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CarkFish

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    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

    I like the archers, but they're tricky to assess: blissbarbs are good to have a ranged support battleline - a unit to sit at the back and plink away at. Blissbarbs seekers are better in nearly every way, except they are not battleline. This hurts a lot because we can be points stretched - I'd recommend taking blissbarbs on foot if you're lacking a battleline position, and blissbarbs on steed if you have your battleline filled out

    And yes, the seeker cavalcade is considered amazing for just this reason :) with a 6" pile in from 6" away, you can retreat and pile in, run and pile in, and strike first in your turn - as well as pile in to 2" away so you get your glaives in, but the opponent can't get as many in. Combos well with the KoS, who stops them piling in at all - making the slickblades immune for that turn

    He's definitely worth 400pts of tankiness (remember Lurid Haze gives him a potential 2+ save 5++ oversave) and that -1 to hit bubble helps a tonne. He's also not a monster, so benefits from look out sir and cover (and garasons). In addition, he can provide battleshock immunity with an easy spell and can mystic shield himself. Works well with Archaon, who can heal a tonne with Glutos's command ability. 

    Yes - you get both abilities :) the downside is you lose one of your command traits and your first artifact. 

    I think it will be an interesting list, though with Sigvald and Marauders you might be better suited to Lurid Haze for that early game teleport. In addition, as you'll be piling in more than charging with a good chunk of your army, the Faultless Blade ability won't work as often.

    A few other comments:

    It will increase your drops significantly, but you're on high drops anyway - I'd split your warriors into four groups of 5. The rerolling saves is nice, no doubt, but it fades so quickly I think having more board presence and double screens would help more.

    I'm struggling to read the number of slickblades you have - am I correct in saying 10 slickblades and 5 blissbarbs? I'm not sure if the Slickblades are separate, but I'd definitely put them in two separate units of 5 - again for board presence, but also to lessen the impact of battleshock.

    Hope this helps :)

    Thank you!!! ... Tess the slickbkades we're in 10 ... I'll break them out... With the KoS artifact they'll get a 9 inch pile in I think

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by CarkFish

    Looking to run this tonight .... It feels "right" .... Thoughts welcome


    ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Slaanesh) [1,990pts] ++

    + Leader [750pts] +

    Keeper of Secrets [340pts]: 0. Contest of Cruelty, 2. Monarch of Lies, 2. Pendant of Slaanesh, Arcane Bolt, Elegant Greatblade, General, Impaling Claws, Mystic Shield, Sinistrous Hand, Wound Tracker 

    Shardspeaker of Slaanesh [150pts]: 0. Contemptuous Brand, 3. Dark Delusions, Arcane Bolt, Haze Staff, Mystic Shield, Shadow-cloaked Claws

    Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh [260pts]: Shardslash

    + Battleline [520pts] +

    Chaos Marauders [160pts]: 20 Chaos Marauders [160pts], Barbarian Flails, Drummer, Icon Bearer, Slaanesh

    Chaos Warriors [180pts]: 2x 5 Chaos Warriors [180pts], Chaos Hand Weapons and Chaos Runeshields, Hornblower, Slaanesh, Standard Bearer

    Chaos Warriors [180pts]: 2x 5 Chaos Warriors [180pts], Chaos Hand Weapons and Chaos Runeshields, Hornblower, Slaanesh, Standard Bearer

    + Battalion [720pts] +

    Battalion: Seeker Cavalcade [720pts]
    . Blissbarb Seekers [180pts]: 5 Slickblade Seekers [180pts], Blissbarb Bow, High Tempter, Steed of Slaanesh's Poisoned Tongue, Sybarite Blade
    . Slickblade Seekers [400pts]: 2x 5 Slickblade Seekers [400pts], Slickblade Glaive, Steed of Slaanesh's Poisoned Tongue

    + Allegiance +

    Allegiance
    . Allegiance: Slaanesh
    . . Pretenders Host: Faultless Blades

    + Game Options +

    Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

    ++ Total: [1,990pts] ++

    Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Enoby said:

    I'll write up a bit more later, but one thing to keep in mind is the Wrath of the Everchosen subfactions :)

    These are Scarlet Cavalcade Godseekers), Faultless Blades (Pretenders), and Lurid Haze (Invaders). 

