Badlander86
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Posts posted by Badlander86
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I've been favoring Mhonar recently. The subfaction benefits aren't really anything much and there are limits on list building but Galeforce Stave is too good an artefact to pass up on especially in these smaller tables. If I can swing it, I run an Admiral as my Leader with Proclaimator Mask-Hailer for the free Command Point especially if I want that T1 sure-shot alpha with the Ironclad but its at least 2 Command Points (One for All out Attack, one more for the Re-roll 1s to Hit for the Ironclad) and the Ironclad Aethergold. I usually go with the Great Skyhook for the +2 charge with the Dealbreaker Ram in order to really kill something.
Spell in a bottle I feel isn't as good as before. Its a 180 points listbuilding nightmare sink for a spell that could easily get dispeled by numerous annoying Wizards like Teclis, Nagash and Morathi. Even a GUO could do it easily.
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In other news, Warscroll Builder on the Warhammer Community Page is updated. Looks alright but doesn't give indications of list-legality. Some weird stats like Endrinmaster on Dirigible having 6 wounds, etc. Also, Dagnai Holdenstock is still selectable as a Leader though he was not included in the GHB 2021 points list. Not sure how that works.
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50 minutes ago, stratigo said:
no where does flying transport say "refer back to the core rules"
Here's the relevant part "Units cannot join or leave this model’s garrison if it has made a move or flown high in the same phase (they can join or leave before it does so)."
So, as detailed by the warscroll, they can join or leave before the model moves or flies high in the same phase.
At any point in the movement phase then? As long as its before we do anything with the boat? And the rules for guys coming out of garrison are treated as having moved for the phase? The issue is the rules for garrison have been retroactively changed, as have triumphs, so what applies and what doesn't is up for debate. See the wordings for 2.0 and 3.0.
Not trying to be negative here but I have a lot of Rules Lawyers in my LGS who are going to use the word Garrison and link it to the Core Rules since Flying Transport does not give timing on the action. Rather than be called out as cheating, I'd best get opinions from people who know better.
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5 minutes ago, stratigo said:
so far, the reading is that the specific wording on our transports overrides the garrison core rules meaning we still do our own thing with garrisons.
But it would have been nice for a FAQ clarification
How would you declare it?
If say I do a Cunning Fleetmaster or Alpha Beast Pack "free" move that is before the start of the game and after both armies have set up, I move my Ironclad up 10", in the movement phase I declare my guys in the boat are getting out and can move out 6" within the boat, and the boat can move as per normal? Because I know some guys are going to defer to the Core Rules on this because Flying Transport does not mention how and when you can leave a Garrison since that was referenced from the previous Edition's Core Rules.
And let's not get started with the FAQ. After basically killing Warscroll battalions, instead of clarifying how one drops could work with Core Battalions, the FAQ still keeps Warscroll Battalions in the text to confuse players even more.
And how about Endrinworks? If I play Urbaz, but I don't want to be stuck with a Breath of Morgrim endrinwork, can I bring a Command Entourage to grant me another enhancement? Problem is, Endrinworks or Mount-traits don't fall under Enhancements so, its probably a no. Yet, none of this was addressed.
If it sound like I'm salty, maybe it is, but what gets my goat is the whole thing about AoS 3.0 being more clear in terms of rules. Maybe for 80% of other Battletomes, none of these issues matter because Garrison doesn't play a huge deal in their playstyle.
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I'm also at a loss with the new rules for leaving a Garrison. Based on what I read, a unit can only leave a garrison at the end of the movement phase but that's for garrison-specific rules. Add that to the restrictions of units joining or leaving a Flying Transport which states that you can't join or leave a Skyvessel if it has moved in the same phase which has not be errata'ed has left the guys in my shop to come to the conclusion that I can never unload my skyfarers unless I basically forfeit a move with my Skyvessel, making once flexible plays like There's only a Breeze basically redundant.
