jackmcmahon
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Posts posted by jackmcmahon
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2 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:
I would agree with you if the rule was written differently, it is structured unfortunately as it is for a different affect. I would agree with you if it just said 'Each time a model from this unit finishes a charge move, roll a dice for each enemy unit that is within 1" of the model.' That would be your interpretation written in rule form.
The reality is though that they explicitly state that you Result = 'roll a dice for each enemy unit that is within 1" of a model from this unit' (surely no disagreement on this one) Trigger = 'after the model from this unit finishes a charge move'. And as we know from the next sentence you move each charger separately and total up the mortal wounds.
This comment is separate from the rest of conversation:
Narratively, your way would be funny because it's like a 5car pile up on highway. First car crashes in then second car hits first car which further pushes into wreckage etc etc. Just thought it was a funny visual I had that I'd share.
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3 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:
Could you elaborate on your point of disagreement, I'll be honest I'm not trying to be nitpicky, I just cant see where the disconnect is.
I disagree that RAW give enough information to make a judgement because "a" and "the" are not clarified enough. I read it as "units within 1" of the charging model after each model has charged" and you read it as "units with 1" of the unit after each model has charged" and the actual wording is somewhere in between. In these situations, I usually explain to opponent and we come to an agreement on how to play until FAQ comes.
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Just now, Rock Lobster said:
The method stated above is correct rules as written. There is no getting around the fact that you move each chariot individually and each time a chariot moves you add up the mortal wounds and they affect every unit within 1” of a model from this unit. Playing it any other way would be not playing the rules as written.
Disagree
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I don't think that's how 3xchariots works. In fact, I think the use of " a" and "the" specifically tie together. It says a near a model from this unit instead of the usual "this unit" because when you measure from "a model from this unit" you are measuring from "the" model that charged.
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6 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:
Yeah it heavily depends on the match up. The issue is against a unit like Plague Monks most HoS armies don't have a ton of tools to deal with them. Bestigors absolutely blend them but they're a bad match up for say a Keeper and so if you lose the Bestigors before you deal with the Monks you're left holding the bag. I've been able to get around this via summoning and using it to keep the monks from coming lose.
Good point. In most of my armies I've had one block of 30 something's to kill hoard. So you are right, bad trade vs monks. If ever found in this position any ideas on dealing with it? Best I can think of is have lash and hysterical spells in range to try to thin the herd.
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16 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:
What I mean to say is trading Bestigors for Clanrats is a bad trade. The points trade out in my favor but that's not necessarily the best way to evaluate if the trade was effective. Because what happens afterwards is I get charged by the Plague Monks behind the Clan Rats who are more offensive than Bestigors so effectively I'm trading one of my hammers for a screen. I've tended towards using the Contorted Epitome near the Bestigors to get a double chance at causing fight last to let them at least swing before the Monks go.
I think this brings up an interesting point that I do find to be an overall weakness of Hedonites of Slaanesh. We aren't often able to set up favorable trades on the table. Not say we're not an incredibly offensively potent army but savvy opponents can really dictate the pace and units that are traded. I think this is probably an intentional element of design because of the potency of HoS summoning.Agree with the trading screen for hammer thing. There are times when even losing bestigors after to (some hammer) can be a good trade for you, though. Had game last night where I took 10 seekers (240 points pretend 20 bestigors) and charged them into their death. They essentially only killed a screen, but if you are able to tie up multiple units for a turn you can set up a counter charge for your next turn. (I was playing vs ko, so they had next to no shooting on the following turn besides killing seekers). 24in deployment maps where you can't get your guys in where you want them are good for this.
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4 hours ago, Kramer said:
Point one and two, fully agree. Two is false and four contradicts it in my eyes. I do like the game, I love it. Still had games which I didn't have fun. Same goes for you apparently seeing your fourth point. You call it pretending to play, but you are playing. So according to point two you should be having fun.