    I know Lurid Haze off by heart but the other two I'm a bit fuzzier on and my book is elsewhere right now.

    From memory:

    Scarlet Cavalcade (Godseekers): when you make a charge wholly(?) Within 12" of another Scarlet Cavalcade unit, you can roll for just one unit (using its bonusses) and take that roll for both; works well with copying marauders charge rule. I cannot remember the artifact or trait, or command ability 

    Faultless Blades (Pretenders): when you make a charge move, you gain +1 to hit against heroes. I think either the trait or artifact gives a 6" pile in, can't remember the command ability

    Lurid Haze: After deployment, before the first round, you take d3 units from your side of the board and set them up in the Haze. In your first movement phase, you can set them up anywhere on the board within 6" of the board edge and 9" away from enemy models. The command trait allows you to reroll runs wholly within 12" (or maybe it's within 6"?), and the and the artifact gives 1 extra wound. Finally, the command ability gives +1 to save wholly within 12". 

    I, and many others, love Lurid Haze. It combos well with Sigvald - send him (and a keeper) in enemy back lines; give him a 2+ save with a 4+ oversave, and he'll get loads of attacks on the charge with the ability to attack twice.

    I did notice the keepers Command ability and think.... This has play :)....

    A few questions ....

    How do you rate the archer units? .....

    The slickblade seekers look pretty awesome ... Would the battallion that gives me 6" pile in mean i could walk them up to 5" ... not charge... and still get to attack?

    The greedy dude on the wagon seems great .... but 400pts is an awful lot?

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Enoby said:

    Hey, welcome! 

    I think it's important to address the negatively. There are two main reasons that people's view on Slaanesh's ruleset is so poor, and this has been pushed by YouTube communities.

    First things first, the initial reveals of the rules were handled terribly. You may have noticed this exact with Kragnos and co too. GW released next to no information on their rules, which got people nervous. Then the points were leaked, and the points were high - sometimes very high. People began to wonder what buffs things like Hellstriders have gotten to justify +50 points, or they wondered how strong these obviously elite 150 point Painbringers would be. Then, again without GW input, the rules were leaked - because of massive expectations from the models looking amazing and the very high points costs, what were "pretty good" warscrolls (ignore Slaangors) looked much much worse in the heat of the moment. As is tradition, hot takes from everyone began to fly and so the zeitgeist of Slaanesh rules was "absolutely awful". Most of this was negative hype - almost like a crash to what was shaping up to be a fantastic release, that was incredibly mishandled by GW at the end. There was a lot of good in the book that was ignored in favour of examining the Slaangors and wondering what arcane formula produced the points.

    The second reason is that it's a very hard army to play. Not impossible, but there is no obvious win condition of a Slaanesh list - there is no "buff this unit through the roof and teleport down to kill their entire backline", nor are there any obvious synergies - and by that I mean, there is no "if you take this host, units with a move of 12" or more gain +1 damage on a charge". This disappointed people as synergy is fun, but it has its benefits (which I'll get to later), and also makes it hard to create a list as there is little to no handholding from the book. To add to this, as an army it's hard to get right; it has the speed to be "push up and kill" but it doesn't have the defense or the guaranteed offense that makes Alpha strike the viable option. But at the same time, it does not reward you holding back. It's a finesse army that relies on controlling the battlefield through your superior speed. Unfortunately the first two battle reports (MiniWarGaming and the Dark Artisen) were really poor; if you watched them you'd think Slaanesh was the worst army in the world. Truth is, both Slaanesh players didn't have a clue what they were doing - it was a very frustrating watch, but at the same time understandable. 

    So is this negativity justified? In my opinion, no - certainly not to this extent. Is the ruleset perfect? Also no, there could be a lot more to it. But when talking to other players, we're actually no worse off than their armies - yes we pale in comparison to Lumineth's massive bloat of rules (which I think is a very fun book but it seems like 200% more effort went into it than any other) but quality-wise I don't think we're anywhere near as bad as some would have you believe. The book has issues (mostly that I think more could have been changed from 2019 - making hosts either stronger or at least more meaningful), and some of the warscrolls look plain (but seriously, go look at pretty much any other warscrolls outside of Lumineth and I think our Warscrolls are actually pretty nice - certainly better than Slaves to Darkness or Blades of Khorne, who I would argue have incredibly disappointing warscrolls). 

