on what they lose to coherency.
Yeah it won’t always help, but does give some additional utility that may come up in the odd game.
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2 minutes ago, Drazhoath said:
Exactly what I thought BUT:
you grab models after pile in. When you attack and the other player is smart then he pick dead models this way he dont must be afraid of coherency🤔
Actually again a win for the warstomper as he grabs “in the combat phase” so you can potentially do more shenanigans with it. Break a unit coherency after attacks or pickup a last model to then allow you to activate later and pile in 3” into another unit.
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4 hours ago, thundering said:
I'm in the process of assembling Mega Gargants. I know obviously there's still a level of uncertainty owing to the new edition drop, but I was hoping to get some opinions on my list prior to me assembling things and finalizing configurations.
Taker Tribe
1x Kraken-eater General; Very Acquisitive - Glowy Lantern
1x Gatebreaker, Amulet of Destiny
1x Kraken-eater
1x WarstomperWhere I'm uncertain is the Warstomper. I was originally going to do 1 of each mega G just for variety's sake, but is there a compelling reason to use a Warstomper, especially in a 3.0 environment? Given the decline of hordes, the Warstomper's club seems to not have the same "oomf" or consistency it might've otherwise had, and Hurled Body has always seemed situational. The Kraken-Eater provides a lot of objective/scenario control by virtue of his ability to manipulate objectives and that seems useful at all times/in all matchups.
Should I just be going with 3x Kraken-eater 1x Gatebreaker? Due to the point changes, I cannot take a Kraken-eater and 2 Gatebreakers and still fit a 4th Mega G in the list itself. If I were to go 2x Gatebreaker, 1x Kraken-eater, I'd then only be able to put in a pair of smaller Gargants and end up with a significant points deficit that would render me quite sub-optimal on points.
Alternatively, I could do 2x Kraken-eaters, 1x Gatebreaker, and a Mancrusher Mob, but I'm not sure what a Mancrusher Mob does that's necessarily better than a Kraken-eater/Warstomper etc.
Any input or opinions would be appreciated.
I’m not really sure multiple Kraken is worth it. They tend to have the lowest average damage output (warstomper is variable) and only one per friendly hero phase can kick no matter how many you have. At full health a warstomper only needs to be in range of 6 to get full damage output or 1 and a monster. They also have potential to have full damage output even at 1 wound remaining so I do think one in a list with correct play should always be getting in good swings.
As such I think in taker one of each mega and 3 solo mancrushers will be really good. The 3 mega tank and fight while the smaller ones at counts as 15 are holding or stealing objectives.
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29 minutes ago, Injuryprone said:
Will all these changes make mega gargant mercenaries finally worth it?
I don’t think outside SoB they’re worth it on the whole. Inside SoB I do think you could maybe try a full defensive list whilst still having a lot of holding power from Taker tribe.
Kraken eater with -1 to hit aura
gatebreaker 5+ ward
warstomper merc for additional-1 aura
3 solo mancrushers.
now every mega has some form of additional defence. Is it an improvement, honestly not sure but it’s my best idea for including a merc.
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Yeah it’s shaping up to feel like Gargants will be very strong at all elements of new scoring and will only struggle if opponents prioritize killing the mancrushers and maybe a lone mega and then make it hard to score for only a couple of mega left.
I think going second turn 3 could be really key for SoB to remove an objective at the point in the game SoB are low on unit number.
also savy opponents may just leave some models on an objective a gargant is already on but not in combat . To stop it moving off to claim a second objective without losing the first.
All in all playing SoB in AoS3 is going to be very engaging and technical which is funny as by the fluff they’re very simple.
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29 minutes ago, Malakree said:
Taker tribe with the take 2 artefacts trait. Take the tribe artefact on the general and the time on tour 2nd garg. 2 wizard SoB!
It’s a fun meme idea but I can’t see anything that equals 5+ ward on a mega apart from possibly re roll saves or mantle in a stomper build. Obviously 5+ shrug is insane on a 35 wound model but just overall I think it’s a terrible decision by GW. It’s just flat better than most book items for most armies and will be everywhere similar to some of the old malign sorcery items.
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Yeah initially I’m leaning to taker tribe. Triple breaker used to be my fav but points changes and also now easy access to +1 to hit takes it down a peg.
Im thinking one of each mega. Kraken with sandals and ward. Triple solo. Play aggressively with the three mega (all 3 have good damage output now). Play objectives tag with the mancrushers. Avoid big straight up combats if possible and try to win on points.
my dream is that a day one faq says SoB can ignore the normal restrictions for sub commander role in battalions. If that was the case I would run stomper with 3 mega for re roll saves and ward artifacts in the same build and have a super tanky stomp. However I realize it’s just a pipe dream.
I do also want to see how a stomper tribe running mass mancrushers works in new edition. Warstomper +5 wounds and mantle 3 and 6 solo would probably be my first stab. Mantle actually helps sustainability by making heroic healing more efficient, also now don’t need to to run +d3 command trait. The blob of 3 would be for a hammer unit and also allows a triumph bid. I do feel losing out on the CA probably makes it not worthwhile but worth a shot.
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22 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:
Sons are all in all so much stronger this edition, so many buffs and abilities they got access to now
Also another stealth buff is the grand strategy where you have to have a battleline alive at end of game. As all units are now battleline just don’t get tabled.
Some of the single turn missions also look super easy for SoB and can get bonus for monsters but the opponents can get bonus point for each battle round a monster dies. So a bit of give and take but overall mission pack I think is better for SoB.
Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣
in Destruction
Posted · Edited by Reuben Parker
I also hoped for this. However if you check under the merc mega gargant wording it says they can never receive the benefits of allegiance abilities.
I still think possibly depending on list composition he could be included. For instance I sometimes like to play 3 mega 3 solo mancrushers in taker. In that instance he can help tank and a mancrusher behind can just hold the objective. Although most likely you would just prefer count as 20 or 30 instead of 5 and -1 to hit bubble.