Forrix
-
Posts
666 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
2
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Store
Downloads
Blogs
Events
Posts posted by Forrix
-
-
15 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:
We also have KO, Mawtribes, and FEC that we’re debating what an anti-Tzeentch list for would look like...
I think KO could do pretty good against Tzeentch, Horrors aside, Tzeentch is very squishy so KO being able to apply rend -1 or -2 damage easily to flamers and characters is going to hurt. Remember they changed it so rend effects destiny dice and Tzeentch is almost entirely on 5+ or 6+ saves (not counting STD stuff but doesn't seem to be the issue right now). Despite people calling Changehost a 1 drop most of the competitive Changehost lists I've seen include a fatemaster and a Gaunt Summoner putting them at 3 drops (though with the FAQ changes Tzeentch might change the meta lists). If they are taking the Daemonfire Darkrift from STD they will need that GS to cast it btw.
KO could get down to a 1 to 2 drop with the Grunstock Escort Wing and Barak-Urbaz (which also gives extra gold for rerolls) or the Iron Sky. Taking the first turn would allow KO to fairly reliably kill the GS before he gets a chance to summon and get the drop on the flamers and support characters*. Obviously screening could be an issue but with Fly High and 18+ inch range on a lot of their stuff I still see KO doing a horrific amount of damage. The only major issue I see is producing the raw damage needed to take out Horrors since you'll still need to take objectives but that will depend on the scenario and hey, Horrors aren't auto-passing battleshock anymore without characters.
*Killing the fatemaster and exalted flamers will severely diminish flamers' damage against low model count units/characters but flamers are so squishy I'd just shoot them first anyways unless for some reason I can't get in range of the flamers but I could the fatemaster/exalted flamers.
-
3
-
-
9 minutes ago, Phasteon said:
You did not convince me that its comparable.
I give up.
-
Just now, Phasteon said:
And yet its probably unfun if your opponent tells you that your standard wizard cant unbind because he took a 6 and a 2 that suddenly turns into a 13.
I dont know what the designers intentions were but I say preventing this is a good thing for the game imo.
Nagash and Arkhan off the top of my head are two casters with a +3 to cast and a +2 to cast. Guess that doesn't apply to them?
Yes, you take a 380 point caster in a magic themed army and spend 2 of your 9 special resources and a command point to cast a spell you were almost certainly going to be able to cast anyways and your opponent's random 100 point something wizard can't unbind it.
-
6 minutes ago, Phasteon said:
Maybe they wanted to prevent DD with +1 to make it impossible to unbind when taking 5 and 6.
Or to make a 2 and a 6 from DD into a 13 via LoCs rules
Sometimes its the little things 🤷🏼♂️
Only impossible to unbind if you don't have positive modifiers to unbind or an auto-unbind ability. And a 2 and a 6 is still two out of your nine DD and that 2 could have been a soft inspiring presence.
-
2 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
I do speculate though, that the line is BS to deflect from the spectacular nature of the ****** of that rules implemention.
I kinda feel like it was them saying "Hey! We do playtest!" I really fail to see how stacking casting modifiers is really that powerful. Mass Conjuration largely seems worthless to me in its current iteration, by nature it only works on double casters and then you're using either 4 destiny dice or putting in on a LOC who doesn't really need anymore help casting. Maybe against a Nagash list packing that bucket of +3 unbinds but that's about it. Getting a +1 from the LOC command ability on top of DD is strong but really doesn't seem powerful to need a specific exemption. I just don't see the game breaking when a LOC or a GS gets +2 to cast with their DD at the low low cost of a command point every turn and 4 DD.
RuneBrush does make a good point about hit and wound rolls though. It does allow for Tzeentch to bypass negative hit/wound modifiers and feels both thematic and powerful. That's the first, in my eyes, well reasoned cause for the unmodifiable destiny dice change.
-
Archaon surrounded by a crowd of Greater Demons would be pretty lit....
-
4
-
-
32 minutes ago, Mr Spadge said:
Someone mentioned maggotkin. Is the blighting battallion that gives them rend not in favour any more? Cuz they should chew through just about any obr unit. Add drones/pusgoyles to get over the line and kill support stuff and they're golden... not seeing a big issue here...