It's clear that Duardin are low on the list of priorities this edition, what with focus on Monsters and every flavor of Aelf, but this seems like them basically forcing us to play specific skyports like Barak Nar or Urbaz with heavy restrictions on listbuilding. I was never a great player before but right now, I can tell that its going to be harder to even hope for a win with all these very obvious un-synergistic rules and errata. They don't want people complaining about KO being top-tier. My only regret was not cheesing as hard as everyone else apparently was when KO was top-tier because now I feel I was being too nice.
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I'm struggling with the list building around these core battalions. It feels like everything is overcosted. I don't see how people can say Unleash Hell is anything special. I've had 3 interactions without only to kill 2-3 models while my attempts to kill off enemies just get completely undone by numerous ward saves and Rally. The table is ridiculously small that taking 2nd turn would leave you trailing in points. I'm not enjoying these restrictions.
I might not play the fixed skyports any more. Going to try my luck with a free Skyport to see if its worth the effort. Not getting my hopes up. We don't fair well in straight up trading, we don't have enough bodies if we bring boats, we dont have enough Firepower if we bring boats. Skyports give us very difficult tax items or traits that are situationally useful but otherwise are fairly redundant.
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On 6/18/2021 at 4:56 AM, Arzalyn said:
KO points from the GHB 2021 (no changes in unit size or roles):
Arkanauts 100
Frigate 250
Ironclad 490
Khemist 90
Navigator 95
Admiral 125
Thundrik 150
Brokk 255
Endrinmaster with Dirigible 190
Endrinmaster 105
Endrinriggers 120
Gunhauler 155
Thunderers 135
Skywardens 115
No points for Dagnai Holdenstock? Or does it fall under Cities of Sigmar?
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My gripe is how we are left with Aether-Gold almost being redundant due to it being limited to 10-man units, Heroes and Skyvessels. With the limitations on Reinforced units, you could at most have a 15-man Thunderer unit if you have them as Battleline in Barak Nar, but only a 9-man unit of Skyriggers if you have and Endrinmaster with Dirigible as your General which makes it impossible to have your Skyriggers have Aether-Gold with the current rules and unit load out, unless they change Skyriggers to run in units of 5 instead of 3 with a mark-up in points. Its very...messy and de-synergistic.
Also, the lost of the Re-roll saves Triumph sucks badly. I dunno about you guys but most opponents make a beeline to take out my Ironclad and for all the joys it is to see the Ironclad shoot, its not meant to tank. It goes down fairly easily to Mortal Wounds spamming or insane damage outputs. Having the re-roll all Saves triumph gave it more survivability. Don't give the whole "its all about positioning" BS. I've seen armies close the gap with just natural warscroll abilities or faction abilities. Maybe people just always meta-build against me. I dunno. Regardless, we are losing a lot with very little in return for now unless some major changes to Unit Warscrolls are in the works. One of the less savory players in my community joked it was about time GW shelved KO. I hope he's wrong.
Add that to a smaller table, we don't have room to maneuver, we'll be charged by most enemies in a single movement phase and I have a feeling we can't field as many ships as before. If the answer to the KO in tournaments issue (which to this day, is overblown beyond all proportions for several reasons I won't go into) is to just render most of their rules redundant, I'd say AoS 3.0 hit its mark.
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Woof. All that Monster Love. And news of a smaller table size for standard games. AoS 3.0 doesn't seem to be helping us except for changes to Look Out Sir being limited to Heroes with less than 10 wounds. Helps clarify the whole issue with some large hero models with no behemoth/monster keywords which helps in a small way.
Any hopes from you guys? Sounds like we may be getting a Duardin Battletome soon which sounds like a Cities of Sigmar/Legions of Nagash/Orruk Wartribes type soup battletome
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There is something about the recent sleuth of updates for KO in BR:Belakor that gives me an impression that they are about to do away with Fly High. Just my gut instinct. Fly High is often regarded as "broken" by some players (who play factions that can stack effects on effects with magic, natural stats, battalion benefits and so forth with almost no expiry but hey, they don't get Fly High) and to offset this, my guess is that they are giving increased movement benefits like in the Aether-Runners or the Navigator's new ability Ride The Storm so that KO still has some mobility. Take away Fly High, keep "breeze" around but as a free hero phase move, have Mhonar be the only ones that can deepstrike but only at the end of the Movement phase...etc. I wouldn't like it but its not likely they are going to release any new models to offset this.