You just define playing the game to your point of view. Which if perfectly fine, but the flip side of that argument is that other people are allowed to do that as well.The OP enjoys playing, but doesn't enjoy his games against that specific opponent. We don't have that opponents point of view but most likely he doesn't enjoy it fully as well. So nothing wrong to come to a middle ground where both have FUN playing the game.
But in your fourth point you make it about winning. Nobody is suggesting what you are writing, nobody is suggesting a purposefully bad army so people can lie to themselves, that's wholly your paradigm of having fun being exclusively tied to winning and losing. (again perfectly fine, but do realise that's not the 'truth' for everybody).
I reread my own post and realized it could be read as me meaning I only have when winning. Haha sorry, what I meant was that any game where you compete inherently has the goal of winning. How do you play chess? Move your pieces around to checkmate them and prevent the same to you. How do you play soccer? Kick the ball into the net and prevent the same to you. Etc. Descriptions of games in which you compete are written as "how do you win?" Because the object of the game (not the objective of inidividual players) is to win. Playing the game, then, is attempting to accomplish this objective. When you stop trying to win, you stop playing the game. I'm not saying I only have fun when I win, I'm saying to play the game you have to try. I am saying that usually people complaining about competitive players are just as competitive, because they went to the internet after losing.
2&4 not contradictory because trying to win is how you play the game. Not trying=not playing.
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3 minutes ago, Kramer said:
that was the whole point. It;s not about LOSiING it's about not having FUN. and while they often go hand in hand they are to massively different things.
If someone is not having fun because they don't like the game, that's fine. The majority of people don't think aos is fun.
If someone does like the game, they will have fun playing it.
If someone is so competitive that the only time they have fun is when they win, that's fine, too.
If that person wants me to stand around for hours pretending that I'm actually playing after building a purposefully bad army so they could lie to themselves about winning, ehhhh. No thanks.
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On 5/21/2019 at 3:11 AM, Kramer said:
If you are playing me KNOWING one of us won't have fun, you are That Guy.
Not playing because you won't both have fun seems to be the most reasonable solution and best way to keep a friendship.Idk guess our friend groups have different attitudes. If any of my friends said I'm not hanging out because I always lose at (whatever we are doing) they would be mocked endlessly in a loving way.
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so im watching a youtube video by HeyWoah right now and he is discussing choosing an army. He is going into a lot of different factors, but its on Tiers right now. An idea for all players to get fun games in, you could break up armies into tiers you agree on, then alternate game days into different tiers (if you have more than one army) Week 1 you could all play top tier armies, Week 2 do mid-tier armies then Week 3 do a cool model/test army. Then start from the top.
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If I play any game with my three year old daughter, the game itself is obviously not fun at all. It is only fun because she has a chubby three year old face smiling at me and laughing and I love her. Unfortunately, this does not apply to any of my age of sigmar opponents, so going out to buy another army that's intentionally bad to make them have a false sense of accomplishment would be a negative experience. This is of course, with matched play in mind. Your options are supposed to be matched and equal. In my opinion, it is the responsibility of the loser to improve rather than the winner to not try in order to grow as players. The winner should always be willing to help if asked and explain why they are performing well.
Narrative is another version of the game that is not necessarily supposed to be equal and is completely valid way to play.
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If you consider not playing with someone because they are better than you, you are That Guy. If you are not playing to win, it doesn't matter if you always lose. If you are playing to win, list building is an important part of the process.
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Contorted epitome, infernal enrapturess, malevolent maelstrom means there are 5 ways their spell does not go off. Fiends give -to cast, bloab ally gives -to cast, -to hit, and work well with chariots as his spell works similar to the goblet.
Everyone is looking for ways to gain depravity, so I've been trying to find ones that arent focused on that. You don't need to summon as much if their team is either dead or shut off from magic.
Might be a waste of points, but kairos can add a 6 to a mirror trigger. Probably not worth it, as most of the time it would add 1, 3 or 5 mortals.
Aqshy realm spells are awesome for the army, but that's true for most armies.
