[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

Why are Crypt Flayers point costed as if they still HAD a mortal wound attack while the Morbheg Knights are point costed as if they DIDN’T?

Seriously though I’m actually happy as part of team Blisterskin. We finally have Priests of The Light, PRAISE THE SUN! Goonhammer may not be too excited about the Abhorrant Gorewarden but the tactical movement shenanigans for Blisterskin have finally blossomed from the incomplete effort in the previous book.

Thank you GW Devs for not taking a baseball bat to the Abhorrant Archregeant. Have to agree with Goonhammer about him being an auto-include. This Noble Deeds stuff is janky and very much feels like a first draft. So anything to get that desperate regeneration this army needs is vital. Oddly I might be most excited about his synergy with the Gorewarden, far enemy units can be swiftly brought into the tranquil loving sunlight with none of that pesky Redeploy silliness.

It would be easy to go on but no one wants to read walls of text. XD

[6+ ward for death factions, do we think ours will change?]

Ossiarch Bonereapers still have the wholly within rules, only it is more lenient with unit leaders counting as sources. FEC might have gotten the omni-ward save because of how grossly outdated and nerfed the book was. So SBGL might get it at some point if the tourney rankings tank and sales drop off a cliff.

A strongly conditional situation for a core army feature in Death books while everyone else gets their’s for just showing up really rubs me the wrong way.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

12 hours ago, Honk said:

That would be an interesting thing… 6+ without, 5+ within , 4+ wholly within 🤣

 

Pitch this to the GW rules email. Devs totally need to see this. I’m dead serious.

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

17 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I built my Stalker kit as Immortis Guard and am wondering if they migh have merit now that they can be battleline.

The damage output is still going to hurt compared to Necroplolis Stalkers but these guys were a serious consideration when building the Feast of Bones box set (after fighting to get the instructions which were not getting posted on the internet). From my limited attempts they were terrible in AoS 2.  I think their value in AoS 3 as bodyguards has actually gone up with the damage creep some armies are getting.  Fun fact they are now fifteen points cheaper than Deathriders. One better save at the lose of three wounds.  That’s not bad considering they have the mighty Rend -2 in an edition that values it even more than before.

They’ll never be more efficient than the Mortek Guard for wounds/tank per point but they do have use for the tactically minded. I only have six but that seems to be more than enough considering every unit in OBR feels like a Sophie’s Choice. Can’t blame those who went MG and artillery.

With how things are having three of these guys next to Arkham is comforting to say the least. Although the lack of model regen still sucks.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

6 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I hope the other two Death armies also get their ward made unconditional. It functionally already is, anyway, but it would lighten the mental load.

Seconded, here is to hoping.

I don’t know about you Neil but if the Devs are actually realizing “mistakes were made” this is big news.  More so with Jervis gone and retired.  

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

In the past everyone I’ve played against generally used their Stalkers as a fire-and-forget assault unit. Taking them as a super Vet Scorer sounds great but the low unit count OBR is probably going to need to pair them with Mortek Guard cover or a Deathriders escort if these guys are pushing outwards. The amount of cat-&-mouse VP-tactics/force-comp that is spilling out is nuts.

Just consider this.. a three model Vet Stalker unit hits the far side of the enemy in a triangle formation with only one model barely  in contact. Meanwhile the regular battle unit makes as much contact as (un)humanly possible to tarp-pit pile-ins.

On 6/18/2022 at 8:12 AM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

*Snip*

Maybe a shift to fast stuff like Deathriders and Morghasts will be good, but that will make it hard to score on the points that require Galletian Veteran. Definitely a challenge.

*snip*

Nothing would make me happier. Those are my two favorite units.

If I could somehow get away with Deathriders (I own 31x of them), Morghasts, and Necropolis Stalkers in a Stalliarch Lords list I’d die happy. DIE HAPPY!  The model count on the table would certainly make it look elite. Although not really as elite based on warscrolls.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

On 6/16/2022 at 3:16 AM, Honk said:

Yes, that opens up some interesting options…

not sure how that balances the varghulf vs infernal (vs Gk), but when a (6 flayer) unit gets lit, you don’t really need two courtiers for regen 🤔

Some people were already of the mindset to only go GKoTG. They’ve just been thrown a major bone. If I didn’t like playing different force compositions every time I would consider it.

Aside with the threat of always strikes last from other large veteran mobs six Crypt Flayers might be the only option now. I may even deploy nine with my old fav of Blisterskin. Finally justification for having eighteen of these models in AoS 3.0.

