dmorley21

The only two generic endless spells I own are Cogs and Purple Sun. I’m not complaining.

Where’d you pull that from? This is what I see:

Darn, missed both of those while reading it over!

They hinted they’re going to 6ish months for GHBs now. The Thondia stuff was supposed to release in January but was also supposed to be narrative, not January competitive. Since the Thondia stuff got so delayed… they just barely talked about it, which led to some confusion. Only the Incarnate is GHB legal from it all. We’ll see if it has points in the new GHB/online update. But, the Thondia stuff was meant to be narrative lore supplement while the GHB is the tournament supplement.

Reapers do get the +1 attack vs 5 or more. That’s when they get charged too. And if they go in the battalion where they get +1 damage… they could really put in some hurt. I think their stocks are down, but they’ll still have a place.

Cons for Reapers and Chainrasps IMO. Their ability to fight in two ranks is very neutered. Bladegheist and Harridan subfaction stocks through the roof though.

Suffered a pretty bad loss to Nurgle yesterday - a blightking spam list. I made some bad plays and dropped 2 of my first 3 battle tactics. Ran a list with 30 Reapers in a Death Star supported by a Guardian, Olynder, Torment, Chainghasts, and Spirit Hosts. Also had 5 Hexwraiths and 3*10 Bladegheists in Scarlet Doom. The Death Star was great. The Blades were terrible - definitely need to spam them if running them MSU IMO. The way I ran them they didn’t kill anything and just died. Overall though I played poorly.

If you’re not in the competitive NH Discord, there’s a couple people discussing their 4-1 results in the tournament section. Invite link: https://discord.gg/d2dQuWyU Also - I’m pumped about the new contrast paints! The Briar Queen one might be the basis of my new scheme.

Discussing Nighthaunt is going to be so different with the new book. A quick look at tournament results over the weekend: In addition to @Liquidsteel and his Scarlet Doom list go 3-2 at the Justice Series (Ian and Richie's old podcast was what really got me into AoS), we also saw: Matthew Gouldesbrough go 4-0-1 at a 29 player event running Scarlet Doom. He's a great AoS player. His list was: Dave Carter went 3-2 at the same event running an Emerald Host list: At the US Open in San Diego, Frank DeLoach took his Scarlet Doom list to a 4-1 finish: I'll stop posting lists at this point, but also at the San Diego U.S. Open, Kyle Claip took his Emerald Host to a 3-2 finish. At the Atlantic City Open, Tom Lyons took an Emerald Host to a 3-2 finish. At an RTT in Florida (US, Onslaught), Chris Miller to his Emerald Host to a 3-0 finish. In Utah (US) at an event called Wargames for Warriors, William Froehle took an Emerald Host to a 4-1 finish. That one featured 2 20 blocks of Reapers. There were also a lot of less than optimal results, but what we're seeing is that Nighthaunt can very much be competitive with the new book. We're also seeing primarily Scarlet Doom and Emerald Host taken. I think if Nurgle remain a powerhouse after the new GHB, that we'll see Quicksilver Dead start popping up more. All of the results I got were from Best Coast Pairings - I didn't look at TTO.

I’m traveling this weekend, but just wanted to chime in that this army is really strong at attrition. You just have to lean into it. But blocks of 30 GG/Chainrasp are able to anvil just about anything. This video might be worth a watch:

Nope. They cleaned it up so you only get the bodyguard save or the Ward save, not both.

My buddy who plays Sons won’t play them against new NH because he’s so sure that the ghosts will roll his giants. Gotta say that I agree… no reason you shouldn’t be able to lift a mega a turn. Offensive output is great on your turn when you get multi-charges. You want to fish for the -1 saves generally and the others will really depend on the combat and context. I’ve played against Fyreslayers, Beastclaw Raiders, Nighthaunt, and Daughters so far. Most of this is correct, but Sons can be played offensively as well. Their charges hurt with their mortals and if they bring Kragnos around they’re living for those charges. Grieving Legion would be an offensive Sons player’s worst nightmare.

Pretty sure this is the old book - haven’t watched it though. He also is the guy who took a Nagash NH list to the top 8 at LVO.

