EccentricCircle
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Posts posted by EccentricCircle
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Simple systems are good, complex systems are good so long as that compexity serves a purpose and is structured with some aim at elegance in mind. The problem with modern warhammer is that they actually made it too simple at the start of AoS and didn't leave themselves room to justify endless expansions. They've had to keep adding endess layers of extra rules to that simple core until the whole thing has become an unwieldy mess.
What they should have done from the start was planned a better framework which they could expand as much as their corporate overlords want. The core would have been slightly more complex, but the overall cognitive load needn't be as huge as it is now with all these tacked on extra layers of situational rules.
AoS original design was great, but they've messed that up thoroughly. We'll have to see what 10e 40k looks like, and whether that strikes a better balance, as that is the shape of things to come for us too.
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I don't think its a case of saying we want regular goblins instead of night goblins. I personally like both. I'm keen for them to bring back regular goblins because they don't currently make them, and to be fair I have quite a lot of Night Goblins already.
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Well, that one model solves a lot of rumour engines in one fell swoop.
Appropriate, since ghouls like their fell swooping!
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10 hours ago, zilberfrid said:
As far as I know, for Necromunda you need the core rulebook, gangs of the underhive and the faction book. Depending on mercenaries and game mode, you might need more. These are all full price books, every one of these books is more expensive than Frost- or Stargrave.
This also means the rules can be in any one of the books, so you'll need to bring them and find the correct section.
40k players reacted weird when I did not agree with this. I returned the core rulebook to the store and purchased Snotlings and some other stuff for the store credit, haven't looked back since.
You don't need gangs of the under hive anymore, that was the old edition, and is no longer sold. Basically the group needs a core book and then you each need your faction book. Still more books than stargrave though!
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56 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:
Could someone give me a quick summary of what Frostgrave is? I've seen it mentioned a bunch of times now. Is it another skirmish game? Does it have minis? Just curious, sorry.
Frostgrave is the original in a family of skirmish games written by Joseph McCullough and published by osprey. It was followed by various spinoffs adapting the rules to different genres, and is now on its second edition. The X-grave games are campaign driven skirmish games about a small band of warriors going into a dangerous place to recover treasure. In that respect it is a spiritual successor to mordheim and necromunda, though it does does not copy their rules. It is a much more streamlined system than most GW games, and is very rules light and easy to learn but hard to master. There are plenty of campaign books, but no rules bloat. All you need to play is one fairly cheap and accessible rules book. It does have a range of minis, both fantasy and sci fi. They are made by north star and include numerous plastic kits which are great. They frequently make two versions of their kits, one with male soldiers, and one with female ones, so have better gender representation than a lot of wargames. The kits are really varied, with tons of customizability.
Note though that the game itself is "miniatures agnostic" you don't have to buy their minis, and can play it with any models you like. The core frostgrave game stars wizards and their apprentices and bodyguards , meaning that a lot of AoS models look great for it. There aren't factions, rather the look and feel of the warband comes from what spells you choose. So aos Chaos models could be used as demon summoners, undead as necromancers, and sacrosanct stormcast as elementalists etc. Stargrave is about crews o space pirates.
The most novel thing is movable objectives. You run to treasure markers, but then your soldiers have to pick them up and physically carry them off the board while the other player tries to do the same, and you end up ambushing each other to steal the treasure. Ths and ai controlled monsters, makes the game very dynamic.
The game works best with lots of terrain, typically multi level ruined buildings like the ones you see for warcry. This makes it popular with crafters and modellers as you can actually fight over big diorama boards like you see for armies in parade. Much simpler terrain alsi works just fine as long as it blocks line of sight and divides up the board though. So you don't need huge or elaborate boards to get started. Its played on a similar table size to warcry, so a regular aos tables worth of ruins crammed into the smaller space tends to work well.
Anyway, its a great game, well worth checking out.
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Yeah, for all intents and purposes frostgrave is the modern counterpart to Mordheim. It's a better game than anything gw would put out for that niche.
It woul be nice to see a new wave of mordheim minis though. If Underworlds and warcry are anything to go by, they'd make some cool stuff.
I am collecting necromunda minis, but mainly using them in stargrave.
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I would be surprised if we get new witch hunters, because the current kit, while marketed as specific characters, actually has a lot of variety in it. You can mix and match options to build quite a few different witch hunters, and while its not on the levels of the battlemage kit and its ilk, or the stuff frostgrave gets, it is more than good enough for them to tick that one off the to do list.
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1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:
The biggest issue with throwing all the rules into one (or a couple) books is that the development time goes way up for those books, which probably makes that system less profitable/sustainable. Plus it would definitely hurt player engagement.
Sure it sucks waiting for a rules update, but throwing all the rules out on day 1 of the edition (as the extreme example) doesn't leave much to be released over the course of the edition.
The answer is probably digital rules, but they'd need to be monetized, and plenty of players like playing with physical books instead of phones, although maybe white dwarf could be flexed to address the latter part a bit.
Honestly I wouldn't hate a subscription based service for access to the rules if it led to a more involved release and balancing strategy.Oh for sure. That's the main reason I don't think they'll do it. As a consumer I'd be perfectly happy if they take their time, get it right, and then make a single solid product that will stand us in good stead for years. Basically do an update every time they release a new faction, and then it stays like that. I'm not a competitive player though, so I'm perfectly happy just having a working game on the shelf forever. I know that others will feel differently.