The problem is the damage still isn't there. Blight cyst Blightkings are doing 5 wounds on average against Mortek Guard with their shield reroll discounting death saves and possible Harvester saves (math might be off a bit, just gave a unit of 10, 48 attacks to try and account for exploding 6s). If there is a Harvester your pretty much relying on your opponent failing to screen it or trying to kill it with spells that hard cast on 7 (+1 if your a GUO with a dagger!) against the OBR player's likely +2 or 3 unbinds. If you can't kill the Harvester then you're just screwed depending on the battleplan. Though most players I know don't actually take the Harvester since its kind of a "win more thing".
Drones aren't killing anything with substantial support that probably isn't going to be able to keep up with them and even then their only rend attack is hitting on 4s with 1 attack base on a model with a 50ish mm base. Pusgoyles just aren't killing anything.
You're also going to be lacking in bodies severely unless you packing a bunch of Plaguebearers but then those guys REALLY aren't killing anything and will still get cut to pieces to in melee.
Wrath of the Everchosen added a bunch of nice stuff to Nurgle but non of it fundamentally alters the equation. You playing an melee attrition army against another melee attrition army that has better melee damage, spell casting, unbinding, shooting, model recursion, and damage reduction. And roughly the same when it comes to model count and mobility (apples to oranges there but I'd say it even outs).
You could load up on STD and Clan Pestilins stuff but then you'll run into the question of why not just play STD or Skaventide.
-
2
-
-
40 minutes ago, Kasper said:
It requires a bit to figure out how to deal with an army after realising you have no chance in a close combat fight.
There are also armies that can't do much except in close combat. I've been wanting to take my Maggotkin for a spin with all the new stuff they've got recently but my local meta is extremely OBR heavy and there isn't anything in Maggotkin that looks to offer real solutions for the problems OBR present.
OBR strikes me as skew faction (as in it literally skews how you build lists not necessarily that it has an overwhelming win %) that serves as a gatekeeper to keep at lot of armies out of the competitive side of things. When building a list now I absolutely must have a way of dealing large amounts of rend attacks (preferably outside of the combat phase) and/or mortal wounds. With Nagash or Arkhan in seemingly every single list these methods either can't rely on spell casting or need to be able to get through a +2 or +3 unbind. As someone who has both Cities and Tzeentch it is completely doable (though catapults are still scary af) but a lot of other armies are going to be extremely limited in what they can bring or just outright unable to compete.
-
43 minutes ago, Customgrot said:
I played Fryslaters this weekend also and they are similarly tanky but they are actually slow, have very limited access to magic and unbinds compared to Nagash And Arachan. ALSO IF YOU KILL A FYRESLAYER IT ACTUALLY STAYS DEAD.
I’m aware Gloomspite are not a competitive choice and accepted that this was always going to be a up hill battle. Part of why I enjoy them so much, people enjoy playing against them, they have very obvious weaknesses which every army could exploit. I never felt I had to apologise to any of my opponent. However all bone reaper opponents felt the need to apologise to me multiple times for their army’s rules.
I've always felt like OBR were Fyreslayers +1 rather than Fyreslayers being stronger due to OBR's aforementioned spellcasting, ressing, and lets face it, HBG might hit harder than Mortek Guard fully buffed but if you're face planting either of those things you're losing.
As you admit Gloomspite aren't a competitive choice. Welcome to the uphill battle. Maybe try fanatics if Mortek Guard are giving you problems since they fight at the start of the combat phase (before MG get their rerolls in your turn)? GG are one of the worst armies at the moment, especially if you aren't playing the meta spell spam list. You're going to be struggling horribly and running into problems for which you won't have an answer. I've found online that people love to play the underdog faction but in real life, well every single Nighthaunt player in my area has quit or switched to a different army.
-
3 minutes ago, Eldarain said:
The bell is used most. Only GUO I've seen without it is in Thricefold because one already has it.
This. Also, I'll add that the only way I've found to make the Sword and Flail GUO come anywhere near worth his points is to put Ghyrstrike on his big sword.
-
4 hours ago, Kramer said:
On the other hand, my only complaint about the Ogor Mawtribes tome is that the Thundertusk has no role, not even if you want to play pure BCR. Make it a effective priest, then it's a choice between a wizard and the huskard. Make it a horde clearing monster, then it has a separate role. No matter the points drop it's not going to help much.