    The true issue (again, ignoring the poor Slaangor) is points. Someone in the rules team had a strong fear of old Slaanesh, which is understandable, and so our points suffered preemptively for it. However, I think they just forgot we could take the really cheap Slaves to Darkness units. Thankfully points are also really easy to fix, and even with our bizarre points costings, we have some really nice units. Sigvald, Glutos, and Slickblades are pretty great at the moment. I personally love twinsouls for just how much damage they do. Painbringers are a few points drops away from being a great unit. 

    And, most importantly, this is the most fun book I've played in AoS. Previously I've played IronJawz, Blades of Khorne, Slaves to Darkness, and I used to play Death ages and ages ago. All of these armies had problems, and even the apparently "very well designed" Slaves to Darkness battletome felt constricting to play due to the auras and how meh the warscrolls (sans marauders) were. Like I mentioned before, the lack of "synergy" (e.g. getting specific buffs from specific things) has the advantage of opening up list building; for example, if a host did exist that gave +1 damage to fast units, then all lists with a lot of fast units in would be that host. If a model existed that gave a +1 attack aura, you'd bet that every list would have one. The lack of synergy encourages more diverse armies imo - and I think it's why people are still coming up with creative lists today. When you have synergy, the list has to bend around that and it often ends up as spamming one particular unit that benefits most from the synergy. Without it, you have to look at every unit as a tool and plan what you want to do; you won't do well if every unit is Slickblades (despite them being very good) because they lack the defense to hold a point, but similarly if you make an entire list out of Glutos and tonnes of chaos warriors, you'll find yourself whittled down without hurting your opponent. 

    In conclusion, the book suffered from a massive wave of negative hype that made a lot of people think it was the worst book ever, and so people went into the book with a very negative mindset. Now that's cleared a bit, I think we can look at the book more impartially. There are some issues (number 1 being points), and I'm sure everyone would have liked Lumineth level attention on the book, but it's actually a very fun battletome. It feels like building and playing a proper army that consists of multiple troop types, rather than falling back on the same synergies again and again.

    I'd recommend giving it a try, even just with proxies :) I'm sure you'd be able to get good advice from everyone here (and I'd be happy to chip in with any listbuilding advice). 

    Thank you so much for taking the time to write this..... I have a TTS game tonight, so I might throw a list together and see how it goes :) 

    • Thanks 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

    Hey there! I think the general consensus is that Slaanesh are actually in a pretty good place now rules-wise. Our biggest issue is that a lot of our stuff is over-pointed, but our rules are pretty flavourful and cool, and we have a lot of stuff that hits pretty hard (Slickblades, Fiends, Glutos, Twinsouls). We can also generate depravity points very quickly and so you'll find yourself summoning in a further 600-800 points' worth of stuff over the course of a battle. 

    It's no longer point-click-delete for Slaanesh -- you have to think your plays through carefully, as we're squishy and a mistake can be very costly. But it's a really fun army to play. 

    That's great thank you :) .... How well does it synergise with Slaves To Darkness?... I love my knights and warriors :)

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    18 minutes ago, Perturbato said:

    For me the only positive but not guaranted move inducted by the loss of faction battalion is the fact that we won't be looking after minimum drop anymore but i don't know how it works now in 40k

    40k Battallions dont affect drops at all ... they are just a way of organising a list in a manner that prevents spam to be fair... they do grant (or rather subtract now in 9th) command points though ... It's actually an extremely good system

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    14 minutes ago, Boingrot Bouncer said:

    Since they mentioned general battalions in the "8 great new stufff"-videos it feels like that is something that will become more important, and thus that faction batallions will be gone in matched play.

    Thanks guys... Personally I think this is probably a positive move... I find the battallions somewhat restrictive as they are.... Some are just so good that if you want to play the faction you literally have no choice unless you want to be beaten alot.... Im hoping more general battallions with standard buffs will let us be more creative with our list building

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    AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted

    On 5/9/2021 at 6:06 AM, jeremym said:

    You're in luck, the official gw release today explaining some of the information. 