That said, I should probably try and cheese this out as much as possible. Not sure if this has been asked but if I were to run Chromatic Cogs with Spell in a Bottle, An Ironclad with a Great Skyhook and 'Dealbreaker' as my endrinwork, I get a 4+ to the charge roll correct? Does that mean I also get to roll 4 more dice when doing the Dealbreaker damage?
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7 hours ago, Beliman said:
A new hero for KO comes from Warhammer Quest: Cursed City: Dagnai Holdenstock!
Bio from the Cursed City web:
The Trade-Commodore is known as a veteran entrepreneur with a knack for creative interpretation of the Kharadron Code. Seeing Ulfenkarn as a potential treasure trove, he searches the streets for the riches he so desperately desires.It seems that Cursed City has a Booklet of warscrolls (see spoiler tag: Warscroll Book), I hope that they are fun to play (no need to have competitive stats).
Sounds like a Barak Mhonar or Barak Urbaz type of shifty character which is great because we definitely need more KO characters that aren't just from Barak Nar. I love the title Trade-Commodore. In the stream they mention that the heroes use Holdenstock's ship to traverse to the Cursed City. Doubt this means he'll have a unique ship profile and model. Looking at his character design and the stats of existing WHQ characters like the Doomseeker, he'll likely be a souped up Arkanaut with good stats at best.
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I'm still a little confused here. So if say I have a unit of 20 Thunderers to dump out of an Ironclad in ranks of 2 or 3, the last rank can be deployed up to 6" from the base of my Ironclad and the first rank can be extended beyond the 6" as long as the deployment/disembark starts within 6" (not wholly within).
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Super amped on this. I've been hankering to paint up different models without the pressure to start an entire faction. Based on what I saw with Blackstone Fortress the amount of models (Heroes, Mobs, Bosses etc) is insane and I like the idea of a self-contained painting project. Plus skeletons are fun to paint without the pressure of painting hundreds of them.
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Garisson/Disembark rules clarification. As I read it, if my guys disembark from a Skyvessel, using the Garrison rules from the Core Rule Book, I can move them out wholly within 6" of the terrain feature/skyvessel with no other conditions such as being 3" away from enemy models etc correct?
The 3" within rule only applies for when a skyvessel is destroyed and we need to roll to see what survives and space to deploy. Am I interpreting this correctly? Trying to use Cunning Fleetmaster/Ebuillent Buoyancy Aid to really add 1st turn movement improvements to my Thunderers. I find a blob of 20 of them in Urbaz with a Khemist in tow really annoys enemies and is hard to chew through.
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13 minutes ago, Phasteon said:
Yes, as the rules state that you dont count towards holding objectives from inside the ship.
You NEED to stay outside the ship to hold.
Alternatively if you hitch a balloon hero (Brokk or Endrinmaster) and fly high, landing the skyvessel 1" away from the objective, you could land a hero/leader on the objective and this would count as a move, though whether it trumps the normal move requirement is questionable. Same for heros or units that could deepstrike or teleport since they essentially forfeit a normal move for it.
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5 hours ago, Talas said:
I just got a nice deal for the KO half of the Aether War box. If I only want to have around 2500 points of KO units, what would you recommend to get next? The battleforce looks really tempting and I can probably get it at preorder price, but I'm not sure about having three Gunhaulers and a named character...
Edit: I should add that I want this army to give a fun challenge to the opponent. Not fully competitive.
If you are going to play casually the Battleforce is actually a good supplement. 3 Gunhaulers gives you alternatives to Battleline if you run a certain subfaction. The 6 more Skyrigger models you get lets you double up on making 2 units of 6 Skyriggers (in whichever configuration, Skywarden or Endrinrigger) which is the sweet spot for Using Fly High with a the Hitchers rule. Brokk doesn't do much for the army unless you run Barak Nar (a subfaction in the KO book) but he is a nice page of stats and rules. Think about building a list of just Gunhaulers and Skyriggers that lets you jump all around the map to annoy your enemy if you'd like. Some armies may not be able to keep up but others may not even care.