But seriously unless there are major point hikes sometime this year I’ll pull a Blisterskin force of Two GKoTG and Three units of 6x Crypt Flayers for 1970 points. Lords of the Burning Sky’s CA could come in extra handy.  My regrets are no Feast Day and the force will be stuck at four drops if I want all the Flayers to be in the same battalion for +1D on other veterans.  What a crazy time to be playing this game…

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

On 6/11/2022 at 12:31 AM, Maddpainting said:

Heroic Action: Any FeC hero can do instead of other heroic actions, Roll 6 dice, for each 2+ return 1 slain serfs model to any unit within 10". For each 5+ return 1 slain knights model to any unit within 10"

I’m seriously stoked about this tidbit. Royals being able to return models is a big deal which breaks a serious design feature of the army. They didn’t even include the “wholly within” hate that is a signature move the Devs like to hit Death stuff with.

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

@Aerynn

Force List:

Spoiler

Hero

• Lady Orlynder w/ Spell: Seal of Shyish
• Krulghast Cruciator (General) w/Relic: Arcane Tome, Command Trait: Master of Magic, Spell: Soul Cage
• Reikenor the Grimhailer w/ Spell: Lifestealer
• Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed w/Relic: Pendant of the Fell Wind

Battleline

• 20x Chainwrasps
• 10x Chainwrasps
• 10x Grimghast Reapers
• 3x Spirit Host
• 3x Spirit Host

Other

• 10x Bladegheist Revenants
• 10x Bladegheist Revenants

Endless Spells

• 65 Soulsnare Shackles

Total 1990

Force Composition Notes:

Spoiler

1. KoSoES can be swapped out for Guardian of Souls & Burning Head Endless Spell.
2. Spirit Host can be swapped out for a Chainwrasp Unit if more damage is desired.
3. Hunter of the Heartlands for up to three infantry units BGs, GR.
4. Bladeghiests can be combined into one unit. Depends on what style of attrition or max-damage is preferred.

Strategy:

Spoiler

1. Small Chainwrasp unit as a sacrificial screen. A CP on an advance move might be needed.
2. Soulsnare Shackles to limit how many giants can charge in. Wizard needs to be on a flank.
3. The Grimhailer can hurt himself for a solid cast on Lifestealer and get it back. Also good for making sure a critical Endless Spell gets off.
4. All Hero’s need to fight (at some point) except the Krulghast Cruciator.

Things to keep in mind (because I forget them):

Spoiler

1. Some SoB players accidentally stack Saves with All Out Defense & Finest Hour. It is one or the other applied against cumulative Rend and Stun effects.
2. To Wound Rolls can’t be modified by more than +1/-1.

 

 

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Thank you Aeryenn. It is going to take time to write this up so the response won’t be until tonight (ET), probably really late.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

A warscroll update or two might be nice like the KO Admiral.

But seriously probably our own set of VP sources and a Core Battalion or two. Updated Path to Glory. Maybe if we’re lucky an Anvil of Apotheosis bonus. 

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

15 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

How do you deal with Giants?

I had a game against them and my army was crushed completely. He went first claiming 3 objectives. In my turn I managed to kill 3 man eaters and did basically nothing to his mega-gargants but do did he to my units. He got first again in the second battle round and destroyed 3 out of 4 of my units (not counting heroes and black coach). Basically each time his gargant attacked it was one unit dead on my side. The game was set. I could do nothing at this point. His gargants were all close to max health.

Other than the Black Coach what did you bring? What Nighthaunt do you own that could be brought?

So he had a three baby giant unit and three big ones?

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

5 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

This list, piloted by https://twitter.com/Oregano_Nate, went 24 to 16 against Idoneth Deepkin at the Slambo GT event in Texas. I'm still waiting to see streams uploaded for the other rounds, but Nate ended up placing 9th out of 91 with a 4/1 record!

Dam now I really want to know the specifics of the Deepkin fight. Still have Eel Force PTSD from 2nd edition.

Welp guess I’ll have to check out the 2hr+ podcast he’s in…

 

2 hours ago, Iksdee said:

I’m wondering if taking Awlrach + Spirit Hosts is the way to go. Its not a huge investment and opens up something fun.
snip

Rather interesting idea. I’d probably set him and his entourage with the intent of doing regular move-to-combat if it meant getting turn one combat in. He could even share Spirit Host body guards with other heroes. The only thing that would get me to peel him off is if combat options looked bad and a juicy opportunity presented itself. Sending him off early game for an objective doesn’t fit with my style of maximized damage output.