Ironically one of my complaints about the BCR side (aside from what you said about Thundertusks) is that the Huskard/Frostlord artifact table feels awful (seriously, how many lists do you see that take one?). Including a new artifact table could help certain factions out immensely and since its strictly an addition to the battletome it doesn't invalidate what's written in the tome. AKA a new player who picks up the Battletome doesn't find that nothing actually works like written in the book anymore but rather learns that there's a bunch of additional toys he can get to enhance his army. The same could be done with subfactions, which we're already seeing in Wrath of the Everchosen.
-
2 minutes ago, Drcrabs said:
Page 69 – Battle Traits, Masters of Destiny Change the final paragraph to: ‘Each Destiny Dice spent only allows you to replace a single dice roll. If you want to replace a 2D6 roll (such as a casting roll or charge roll), you must spend 2 Destiny Dice. In addition, any rolls that have been replaced (with the exception of save rolls and battleshock tests) count as unmodified rolls and cannot be re-rolled or modified further.
Yup, I said it before but if they had worded it as "In addition, any rolls that have been replaced count as unmodified rolls and cannot be re-rolled or (with the exception of save rolls and battleshock tests) modified further." I'd agree that they count as unmodified. As it is, I can't in good faith as a player, have an opponent show me that paragraph then look him in the eye and go "Nope, still count as unmodified because of they're not adding or subtracting to the dice roll." There is definitely logic to the counter-argument but at the end of the day you are trying to ignore a plainly written rule in a way that benefits you with an army that is already on the stronger side. That is too close to "That guy" land for me. Obviously, with all the arguments flying around a clarification would be a very good idea.
On a different note, and hopefully to steer the conversation away from the deadlock its currently in, would anybody have a problem with all DD counting as unmodified and being subject to re-rerolls and modifiers? The errata mentions that the developers were trying to stop problematic situations identified in play testing by making them unmodifiable but for the life of me I can't think of an interaction that would be that negative. Obviously there is Mastery of Magic but that would still involve 2 DD (with at least one of a higher value and a low value dice that could have been useful for battleshock). Not to mention that Lord of Changes casting is strong enough you probably wouldn't bother with using destiny dice anyways. Making them subject to rerolls would definitely nerf their power in certain circumstances but I feel like they'd still be a powerful and highly useful mechanic on the whole.
Personally, this whole DD mess, in my eyes, arises from the rules design team trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist and creating a whole mess of problems in the process. Regardless of the ruling on modified vs unmodified to the current debate I'd still describe DD as being a clunky and counter-intuitive mechanic due to them working differently depending on how they are used. Making them always count as unmodified but subject to rerolls and modifiers would have them act just like dice that were naturally rolled which seems to be the original idea behind the rule.
-
2
-
-
9 hours ago, Debello90 said:
" with the EXEPTION of save rolls and battelshock tests "
what is there to understand?
it is clearly written EXCEPTION therefore it does not activate the ability
Pretty much this. I doubt its RAI but RAW is very straightforward to me and the counter argument is convoluted enough that I would feel foolish trying to argue it with an opponent. Especially when Tzeentch is already a very strong army. I suppose it could be worthwhile to ask a TO for a ruling before a tournament but I'm planning on play it as not working until they FAQ the FAQ.
-
On 2/8/2020 at 4:59 AM, JPjr said:
The question I have here for people is if you think Horrors ‘slain’ via battleshock should split, would you be happy taking x amount of mortal wounds in the same situation from, say, a Nurgle unit that can deal out mortal wounds when models are ‘slain’, or any of the other units that have similar shenanigans.
Theres been rules like that around for a while, so what’s been the standard till now?
My group has always played that counts as slain = slain for abilities and models destroyed by battleshock trigger slain abilities. It worth mentioning due to the Blood warrior question awhile back that most abilities that trigger on slain specify a phase (typically combat) or that they be slain by an attack (typically melee).
-
On 2/3/2020 at 2:30 AM, Kaleb Daark said:
that mantic giant is a thing of beauty..
Yeah, I haven't really kept up with Mantic stuff but that is far better looking than what I normally associate them with, modelwise.
-
47 minutes ago, Realmhead said:
Do other units with abilities that trigger when models are slain (Blood Warriors do I think), trigger when they lose models to battle shock?