I view them as playing very differently honestly. Emerald Host allows you to take any list, and apply pressure as needed based on deployment. I ran it this past weekend due to the list I was running, without thinking it was worthwhile. Ended up being pretty good. My targets really differentiated during the games. I chose some big monsters in the first game against Beastclaw Raiders, and it helped chip on them so that I could more easily bring a few down. Still got wrecked, but that's another story. The second game I got four targets, and chose both units of Spirit Hosts and then Olynder and Kurdoss. Worked out really well for me. The final game I chose Big Morathi (she's a monster), the bow snakes, and a support hero. Helped me a bit, though still a loss. I'm planning to try Scarlet Doom next, and know I won't be able to choose any targets for the impact hits. I'll take what I'm given there. I will say I think Emerald Host wants you to bring a couple of other ways of dealing mortal wounds at a distance so that way you can kind of hit critical mass. I brought Olynder, Black Coach, and Terminexus and really hit critical mass in my mirror match where I was just clean wiping opposing ghosts off the table. Just picked him up with a gift certificate as he was the only interesting NH option the store had in stock. I plan on trying him out in conjunction with running a blob of 30 Reapers or 2 blobs of 20. Being able to teleport an anvil unit seems to be really beneficial. Side note - I know it was discussed earlier, but @Boggler - how do you do hidden content? Makes including lists a lot more aesthetically pleasing.

Attended a small RTT yesterday. I hadn't gotten in any practice games (apart from half a game in TTS) with the new book and I ended up running a less than optimized list as I'm in the process of redoing my army and this is what I primarily had in a relatively still complete state. My list was: Emerald Host Olynder (Spectral Tether) / Krulghast (General, Arcane Tome, Shademist) / Spirit Torment (Lightshard of the Harvest Moon) 30 Reapers / 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 3 Spirit Hosts / Black Coach (Soulreach Grasp) Terminexus The Reapers and Hexwraiths were in Hunters of the Heartland, while I also took Warlord. You had to use a different Grand Strategy every time, which is tough for the list I ran but I did manage to get each one. I ended up going 1-2 and don't remember enough for a turn-by-turn report, but here is a summary: Game 1 (Feral Foray) I played a Beastclaw Raiders monster trucks version of Ogor Mawtribes. I chose the NH specific Grand Strategy of A Soul to Claim, knowing his general would likely end up in combat with my blob of Reapers. He out dropped me and surprised me by taking the first turn. I had been expecting to be given the first turn and had put both units of my Hexwraiths in deep strike. He put all of his shooting into the Spirit Torment and lifted it - I had put the Spirit Hosts in range of Olynder elsewhere on the board. He crashed into the Black Coach with his general and put a good thumping on it and then crashed two monsters into my Reapers and thumped them. On my turn I teleported the Black Coach to grab one of his objectives and used that battle tactic and then sent everything into his general as that was my grand strategy. It was a mistake as Olynder died, though I did lift the general. I got the double and raided an objective and put some hurt on another monster, but it wasn't enough. We ended with 3 turns complete and talked out the rest, but he had at that point almost tabled me (I think I had a unit of 5 Hexwraiths and the Krulghast left). Mistakes were made on my part for sure and it was a bad matchup for my list. Game 2 (Veins of Ghur) Played another Emerald Host Nighthaunt list. This player had a less optimized list than me (Olynder/GoS/Spirt Torment/Kurdoss/Scriptor Mortis general/KoSoES/10 Bladegheists/10 Reapers/5 Craventhrone/5 Craventhrone/5 Hexwraiths/3 Spirit Hosts/3 Spirit Hosts). The Black Coach with support from Olynder and the Krulghast to level up just ended up laying waste to him. I kind of did a pincer from both flanks and just crushed him. I had him tabled by turn 3 and all three objectives fell on one side of the board. I had deepstruck my blob of 30 Reapers and all they did was lift a unit of Craventhrone Guard and camp on objectives. Game 3 (First Blood) Due to how badly I ran up the score in Game 2, I was actually 3rd at this point (it was only a 9 person tournament). Drew Morathi and the Bowsnakes. And the melee snakes. Yeesh, that book seems good is what I'll say. He gave me the first turn and I set up a unit of Hexwraiths to screen the center objective that I grabbed with my Reapers, and took the side objectives with a unit of Hexwraiths and the Black Coach. I actually had wanted to flank the Black Coach around a terrain piece and into his lines, but I failed a charge into his Witch Aelf screen. The bowsnakes double tapped into the Reapers, who actually held strong while the melee snakes got mind razored and charged into the Black Coach, who was out of range of my Krulghast. That thing got lifted so easily, I was shocked. Seeking vengeance, I sent my blob of 30 Reapers and Lady O into the melee snakes and lifted them in return. Both units of Hexwraiths had been cut down at this point by the Morathis and they started moving towards my Reapers while the bowsnakes double tapped them again and then charged. The Reapers held strong, but their output had been dropped and then they got charged by big Morathi, the snake hero, and little Morathi, while still fighting the bowsnakes and getting a double tap shot into them. Olynder got lifted at this point, but I had 3(6 thanks to the Spirit Torment) Reapers left that were able to retreat out and get me some points for an objective. I was in essence tabled by turn 4 apart from my Krulghast who had fled to the other side of the board (keeping a wizard alive was my GS this game) and we called it. Final Thoughts Like I said, I had a less than optimized list. But still, I have some thoughts: The Good: The Spirit Torment was great when it was used correctly. The 30 Reapers were just a powerful tool. It took a ton of damage and focus from my opponents to get through them. Lady Olynder did some work every game - even when she got deleted early, she had sniped a support ogor hero by Lifting the Veil. I didn't mention The Emerald Curse, but I rolled well for it and it did some work. I was impressed by it. Spirit Hosts annoyed me with how often they failed to bodyguard, but they were still great. The Bad: The Terminexus was great the one time I got it cast. I'd leave it at home in the future unless I had a better way of casting it. The Ugly: The Black Coach was the MVP of Game 2, and did nothing in the other games. I'm afraid that's typically how it will go. Just not a consistent, reliable piece. The Hexwraiths I misused but they were still always helpful. Their output is definitely not great anymore though. The Krulghast lands here. I thought he was an auto-take, but he does nothing in the mirror match and really did next to nothing against Daughters of Khaine. He helped in the first game, but not enough to change the outcome of anything. I definitely wouldn't take him without an arcane tome, as that at least gave him use every game. A lot was learned, and a lot of fun was had. I can't wait to get in some more games with the new ghosts.

