EccentricCircle
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Posts posted by EccentricCircle
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It would be more accurate to say AoS and 40k don't like to sell rules without models. In addition to 30k, necromunda often release profiles well ahead of the minis, Middle Earth print all the rules but rotate which models are available. So there are options.
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2 hours ago, Noserenda said:
To be fair last time i looked into some old plastics for making conversions, White Lions were well over £100 a box and Bret men at arms were headed that way, even with inflation adjusted prices they are still a saving
True. Oop minis are said to be a better investment than gold. I can well see GW wanting a piece of that action. I'm always dubious that the things priced insanely high on ebay etc actually sell for hundreds though. I'm sure I've seen some of the same. CHaos Dwarf listings not sell for years and years, while cheaper listings of the same thing come and go.
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They always claim their exorbitant prices are because they make premium models whatever that means. If they want us to buy 20 year old models then it follows the price should be proportionally lower. Otherwise their whole pricing system is clearly unjustified.
That won't happen. But we can dream.
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I think of the TK stuff, the Sphynxes, snake riders, and tomb guard are all basically fine. They don't look like modern models, but that's a case of art style and aesthetic more than actual quality. A few of the old resin kits are also really nice sculpts (Khalida, Apophis, the Shabti etc). They just don't have the look and feel which a lot of people are used to in their models nowadays.
The chariots and infantry though aren't great. Anything with those old skeleton horses isn't going to hold up. I love them dearly and still like to get my Tomb Kings on the table, but they don't hold up.I would buy more sphynxes and Shabti in a heartbeat if they came back, maybe more tomb guard, the rest I'd make do with what I've got. (Which to be fair is 2000 points of old models, not everyone will have them).
I've never collected Brets or O&G, so don't know if those are in a similar boat.
Really to properly update Tomb Kings they need:
1) Infantry kit: Builds Archers, Spearmen , and Swordsmen. Have scarab swarms on the same sprue ala necrons.2) Chariot add on sprue, make it so spearmen can slot into the chariots, they were essentially the same models anyway. Ditch the riders, they didn't have rideable horses in ancient Egypt anyway).
3) Ushabti: plastic kit with melee and ranged variants.
4) Hero kit. I'm envisioning a multi part kit like the witch hunters or battlemages, which can make loads of different characters in different combinations. Have a male and female body, and then options to equipthem as tomb king/queen, liche priest, necrotect etc.
5) Screaming Skull Catapult.
That's a lot. And likely isn't going to happen, but combined with enough of the old kits it would make a range.
Compare necromunda where each faction has an infantry kit, an upgrade sprue, an elite sprue, and they are now rolling out a vehicle kit for each of them. It's taken maybe five years to get to that though?
Edit: Of course if they do just want to bring back old models that don't quite hold up that would actually be fine on one condition
Make them cheap!
I'm not going to pay £40 for a box of old goblin wolf riders, but sell them to me for a tenner? Super, I'd got for that for sure.-
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11 hours ago, Beliman said:
Any words about Old Chaos Dwarfs?
That would be great, but no, not mentioned. The problem there is that Legion Azgorh are an entire army of pricy forge world resin. The old Chaos dwarves were 90s metal, older than even the skaven.
My bet is that we will see AoS chaos dwarfs, and when we do half the range will work for old world as with Lumineth, Soulblight, gloomspite etc.
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I'd have liked something a bit more concrete. On the one hand they claim to be doing layout on the book, but on the other no actual details on what releases will look like.
It's telling that they shared concept art for the big three squatted factions though. I guess we can take that as confirmation that they will at the very least do made to order for the old model s and maybe, just maybe give us something new!
i look forward to playing my beloved Tomb Kings again... Someday. Maybe I'll finally make the orcs and goblins army I was considering before the cull.
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36 minutes ago, EntMan said:
"Semi-regular" 🤣 About 1 a year?
To be fair regular just means they happen a set period apart. They didn't say they're frequent!
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I collect both seraphon and necrons. I don't think its either. Maybe Votann or something new?
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The chameleons look great.