Giving contorted epitome ethereal and rerollable saves with cogs could be fun since it already stops most mortals. Probably makes their spell the heal. (Specifically for scenarios like 3places of arcane power if your army is lacking in a plan for those ones)
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9 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:
Are there any interesting combos we've been finding have potential? I haven't had the opportunity to test them yet, but I feel like a lot of the realm weapons that have an effect on a 6 to hit would synergize well with Euphoric Killers. I was eyeing an alpha strike with the Carving Blade and Into the Fray on a Godseekers Lord of Chaos for 4d6 auto-hitting auto-wounding damage with the reaper blade.
I have used lord of chaos with into the Fray in 3 or 4 games now. I have tried thermal rider, girdle and no artifact on him. Playing vs ignore rend opponent made it a little less exciting: I have done three damage with daemonized reaperblade so far. That being said, there's gonna be some games where their general is not 3+/4+ unrendable. Even without the damage, he's been good. Might consider having one in list without into the Fray. His turn to spawn ability can tie a unit up for an extra round, which can be invaluable for keeping your higher priority targets away from shooting for one round. (Bastiladons chew through daemons, but this guy tied one up all game). The change in base size when he transforms can also pull in nearby units to prevent a charge they were planning on another unit. (Ok evocators, blast my spawn instead of capturing that objective.). If you are taking seeker cavalcade you can probably achieve a similar effect for 100 pts instead of 140 by piling in to 2.9inches.
Another one is goblet of draining on bladebringer on exalted seeker chariot. When it damages a hero roll a d6. 5+ is d3 mortals. It can hit multiple heroes in hero phase, charge phase, start of combat, actual combat, and with symphoniac command trait, again in start of combat, then 3 of those 5 again in their turn. So 8 procs per battle round, possibly on multiple heroes. Let's say you average being near 1.5 heroes: 60 procs per game. That will never really happen as the heroes will die if you maximize its value, but it's just too fun to think about and not try.
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Just got a 1500 in vs seraphon. It was total commitment in aqshy. Here was my list:
2 Infernal enrapturess
Contorted Epitome w binding of Slaanesh
Bladebringer on exalted w goblet of draining
Lord of chaos general w into the Fray
30 dnette
10 dnette
5 hellstriders w claw
Malevolent maelstrom
Lord of chaos power attack got saved but he held down a bastiladons the whole game. Transforming into spawn has been really good and netted me at least 2 rounds of objectives in 2/3 games. The fact that the base size can change can make for some interesting wrenches in enemy plans.
Bladebringers are amazing. I'm going to keep running them over kos for a while.
Bastiladons can kill a unit of 30 dnettes like nothing.
Dnettes and bladebringers are awesome targets for buffs. If you are playing in realms, the spells could easily be your best choice of spell.
A lot of objectives captured from charge after summoning. Another reason I like the bladebringers over kos. They don't need to use command point to reach full potential.
Keeping at least one hero alive at all costs has been Paramount.
Ended up being a victory with me controlling my own two and the objective on far right.
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3 hours ago, Lhurgoyf said:
Hey I noticed the exploding 6s allegiance ability doesn't effect all attacks profiles equally. An attack that hits on 3s&4s and an attack that hits on 4s&3s normally both do .333 dmg per swing. However with the slaanesh buff the 3s&4s deals .416, and the 4s&3s attack deals .444. It isnt a huge difference, but it adds up over time.
Unfortunately most of the slaanesh book is on 4s to wound. Are there any good units out there with 3s to wound that can be a part of a Slaanesh army? I found Chaos Warriors with greatblades, and Chaos Knights with spears, but if anyone has other ideas I'd love help brainstorming. Alternately, any wizards with a +1 to wound buff would find their spell amplified by an allegiance to She who Thirsts. Are there any buffs like that in StD or BoC?