Was at an RTT yesterday and every army I faced pretty much had army wide wards: Beastclaw Raiders, Nighthaunt, and Daughters of Khaine. My opponent before that was Fyreslayers, who also have wards. Add in Lumineth, Nurgle, Soulblight, OBR, Flesh-Eaters, Stormcast (Gardus, Bastian, Hammers of Sigmar)… Quicksilver seems good.

@EnixLHQ I think you miss a lot of nuance by calling NH lists hammer and anvil. While the basic strategy is simple, there’s a lot of similar or offshoot strategies. Generally, I’d argue only 2.0 Nagash and Big Drogg were true hammers for us. Maybe a unit of 20 Bladegheists in Scarlet Doom now. So it wasn’t and doesn’t remain a strategy for us. However, there are other reasons to create anvil style units: pinning enemy units, board control, dominating a more valuable objective, distraction pieces, Death Stars, etc. Heroes that support this type of build include: Guardian of Souls, Spirit Torment, Krulghast, Lady Olynder, Nagash. Shademist and Discorporate support this. I honestly don’t think there’s one right way to play Nighthaunt now… and that’s pretty cool.

Yeah, this was something mentioned by Dayton Obre on the Party at the Allpoints podcasts. He said that he had 90 Bladegheists and still barely had them all survive a game. His thought IIRC was to go for a block of 20 Grims. But he thinks if you run MSU, you gotta lean in heavily and go for maximum redundancy.

You can stack -1 to hit so that the opponent gets no bonus from a +1 to hit from something like all out attack.