Blood Warriors and Vulkite Berzerkers (the ones I can think of off the top of my head) both specify combat phase only in their rules so no. Horrors of Tzeentch do not specify phase with their Split rules.
-
My interpretation is based on if an item A with the exception of situations B and C counts as D,E, or F then item A in situation B or C does not count as D,E, or F.
-
5 minutes ago, Karragon said:
But there's already a rule that qualifies what unmodified is. "Unmodified dice roll are referring to the result after any re-rerolls but before any modifiers are applied"
Then why would they specify that destiny dice count as unmodified in their rules?
-
1 minute ago, Grotruk said:
Yeah, Pretty sure the intention was destiny dice roll of 1 would work with pinks but the wording is kinda meh.
That was my thought too. If they just stated that destiny dice used for save rolls and battleshock can still be modified then there wouldn't be a problem.
-
3 minutes ago, Karragon said:
There's no argument for it. Zero. The errata is quite clear it says "If you spend a Destiny Dice to replace a battleshock test, the result of that Destiny Dice is modified by the number of models slain from that unit as normal." No where in there does it say that Destiny Dice count as being modified, it says they can be modified as normal.
That's like saying if you roll a 1 on the nice naturally it doesn't count as unmodified because it can be effected by number of models slain.
The actual quote from the errata "In addition, any rolls that have been replaced (with the exception of save rolls and battleshock tests) count as unmodified rolls and cannot be re-rerolled or modified further"
Pretty clear to me that its exempting save and battleshock tests from counting as unmodified rolls.
-
21 minutes ago, Grotruk said:
This is what is intented but the formulation isn't 100% clearto me because it's written "Destiny Dice count as unmodified rolls (except save rolls and battleshock rolls)"
Some players are going to mention that to say a Destiny dice of 1 can't return d6 pinks.
Yup, I reread the errata. They FUBAR'd their wording so DD count as modified for save or battleshock rolls (or at least there's a very strong argument that they do).
-
21 minutes ago, Darkhan said:
How do you guys calrify the Destiny Dice for pinks? Using a 1 gives back D6? Or you can't do that since destiny dice in BS phase counts as modified, where you need a unmodifed 1 to get back pink, meaning rolling a natural one.
My mates are destroying each other over this discussion at the moment😂
If you use a DD of 1 for battleshock you get the d6 pinks back (and auto-pass). They still count as unmodified its just that they can be modified if its a save roll or battleshock roll.
-
2
-
-
15 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
Gaunt summoner is the best faster or one of the best spells in the book. Arcane suggestion. It needs an 8 with a LoC around they can catch the +1 to cast buff. Guild of summoners would let the model pink up a second boost to casting. Making that spell realisticly castable.
-1 to hit and -1 to wound is really strong.
Don't forget the Blue Scribes for reroll casting rolls.
-
22 minutes ago, BillyOcean said:
Overall I'm very happy - this makes us less of bogeyman while maintaining a powerful and interesting book.
Agreed. I wish DD played smoother but I'm not against the end result power wise.
On the Gaunt Summoner I mostly find it odd that one of his summons is about 2x the value of his other summons. Plaguebearers, Bloodletters, and Daemonettes are all above 100 points but only a bit and generally want to be taken in big units and of course, don't benefit from the GS's locus.
I think Furies would make for an excellent summon except you just get so much raw value from the pinks and the GS has such a big target on his head you pretty much just want to hurry up and summon the 10 pinks. I'd really like that summoning option to be brought in line and a points cut to the GS if necessary. This is more of me commenting on how something plays thought then a major balance complaint.
I'm also a little sad that I now have no excuse not to run the Blue Scribes and a Fatemaster so I'll be either buying some finecast or converting. I'm liking these fatemaster conversions though. Might do something along the Ahriman lines as I don't have a spare disc on hand and it does look pretty good.
Tzeentch win Cancon and the GW GT Heat 1
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted · Edited by Forrix
I'm using him in an escalation league I'm in and think he's pretty good in low point games. He's a wizard with a good warscroll spell, hard hitting for his points cost, tanky enough he won't die easy to small stuff, and triggers Tzaangor's +1 wound. Just a good jack of all trades character. That said, I don't see him in any competitive 2K point games.