    In short, faction specific battalions will no longer be supported in matched play. Instead being replaced with generalized battalions. These battalions are unknown at this time, but you can expect more information in the next few weeks. 

    Thats it, the whole deal. Don't count on building around change host and doing a 1 drop. 

    I missed this ... Are you able to link me to where they day battalions are gone?

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by CarkFish

    I finally managed to sit down and look at all this tonight... I'm going to preface this by saying that individually I think all the models are stunning...  Even kragnos 

    However .... This whole new destruction thing feels badly contrived, rushed and poorly executed ... Kragnos doesn't "belong" .... And it's a real shame.

    It feels like the design meeting went a bit like this:

    "Guys, destruction focus for 3.0! ... They need a huge centerpiece... Thoughts!?"

    "Well, Steve, Destruction all pretty much worship gorkamorka, how about a massive god scale model of him?"

    "Great idea Kevin! .... But, we don't have time to design that! .... Is there anything we could use now?"

    "Well, I guess I've got this weird centaur guy, he doesn't really fit with anything .... But if we scale him up 309% maybe no one will notice how half arsed it all is?

    "Kevin you've done it again!! .... Great work! ... Can you add some kinda orky totem thing to his base? ... Might help us sell this codswhollop to the fans?"

    "Leave it with me Steve!"

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    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, Bayul said:

    Kragnos is 760 points, Lord Kroak is 430 points.

    Someone posted a potato quality photo from the italian version of BR: Kragnos on Reddit.

    Kragnos is unplayable at 760pts .... I certainly wouldnt take him to a competitive event at that price

    Kragnos discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    59 minutes ago, Beliman said:

    Ouch, I thought that he was like Gotrek, you could still target him with "friendly unit" or "friendly monster" abilities/spells/prayers even if he didn't have the option to take that keywords and/or allegiance.

    That means that he can only use Triumphs, generic CAs and Mad Cap Shamman/Gordrakk abilities? That's waaaaaaaay worse than Gotrek.

    When people say Gotrek.... do they actually mean that wee dwarf fella.... or do they mean Gordrakk?

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    I'm pretty convinced at the moment, based on what we've seen.... and what/ how @Whitefang has responded to a few posts, that we are in fact looking at a few new units for greenskins, and that most (maybe all) greenskins will be rolled back into a single Battletome. .... Battletome greenskins / Battletome Orcs & Goblins. I also wouldn't be surprised if this included the Gloomspite Gitz.

    I'm not sure how i'd feel about this.... but... It's possible that a unified book will allow for more unique choices and flexibility, and that has to be a good thing right?

     

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by CarkFish

    20 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

    :D

    Given how AoS tends to twist every traditional concept (dwarfs the most mobile army in the game - Kharadrons, elves tough as rock equipped with hammers) maybe we will witness diplomatic orcs. Imagine that is their actual name instead of Kruel Boyz. Destruction Battletome: Diplomats and Scholars. On the front page an Orc wearing glasses, white wig and a gown.

    I think this has legs ..... 

    Before the battle starts, but after both players have chosen territories. The "Kruel Boyz" player may roll a D6, on a 4+ the "Kruel Boy" legal team have used lot of extremely complicated documentation and sent some very strongly worded letters, suggesting serious legal ramifications to the opposing players faction. Do not proceed with the game, The Kruel Boyz immediately win a major victory

    Might speed up a few tournaments 🤣

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    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    31 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

    Having read some of the darker parts of Warhammer's lore for greenskins, one would have to shudder at the thought of what an orc would have to do to earn the title of "cruel" from their fellows.

    Perhaps they deprive their foe of a meaningful fight? Relying instead on the anarchistic and barbaric methods of tactful diplomacy? Or, Gorkamorka forbid, they treat goblins with respect and offer them companionship on the same level as one of the boys? Stories abound of the Kruel boyz' horrifying methods of determining their leaders, electing them through "democratic processes" and base their skills not on size and brutality, but mental acuity and vision for,  I shudder to even type this out, a more peaceful tomorrow.

    Truly, even the Gods of Chaos fear what lies in the dank swamps and mires of the Mortal Realms...

    Best post this week, well done!! 😂😂🤣😂

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