Just catching up… Back to the Black Coach discussion, I’d echo that I’m disappointed by it. I think the laser is situational and it’s more of a teleporting anvil - the problem is there’s just so many better options for the points cost. It also just doesn’t sync with the army. It’s too pretty not to use on occasion, but I’m not impressed. Also, I’ll have to add the links to my blog post when I have time to sit down at a computer, but two podcasts dropped this week that talk about NH. Cubic Shenanigans goes warscroll by warscroll and is worth a listen. Party at the Allpoints goes into less detail, but also chats about them. So if you’re a podcast person, look into those.

Gotta agree. Between Discord, Reddit, and Facebook; I'm in a lot of Nighthaunt discussions but this is the format that I enjoy the most. Also, updated my blog with a few more reviews. The Warhammer Weekly one is definitely worth a listen/watch - I'd say Tom Lyons ended up as one of the best NH players with the previous battletome with his performance at Adepticon and now taking the old book to a 5-0 at Vault Wars.

Yep, I'm probably wrong then. For some reason I thought both the LE and the artefact required you to charge, so my bad. Can't wait to have the actual book in my hands.

I mean -1 to hit is the easiest to achieve. And the -1 to wound abilities are mainly on your turn - only the spell, Shademist, lasts during your opponent's turn. You're missing gamesmanship to some degree - depending on... well a lot actually (your target, terrain, etc.) it's possible to honeycomb your 32 mm units so that all 10 can be coherent and get into combat. Even if not, you're likely getting more than 5 models into combat - 7 is usually my minimum. But it takes a lot or practice and time, which does not make for a fast game. The other thing is the mortal wounds Bladegheists do in Scarlet Doom. That's what makes them so good. Still, your point remains that in actual gameplay, mainly when reinforced, Reapers will end up doing more damage due to more models being able to fight.

It's worth considering the replication of buffs and debuffs that we have available as an army. I feel like ones that appear multiple ways are likely ones that the rules writers planned on us taking advantage of - so it's something to keep in mind. -1 to Wound Rolls for Enemies Shademist - a spell that makes a single unit of yours -1 to wound when targeted and lasts until your next hero phase. Harridans - make an enemy unit -1 to wound on the charge Lord Executioner - make an enemy unit -1 to wound on the charge Pendant of the Fell Wind - an artefact that provides a 3" aura of -1 to wound rolls for enemies -1 to Hit Rolls Wave of Terror - on a 4-7, but effectively on a 4+ if you want the -1 to hit effect Grief-Stricken - Lady Olynder's warscroll spell that targets an enemy unit within 18". +1 to Hit Rolls All-Out Attack - a generic command point, that is freely issued by Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed and can be replicated by a Dreadblade Harrow Chainghasts - a unit that provides a wholly within 12" bubble of +1 to hit in melee as long as there's a Spirit Torment on the board Grief-Stricken - Lady Olynder's warscroll spell that targets an enemy unit within 18". 5+ Ward Saves Discorporate - a faction command ability that changes ward saves from a 6+ to a 5+ Seal of Shyish - a spell that grants a unit a 5+ ward save wholly within 12" until the next hero phase Nagash's Command Ability - adds 1 to ward rolls, effectively making generic NH ward rolls a 5+. Worth noting this can also work on the Lord Executioner, Lady Olynder, or the Black Coach to make them tankier.

Further to @EnixLHQ, it will be really interesting to see what each legion excels at playing. Scarlet Doom is the go to right now, because it produces mortals, is an all-comers subfaction, and honestly is the easiest subfaction to play. Emerald Host is the second most popular from what I have seen, and can do a little work against anyone. Generally, I think it's the weakest but is still good. Quicksilver is overlooked right now, but really good against Nurgle or Cities of Sigmar that feature Phoenix Guard/Phoenixes or maybe even other Nighthaunt lists. If Sylvaneth get wards from Wyldwoods or Overgrown terrain and another ward save faction joins the meta... I could see it having legs. Right now it's a bit too specific. Honestly though, I think Grieving Legion is hands down the best subfaction. It's just awful to play and to play against. But as someone who's run into Hosts Duplicitous Tzeentch a few times... that's crazy powerful. It's also one of the main reasons that Krondspine is getting so much attention. With our deployment shenanigans, you can just trap an entire army. I haven't seen anyone run it yet, and it'll be an absolute grind, but darn I think it's got legs.