Rules question for the older KO players. If I run the Dealbreaker Battle Ram on my Ironclad armed with a Great Skyhook which gives +2 to charge rolls, when I roll the dice for the effect of the Dealbreaker, do I add 2 more dice or just the number rolled?
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2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:
Yeah escort wing fits what I've picked up so far (Aether war I bought for the Tzeentch half, the warcry box, and the new battleforce) and I'd like to run some skywardens even if they aren't optimal. I've got 5 thunderers at the moment so I was considering sticking them into a gunhauler with the endrinwork.
I was planning on building 12 wardens and 3 riggers with what I've got so that'll fit nicely into sizes that can hitch rides.
I havent quite decided on how to finish off the list just yet though, i'll need something to put into the frigate(probably Arko?) but I need to figure out which port I want to run. Thryng would let me pull in some other dwarves and gives a fight on death, Urbaz would let my wardens take aether gold if I wanted and Zon buffs skywardens directly. I think I'm leaning towards Urbaz at the moment though.
If you havent' gotten a Frigate yet, the new Battleforce for KO seems to be enough to get you started with an Urbaz Grundstock Escort Wing, (if you already have Aether War, you'll up you Gunhauler count to 3 boats, enough for your battleline requirements) and Brokk the only named hero. Another 6 Skyrigger models will help you decide on how you want to build them. You may just lack Thunderers and the Aether Khemist. A set of the Warcry set gets you another 3 Skyriggers + 5 Thunderers. You could double up on that set if you need 10 Thunderers and your 3rd batch of 6 skyriggers but be warned, Thunderer models are restrictive in how they are built. The bits such as the hands, backpacks (with the tubes that connect to weapon options) are NOT interchangeable. So if you use Hand A for your Fumigator dude, you can't use the rifle from Model A because of how the backpack and hands are connected. I realized this much later as I got my 3 group of 5 Thunderers when I realized my bitz left over from the first 2 were not entirely usable which is a bit of a scam really. My suggestion is you build the special weapons first, getting 2 of each, then get another box of just Thunderers to give them rifles.
With your Endrinmaster with Dirigible, you already have an option to take all your balloon boys as battleline so you have some flexibility with Skyports. Arkanauts, I would try to get on clearance or deep discount (which is never it seems) because they really are expensive in terms of real world money and you dont get a lot out of them as unit aside to be chaff or slot fillers for battalions.
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7 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:
I'm new to KO and was wondering what loadouts people like on units. For skywardens 1x skyhook and max out pikes seems to be the best option. Thunderers looks like max out on aethercannons and decksweepers, and only bring the mortar and fumigator in large units. I've got no idea for riggers though, the pistols seem pretty good, and the saws are great but the long range guns seem good too
Hi, for Skywardens or any Skyrigger (Balloon boys) models, it would be prudent to run them in batches of 6 models which lets you run 2 types of special weapons from the 3 selections that you have. I am partial to the Drill Launcher as on a 6 you could deal 3 mortal wounds and the -3 Rend does help punch through most things. I usually run 2 Drill launchers and 4 Pikes/Pistols. 6 models also lets you use the Hitchers mechanic when your boats Fly High, as boats can only Hitch up to 7 Balloon models. So 6 Skyriggers plus a Balloon Hero is a normal loadout.
For Thunderers, 10 guys could run all Rifles but if you are expecting to use them to hold an objective or draw a charge, having 1 or 2 Fumigators to debuff the enemy, preferably with an Aether-Khemist next to them so the debuffs could potentially stack to -3 at some parts (If you run Emergency Vent Plates on the Aether Khemist).
Sounds like you are planning to run the Grundstock Escort Wing battalion
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25 minutes ago, Boar said:
I was initially of the same opinion as you, I even started writting in support of that for the very reasons you point to. Thing is Zilfin's move is at least inside battle round, and in this instance it's before any battlerounds.
Look for example at this excerpt from core rules:
This could be used to argue of difference between pre-battle ability and other's. Hence of inability to use latter pre-battle.