2 hours ago, Iksdee said:

If u take more units of Spirit Hosts u could pick one up and drop them on an objective, next turn do the same with a second unit etc. Dont know how good this will be in an actual game though but at least he has the power to delete some stuff if needed.

From Ferryman of the River Styx’s  to Undead Uber, sick. It is hard to imagine where a bunch of redeploys and giving up our turn charge advantages will win games but we never really know.

I vaguely recall something about Warhammer Weekly suggesting using Awlrach as the general. Bring a Dreadblade Harrow or two and doing a nutty massive redeploy. Or it might have been someplace else, there has been epic ideating ever since the leak happened.

I could totally see throwing a Turn 1 Wall-o-Hexwraiths into the enemy deployment zone boxing them in. Then right outside 9 inches a muder-ball of 30 Grimghast Reapers (or something) and an Awlrach the Drowner at the center. Two Dredblades on either side or sitting on mid-objectives (hard call with the option to grossly copy other even more useful CAs, like making all the Hexwraiths 5+ Ward). Attempt to throw a dance party on the opponent’s table side for as long as possible while gaining VPs.

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

Side note - I know it was discussed earlier, but @Boggler - how do you do hidden content? Makes including lists a lot more aesthetically pleasing. 

On bbc code it is generally [spoiler]CONTENT[/spolier] but this site is different.

Currently look for the “eyeball” on the bottom line of editing options to the right end.

Spoiler

Then you can do this or something else inside the space.

 

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

On 6/7/2022 at 8:20 AM, warhammernerd said:

Can Flesh Eater Courts use this ability in Morgaunt Subfaction, in conjunction with Archregent’s summon a ghoul unit? In other words, does the summoned unit benefit from the subfaction ability, and can a summonsed unit be brought back on 4+? Can’t find anything which says no?

Looks like you’ve already done your due diligence. When the Soulblight Grave Lords came out GW decided to quickly errata in the restrictions we see today. If GW hasn’t slipped a limit in the Errata/Designer-Cometary by now then don’t expect one before the next book or 4th edition.

 

 

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

9 hours ago, pikachoux said:

What do you think of awlrach and how can we use him? Its a nice model thats why I bought him. I just hope he can be useful.

Depends how you play. While the entire Nighthaunt army is pretty mobile some units do it better in a variety of ways.  Having one source of redeploy is generally a good thing so a Dreadblade Harrow, or Black Coach, or Awlrach the Drowner can be useful even just as a threat to swipe or presser objectives.  Personally I would not recommend going all-in on this sort of thing since it normally removes a unit(s) to be removed from combat for two or three turns which can decide the game. My preference is to keep this sort of thing as an option to fall back on if necessary while trying not to weaken the tradition combat formation.

I’m uncertain if Awlrach is worth the points as a fighter. It would have been really nice if he moved as fast as Hexwraiths. So he’s sort of stuck in an odd space of not enough damage, not enough movement, but has good movement and OK damage. Awlrach’s table foot-print is not that bad so he can work inside complicated maneuvers.  If the unit teleporting with him didn’t require The Drowner to issue the command and there wasn’t a command bubble limit I’d be more interested.

In short he’s OK and has potential if it is planned for and opportunity happens.  He is not an auto include and probably won’t be wrecking face but might if your dice are hot. He does dish damage better than most Nighthaunt characters.  Mine will see table use because playing a different list every game is more fun. Currently he is in eight pieces for sub-assembly-painting. This is a complicated model that pushes against Auto-CAD hell really well. But unlike others this one came out near perfect.

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

12 hours ago, Iksdee said:

I am wondering how good the Emerald Host really is vs the Scarlet Doom.

Snip

In supplement to the gameplay talk above there is the MathHammer component as well. In long running statistics you are looking to get four mortals every turn from Bladegheist Revenants charges to cleanly beat out Emerald Host, so basically twelve dice/models. So if magically sixty Bladegheist Revenants can charge turn one then Scarlet Doom is the overwhelming statistical winner.

Personally I like dropping Emerald Host on obnoxious targets (garrisoned Duradrin, backfield support, etc) and let it whittle down the unit while firepower is focused elsewhere. That or infantry with an impressive Attacks output. With Scarlet Doom I kinda WANT to proxy my Grimghasts Reapers as Bladegheist Revenants (with two or three Spirit Torments) against an all big-Giants army to see how it turns out.

Aside if anyone ever feels either Procession is letting them down these are using 1/3rd probabilities or 1d3s. They are a welcomed bonus but I try not to lean on them any more than Hexwraith charges or Orlynder’s veil.