Chaos chosen are 3/3/-1/1. If they kill a model, they give StD units nearby reroll wounds. With all the attack last abilities around it might be safer than usual to have one 5man chosen to attack first followed up by the bigger unit rerolling wounds. Chosen also have the 6+ to wound is a mortal like daemonettes in revellers battalion. (Was looking for that effect specifically today because of exploding hits. Have not checked what BoC can go in battallion but I think they have exploding wounds somewhere)
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Just a clarification here: the model that is set up by an endless spell summon is also considered an endless spell itself, and was cast by a Slaanesh hero so if someone wanted to say they count until FAQ i wouldn't mind allowing it because that's what it says. I am personally playing that they don't in expectation of an FAQ. Future-proofing.
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1 hour ago, Grimrock said:
Built my keeper model last night, it's a really fantastic kit from a technical perspective. So many neat little joints and ways the pieces stick together. Same with the epitome, absolutely incredible model.
I'm not saying that the endless spell is a hero, but that it is cast by one. I looked at the depravity rules and they specifically say that mortal wounds caused to an enemy model by a SPELL cast by a slaanesh hero will generate depravity. Since an endless spell is a spell cast by the slaanesh hero it should generate depravity for all damage it causes to enemy models. I can understand the confusion because an endless spell both is and isn't a spell, so I agree that hopefully GW will FAQ it one way or another.
Ya, according to language, they are spells. What kind of spell? An endless spell. Unfortunately, rules aren't fully clarifying intent all the time, but are getting better since I restarted a few years ago. I think they treat spells and endless spells wording like wounds and mortal wounds. Something that says it stops wounds on a 4+ should stop mortals if you read it as written, but it doesn't so they put wounds or mortal wounds in the wording. Instead of "endless" being an adjective for "spells" think of it as "endless spells" being a one word noun that does not contain the word "spell". Oh, unless you are unbinding...or counting tzeentch spell ability...or other things. Ok ok some work to be done still.
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1 minute ago, Enoby said:
Ah yeah, good point. Gives a very interesting niche for Hellstriders - being a tie up unit for hordes.
Right. Fits well with an army that really doesn't want their heroes fighting big units, even if they can kill them. (Except maybe chaos lord on manticore with daggerfist and smouldering helm)
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3 hours ago, Enoby said:
Anyone tried the Seeker Cavalcade battalion? Seems like it could be interesting as it's super easy to make (with battleline included and seekers not being all that great). As we know from Devotee of Torment, a 6" pile in can be incredible (it would let seekers strike first out turn without a hero, and would let them retreat and pile in), and seekers are much better now. I'd like to give building it a go; would probably include a sybarite battalion too as it's very easy to make and often worth it.
Have not tried it, but another thing you can do with PIF6 is only pile in to 2.99" (because you didn't need to get within 1/2" from charge). This keeps them from getting more than 1-3 models attacking and forces them to either retreat or spend turn killing your 100 point unit with their unit.
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10 hours ago, carnith said:
Would the goblet give us depravity?
I'll have to re-read it when I go home, buy I believe it would not. The only way it would (sometimes) is if it says "that attack does an additional d3" then you would get it during combat and spells but still not abilities. I think it's just general wording of they suffer d3 mortals from the goblet, in which case no depravity ever from it, though. Still worth in my opinion though. Average of 2/3 mortals per proc. Can hit multiple heroes during multiple phases.
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I did the into the Fray thermal rider lord of chaos last week. Anecdotal, but: both wounds went through. 1 was saved. Rolled a 3 for my 2d6. He morphed into chaos spawn soon after. Don't care. I love it. I am keeping him as general, but might use my realm artifact for goblet of draining on bladebringer. Can proc it in hero, charge, start of combat, attacks. Lots of attempts at that extra d3.
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(loc: U.S. )I have 19 painted infernal enrapturesses. I'm ok with that number being closer to 6.
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Woah, an actual rumour. Order serpentis/scourge mounts?
Anybody else think it's funny that the thread based on conspiracy theories for aos was started on April 20?
AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted
If you have the exalted, it's just one car crashing in, but at start of combat he gets out of the car and yells at you for cutting him off. Road rage=d3