For dwarves, i really want them to get the Lumineth or soulblight treatment. Classic style units on one hand and crazy gholemkin, warmachines and whatever other aos weirdness they want on the other. Let them take KO and FS units, but keep those factions too. It would be perfect.
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I see lots of people panicking that a new 40k edition means next year will be a big year for 40k and we won't see much AoS. Except that isn't how it works. As we've seen with AoS 3, they will put out the new starter armies, and then most likely crank out codices with a few heroes for a year to get all the easy stuff up to scratch. Between that and the pre 10e narrative books it will likely be a quiet year for 40k and the perfect time for big aos releases.
That is literally what's just happened the other way around, and it's been the pattern for the last two or so edition cycles.
Our time will come.
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Why are we assuming that seraphon will be in the next box? Narrative wise it would make much more sense for them to be last when the explorers actually reach tje crashed ship itself!
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9 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
This sentiment is right, I think: GW are the biggest tabletop wargaming company and should definitely improve their processes so that something like this does not happen.
But I think we also need to recognize that this swift downloadable rule fix before the army is fully out is still a good response. We all want blunders like this to preferably not happen at all in the future, but actually putting out a fix rapidly instead of waiting 3 months for the next scheduled balance data slate is by no means the worst they could have handled this.
My concern is this. At the moment Votan is in je news, everyone has heard they are over powered. We know if we want to play them we need that errata.
Except that a lot of people don't follow the news that closely. Casual players won't know to look for corrected rules, and in six months to a year's time, as the release controversy fades, that will become more and more of an issue.
that said i've yet to read these rules so don't know how bad it really is or whether this is a storm in a teacup. Casual players may not find over powered rules as much of an issue since player skill puts far bigger error bars on army power level than most competitive players realise. However, it could easily swing the other way and make balancing casual games even harder.
Now from an environmental standpoint I don't think they should just pulp thousands of books, but they do need to be more careful about what they release.
it's good to know that aos is in a better place at the moment than 40k. Lets just hope that lasts.
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1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:
so people preordered an obsolete book is what this is saying... why buy any of their books??
Agreed. I'm dismayed by how many people are saying "well done for owning thr mistake and fixing it with errata" . We shouldn't need errata, the books should be good in the first place. I hate that gw have bred a culture where we expect to buy unbalanced books and aplaude them when they change the rules two weeks later. They will sell this book for at least a couple of years, faults and all.
If they really can't playtest things robustly without community input then they should sposhing well switch to open playtesting. Release every book's rules six months before it goes to print. Let everyone play it, and then release a fine tuned version when it's ready. Plenty of other companies do just that and people still buy the books. If anything its free marketing.
If they are serious about fixing this book then they should reprint it. Delay the release and let everyone have the actual rules in their book and not tucked in the back on a bit of paper.
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10 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:
I mean there’s an obvious similarity(I still see this as just placeholder art) but they do look like they’re in more baggy modernized clothes with knee pads and upper body plates & pauldrons strapped on compared to the old pajamas & classic historic flair.
In comparison they look closer to DnD/Pathfinder guards.
Yeah, that’s the “peasant” caps I meant. The simple leather caps just meant to give the head the barest of cover like the Gunmaster’s did:
But you can see how basic that is(and thus the peasant cap)Guy on the bottom is rocking a leather helmet with ear guard cross patterns invented in the 1900’s British football helmets.
Could just be pure fantasy style without that actual context but it does look more advanced.Can’t say I do. There’s Bloodbowl and in several years the World-that-Was specialist game for that.
Age of Sigmar needs something more “Lumineth” unique and closer to the Belakor Legionnaires for it’s average uniforms to distinguish itself from out under the dead world’s shadow.
Well we agree here. Certainly in better uniforms that are fully sealed up from boots to gloves to survive a sentient-death jungle than the long gone imperial fools that tried Lustria.
Is that a current Lustria sourcebook for wfrp, an upcoming one, or a mock up? I've not seen it on the C7 websites when planing what to get.
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I'm now imagining the look on the 40K fans faces if we get an Age of Sigmar space battle game pitting Slann temple ships against silver towers, using the Battlefleet Gothic rules...
Before they get updated Battlefleet Gothic!
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Maybe they'll finally do Fyreslayers...