So I am not 100% on this, but after this fragment from AoS Rules I am leaning more towards this interpretation.
I think this is the safer interpretation. Still allows for an Endless Spell drop but not to get a full Alpha strike off with 6 Skyriggers and a Balloon hero. Was worth a shot.
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12 minutes ago, Beliman said:
Imo, yes, you can.
There is a FAQ that explicity say that you can "hitch" your balloon boys even if you use an hability to Fly High in another timing than the movement phase (ex.: Zilfin's footnote).
Nice. Then another clarification. If I have a three-drop list, an Iron Sky Command with 2 Gunhaulers, one of which is given the Transportation trait. When I drop my Iron Sky Command LAST, can I separate the drop of the Aether-Khemist into the transportation Gunhauler instead?
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27 minutes ago, stratigo said:
KO aren't an easy win army. If you don't build the list right and play that list well, you're in for a tough time.
Which is why losing feels bad. Because things like Meta Watch will give the impression that it is. So when you lose, not only does it give the opponent a bigger boost beating the "best army" in the game, but you feel dumb losing as the "best army" in the game.
It makes casual games all the spikier and the feel bads even worse.
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So I am still losing more than I win despite being an "OP" faction. In fact recorded my 4th straight loss yesterday against a 3 Great Unclean One Nurgle list and 2 blobs of 3 Plaguebearers and Belikor just shutting down my Ironclad. I basically wiped the board with all my ships intact but Blade's Edge favours a horde build and just couldn't outscore the opponent.
Regardless I am determined to keep brewing. Yesterday I found that a 30 man blob of Arkanauts in Urbaz is pretty decent. 43 pistol shots with rerolls trades up pretty well before including all the special weapons.
And I want to try more alternatives. I am looking at playing Cunning Fleetmaster as a General Trait to threat WLV without Zilfin but need to clarify something:
- Cunning Fleetmaster allows a "before the Round begins" move for either a Gunhauler or a Frigate. Could I hitch some Skyriggers along with the target ship? This could help make a bigger threat by relocating an entire strike force, forcing difficults decisions before T1 like blocking off Gnawhole , even if you don't play T1.
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I've been mixing it up with Fyreslayers and have been having fun if nothing else with Barak Thyrng. I have a question when it comes to Prayers though. Can an allied Fyreslayer priest or a Priest with the Barak Thyring keyword have access to Fyreslayer prayers or magmatic invocations. I like the idea of popping the runi Fyrewall to deny a charge or to inflict mortal wounds with the Flame-spitter on enemy hordes.
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1 hour ago, Mcthew said:
Maybe not necessary but almost a certainty judging by how GW applies 'balance', if you can call it that.
I reckon all it needs is a thematic cap on 'fly high.' Make it a 'chance' ability: say you can 'fly high' on a roll of 3+, or 2+ if there is an additional navigator on board or something. Introduces a further element of risk to tactics. Might not be a bad thing you know?
(That way you could always fly high even if you are overburdened or with 1 wound remaining - but you need to roll a 6 tho. If you really want to go for thematic, a fail means the boat is lost in the aether and cannot be redeployed on the table that turn and needs to roll again in the following turns or be considered 'slain.')
A cap on Fly High is as good as bringing KO back to its previous Battletome status. Put it bluntly, if other factions are able to deepstrike with no penalties, Fly High should not be a problem unless now other factions need to roll to see if their deepstrike is successful.
To me, while I'd be sad to lose the opportunity to cast WLV (after already ordering a set...), either changing Zilfin's one trick or limiting Spell in a Bottle's choices would be the obvious nerf. Again, with supposedly 25 events covered, factions like Lumineth not even made widely available and a pandemic, the "meta report" seems a little premature...but I'd be ready for a nerf regardless.
AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion
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Thanks for the correction. +1 to Hit is strictly better that re-roll ones but its always good to have the option. I'd use the free command point on Repel all boarders after the charge if I succeed. Which I dunno, my dice have pain very cruel to me lately.
As for more games, get ready to see a lot more Lumineth and DoK. Morathi is still a problem that is hard to deal with and the Rally's Ability can swing the game in lot of ways.