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

5 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

A Scarlet Doom list came in 7th in a 47-player tournament 

6th place was OBR.. maybe the bonus VP system works.

Good hunting on finding that list. I’m dying to know if it was 10x or 20x BG units? Or more importantly how the general felt they performed at the size played.

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

21 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I plan on running Torments without Chainghasts. They are extremely expensive and horrendously fragile in groups of 2.

 

I keep mine (Chainghasts) lurking back for shooting (which they do so much better now) unless the situation calls for everyone to pile in. Haven’t tried running four in one group yet. Two groups of two along with two Spirits of Torment are interesting if going elite heavy. I’ve had opponents target the Chainghasts first instead of the Spirit Torment, which is funny as I’m returning over 60 points of models on the table every End Combat Pase.

What keeps them out of a list over here is if the character points start bumping against them. I won’t count them as part of the rank-n-file or battle-line.

Having played Orlynder in the last book, Myrmourn Banshees, or our current 160+ units, the expensive and fragile theme seems to be a thing. I haven’t done the 20x Grimghast Reaper yet but I certainly can respect the reasoning behind it (and intend on doing it myself at some point).

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

17 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Then you missed out on the ending. All in all it did well to highlight our new strengths even though they (admittedly) didn't know all the rules or what to focus on when filming. I think it's pretty valuable, especially from a new-to-the-army point of view.

Fair enough since that is not my position having played WFB in the 90s and most of AoS. If someone new they really should watch the Warhammer Weekly covering the new book. That and reading the posts here and everything is covered.

Although there are ‘interesting’ things to be found on FB and Redit.

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

3 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Another battle report.

https://youtu.be/2dGk7ndI8kI

Thank you for sharing EnixLHQ.

 I had to close it after the Nighthaunt player decided to bring a Spirit Torment and no Chainghasts. His force had no composition or thought, it made my head hurt. XD

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

1 hour ago, Rors said:

Didn't notice that. Thanks (Ranzou)

The Devs need some interesting worded it keep out the loop holes. In the case of an Arcane Bolt used at range (or Life Drain or Spirit Stealer) a successful Ward Save (if the unit has it) would stop the Deathsythe from getting the +1\+1.  In previous editions the Devs had to FAQ just when a wound was allocated to clear up old body guard rules in the Legions of Nagash book and the jumble of wound negation  questions.

Another fun fact since Arcane Bolt can be used during your opponent’s turn the Deathsythes could in theory get the +1\+1 in every fight with the right planning.

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

1 hour ago, Frowny said:

Sure, but our wizards aren't that great and if you are casting arcane Bolt you aren't casting anything else. Spectral lure is great, as is our spell lore.

I would advice against tossing all the screwdrivers out of your tool box just because the work plan only has nails.

 

Although I am curious behind the idea of the 320 point Hexwraith suicide screens. Is it supposed to stymie opponent VP gain while speeding yours up? Is the T2 charging supposed to be more devastating by a disrupted enemy formation? Is there a secret trick you need to share with the class?

The weird movement option on Hexwraiths has gotten me thinking. Normally in battles my first thought is most efficient use of damage so skipping combats is only done when it is a calculated move. With these guys zipping across the board I’ve been considering a bunch of scenarios where during deployment (or during flanking) they are a feint that draws the enemy out of position. My idea of a suicide screen would be to zip them between a suddenly vulnerable character and a hostile unit (that is if the regular 12” movement and an intercept charge isn’t possible).

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Just a little reminder Arcane Bolt happens at the top of any phase before the next Hero Phase. So there’s another means to trigger Deathsythe Harridans +1/+1.

[AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

3 hours ago, Rors said:

Snip

Spamming WoT might not be the best approach anyway though.. Likely more of a great but slightly random boon to have then something to try to intentionally stack to the heavens for competitive play.

Going to strongly agree that simply relying on 8+ charges is swingy and bound for disappointment.

But therin-lies-the-rub. Most of Nighthaunt boons (faction & warscroll) are on the charge so they don’t work during the opponents turn much less a double turn. Spooky Generals have to address hero/unit synergy’s and the best gambles on charge rolls unlike other armies that get things baked into their warscrolls, forgiving aura rules, or flat-out given in faction rules. Nighthaunt doesn’t get the easy self sufficient drop options, nor it shouldn’t because that is boring gameplay.

All of this recent tactics talk is great. Especially the closer table theory and the statistics get. The Deathsythe Harridans chatter is so much in-the-thick-of-it.