Or not.
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I for one welcome our new space dwarf overlords.
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10 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Honestly, the biggest obstacle the Griffon and Hurricanum kits face is that they have "Karl Franz" written on them. Otherwise they fit AoS better than most.
I mean the Griffon doesn't just have the words "Karl Franz" on it, it's also being ridden by the man himself!
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11 hours ago, Beliman said:
Arbitor Ian has a video about the evolution of war40k from first to 9th edition. It's interesting because some concepts from the begining were changed over the years, and one of them is exactly what we are talking about.
From an edition with complicated rules, closer to a RPG than a wargame, to an edition that had 4 roles (vehicles, cavalry, bikes and infantry), and then adding type of units to improve the whole feeling ot the game (until it was too much and they needed a reset... again).
I'm not sure what's the most optimized number of unit-types for a wargame like AoS, but I would like something for elites, and maybe for God-like creatures. It's not the same a Behemoth of 150p than a Behemoth that costs 500p, and both counts for the same slot.
Btw, talking about Monsters, Behemoths, subfactions, factions, etc... I think that it's good to have a control on how many labels are we dealing with. I don't like to add muliple ones like Horus Heresy: one unit can have up to 6 layers of rules (the main one being his rules, the last one being his Rites of War), and even if they are easy to remember... 6 LAYERS??? REALLY?
Another thing to take in mind is how "hero hammer" AoS seems to be (big names moving the story by themself), but instead, we don't have mechanics that match the theme. We can't even have our own and custom Heroes with just 1 artifact and maybe 1 trait if it's your general (unless using a non-matched play system) and just to point it out, just a reminder of my periodical complain: we still don't have Challenges!
/offtopic I can't wait to buy all the league of Votann miniatures, they look awesome!!
conceptually I think we are reaching or have reached the singularity point with respect to the rules designers expertise.
In the past most designers started out playing historical wargames, and so their design is steeped in how armies actually work. In that context a fantasy wargame is one based on medieval or ancients principles, cavalry and siege engines are very important.
however at a certain point most designers probably got started playing 40k, before maybe moving to warhammer. They lack the historical context to see why wargames rosters are structured the way they are.
So when they make a fantasy game its conceptually 40k with footslogging stormcast knights instead of spacr marines, and dragons instead of tanks. But they maybe miss that those army structures are rooted in ww2 era stuff, and can't see the point of artillery which isn't on a vehicle or monster (tank), don't have a solid idea for how cavalry tactics can be used, or what to do with actual knights.
basically to make a rounded game the gw designers need to play beyond the gw ecosystem, but is that ecosystem so sll consuming that at a certain point that is no longer encouraged? I don't think that we're quite there yet. There are still old hands in the design department. But I di think that day will come.
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Single models may also be s way of testing the waters. They will know how many Skaven sell in each shop in each quarter, but that is an underestimation of how many people are actually interested in skaven, but already have them.
Seeing who buys the book each cycle, and who grabs the new deathmaster as soon as it comes out likely tells them a lot about how much demand there is for a skaven update, and how worthwhile it is to produce.
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Clearly it's showing us that whatever it is will come out in te spring when the leaves bud.
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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I consider myself pretty plugged into the development of AoS, but this is the first time I have seen this info. I really wish GW was better at communicating these things. I would have never thought to look into a launch box tie-in novel for information on the Dawnbringers. We are reaching Kingdom Hearts or Nier level absurdity here. "What, you didn't watch the japanese-only stage play? No wonder you don't understand the ongoing plot."
Yeah, Its ridiculously inaccessible. I would have expected it to be in the core book, or at least referenced in soulbound somewhere. But like you say, if I hadn't happened to read that novel (I had an audible credit spare, and lots of models to paint that weekend!) I wouldn't be any more informed than anyone else. Its a decent novel, as it mainly focuses on the Dawnbringer's low life brother, and his misadventures as he joins up to escape criminal debts, and gets in way over his head once the crusade starts running into trouble. So its more entertaining than the "Stormcast Smash" genre you often get in the BL novels with a strong sigmarite focus. Still it would hardly be considered essential reading, if it weren't the only place with the full lowdown on the Dawnbringers. Unlike Soul Wars it barely seems to have made a dent in the consciousness of those of us who do read and discuss the BL novels.
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5 hours ago, Asbestress said:
Trying to revive the conversation here.
The Greywater art got me thinking about handgunners. If this is sort of what they'll look like, would it be a stretch to imagine that they could be moved from Freeguild to Ironweld to get it to have some kind of infantry? (Assuming the subfactions and overall make up of the army stays relatively the same.)
I sketched some stuff during my breaks the last few days based on things we've seen (the two attached Soulbound images, and the armoured "knight" from the Warhammer+ animation), I hope the image quality is a bit better than last time 😛
Also, I'd like to gauge the community's stance on the "CoS vs Dawnbringer" issue I've been seeing since the initial announcement of the range refresh.
So, for anyone reading this, do you think that
A.) The range refresh will effect the CoS range, refreshing the Freeguild/Ironweld/Collegiate/Devoted ranges and either getting rid of or not touching the duardin and elves
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B.) This will be a completely separate CoS subfaction/It's own faction
I'm personally in camp A, and although our Gracious High Lord and Saviour, the Benevolent Greyfang has expressed their opinion that CoS is the faction which the refresh was announced for, and that the Dawnbringer Crusades are a pan-Order narrative element, I've still seen opinions swaying towards B. Perhaps this will let us get a more clear view of what the good people here think.
The whole Dawnbringer crusade thing is pretty clear cut, because the Dominion novel from Black Library gives us a complete account of how the crusades began, and details how they are formed, who is in them, and what their fate often is.
In short a freeguild soldier lady in Excelcis came into possession of a particularly powerful glimmering, which granted her visions of a new City of Sigmar. The book chronicles how a rag tag army of humans, duardin, aelves and stormcast set out to try to make the vision a reality. That prophet became known as the Dawnbringer, and all of the crusades now setting out are multi racial efforts named in her honour.
So its quite definitive that humans, of whatever updated form they take, are just one part of a Dawnbringer Crusade. The Dawnbringer herself is a human, but all the military forces of a City of Sigmar can participate, along with lots of civilian settlers in the form of a peasant's crusade. In short, Dawnbringer crusades aren't some new faction. They are something that a city of Sigmar can do, and feature all of its existing forces.
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8 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:
This is why we probably aren’t seeing anything like classic Dwarfs. Its a shame but I’m hoping it means that the door isn’t closed on Chaos Dwarfs. 😁
True, though I think that the way they handled Lumineth and Soulblight suggests that if they were to do dwarves today, they would likely reimagine some classic designs alongside the more outlanding stuff we saw with Fyreslayers and Kharadrons.
I've said before that I think they'd have to be arrogantly confident in the supremacy of their "warhammer ecosystem" to not want to sell more generic designs at all. With how popular D&D etc is right now, there are going to be a lot of people new to tabletop gaming walking into GW shops, and asking to buy generic Orcs, Elves, Skeletons etc. If they say "Sorry we don't sell those, buy space marines or get lost" they're going to lose those customers. If they sell them some generic dwarves then those players will come back for the goblins they need next time, and be more likely to gradually get into the warhammer lore too. They'd have to be very daft to not support that market.
For 40K I think they have gotten to that point of saturation, where 40K is the biggest non licensed sci fi IP, and there isn't a generic default Sci Fi anyway. Each IP is quite unique and diverse, so it makes sense for them to limit themselves to their own ecosystem.
For fantasy, no matter how far they or others push the envelope, there will always be a demand for those classic fantasy archetypes (the amount amazon is spending on rings of power demonstrates that quite ably, as does the fact that GW still has the LOTR license all these years after it stopped being a mega hit.)
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The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
I can understand your frustrations, but I pretty much feel the opposite. I've liked the "side games" a lot for a long time, and it's great to see the support they are getting. There is no reason why a couple of mass battle games should be the flagship product beyond them being more expensive and thus lucrative . I love that th whole catalogue is getting pretty even support.
I can see why that is annoying for everyone who is used to one game getting the lion's share, and play that game. I hope you get your army updates soon.