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Controversial opinion, I want all of the rules of the game in as few books as possible. Give me a single compendium like Warcry, or at worst one per GA like in first edition and old warcry. Put everything up front where I can find it, and don't dole it out over the course of dozens of books.
By all means give each faction a dedicated lore book with lots of juicy information about them, I am the sort of person who will absolutely buy campaign books, lore books, art books, or codices for factions I don't play if the lore and art are good enough. But what I object to is planned obsolescence. I don't want to have to rebuy the same thing every couple of years with minimal changes because Games Workshop's share holders wanted more yachts.
The best way to achieve that is to decouple the lore from the rules.
They won't do that, because they are terrified that if they do so then people won't buy it. Maybe they are right, but the fast Codex cycle is self destructive, and sooner or later it will come back to bite them.
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The wood elves were the Asrai, so its possible. I wouldn't expect them tp have such a dark elvish icon though. That mouth grill is pretty distinctive.
It's been bugging me that I'm sure the name Arenai is familiar and was one of the old elven nations of the old world...
The I remembered they are the undead elves in Eberron, so not a warhammer thing at all.
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47 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said:
This is a pet peeve. GW is so basic.
We want to show these guys are strong - let them roll up without a shirt on so everyone can see their muscles.
Because of this, you get things like chaos marauders, who are supposedly from the frozen wastes, who don't wear shirts. Those bearskins draped over your shoulders, won't save your nipples son. RIP.
It also works the other way too. We want to show these guys are fat - again, no shirt. Let their bellies hang out.
Give them some dignity, for pity's sake.
For instance, look at this Cursed City ogor. Absolute perfection. Notice he's wearing armour. Just make miniatures that are interesting, rather than try and make design statements like HE'S FAT as obviously as possible.
My head canon is that chaos marauders are used to wearing shirts and trousers in the frigid chaos wastes. This means that when they go south to balmy kislev they get too hot and have to wear loincloths.
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4 hours ago, Nezzhil said:
Necromunda
Escher bikes
Forgeworld content
Cursed City
Nemesis expansion
Underworlds
Gitz warband and rival deckHorus Heresy
Forgeworld contentWarcry
New Warcry Box - Sundered Fate
Old contentWarhammer 40k
BattleforcesAge of Sigmar
Enlightener blister
Tzeentch Curseling Blister
Battleforces
Other booksBlood Bowl AlmanacThanks for the summary, I was just wandering what was left. 40k battleforces must be next week now ours have dropped, but it looks like one solid week of specialist games should do it. I wonder what the hold up with those jet bikes was,everything else from Necro us out.
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A beastmen warband for necromunda perhaps? It's not like they'd actually update an old AoS army!
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Its an expansion for Critters and Keys obviously. About time too!
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Maybe try the wings from a 40k tyranid hive tyrant, they are maybe a little bigger, but the big advantage is that many build the no wing version, so you should be able to find spares or get them from bits sites easier than wings which are integral to a model.
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Long, long ago when I first hearf there was going to be a game called "age of Sigmar", my hope was that it would be set in that early age and chronicle the formation of the empire. That was very quickly proved wrong though!
Still it's something which would be cool to see.
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The rumour engine is specifically a holser from the biker scouts but upright, so I'm going to go one further and say that its from pioneers on foot, since they are one of the gaps in the first wave, the bikers have a very distinct look, but the duster coats etc aren't seen much in other units. I think this is a sign that that whole subfaction will be expanded on.
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2 hours ago, Overread said:
I'm SAFE!! Totally utterly SAFE* from GW Christmas Boxes this year!
Which is not to say that any are bad, though I'd argue that the AOS ones are visually more eye catching than the 40K ones. Just that I don't need/want any of them right now. The DoK one is actually really good, its just the only thing I need are sisters of slaughter, I don't need any of the rest; meanwhile the others just don't grab me. Now if there'd been a soulblight box that would have been different.* I just have to avoid any and all media relating to Sisters of Battle and Ad Mech
Same. That gloomspite box would have been great for me two years ago, but these day's i have more than enough squigs. The skaven one looks cool as a way to bulk out my troops, but I don't need any more warmachines etc. Same goes for DOK. The last thing i need is another cauldron a nd doomfires,even if more snakes and harpies would be cool.
on the 40 k side I was more at risk as I have a few factions I'd like to start, but I only play xenos, so that's a hard pass from me. Undivided chaos might have tempted me, but not what's on offer.
That's good though, as now I can save for the next warcry set without worry, or just maybe pick up the S2D starter...
...also hilarious that Fyreslayers have still never got a battleforce.
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Interesting selection. Some good sets there, though nothing that personally appeals to me.
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8 hours ago, Chikout said:
The specialist team hired a new designer last year who has done all the resin Bloodbowl minis and a lot of the Necromunda resins. The titanicus and aeronautica stuff is all done by a single person as far as I'm aware. I think they also do Horus stuff which is why their ranges have been lacking recently. Since the writing teams, designers and painters in the specialist studio are all completely separate, the success of lack of success of Necromunda will have very little bearing on what happens with Warcry.
It's also important to remember that year 2 of Warcry is already designed and possibly some of year three. The impact that sales of current products have probably won't be seen until 3rd edition. By that same measure gw is almost certainly working on AoS 4th edition right now. All the minis for 3rd edition are already finished.
Just to clarify, i 'm not one of the folks complaining or thinking one game steals another's releases. I'm actually of the opinion that GW need to slow down their edition cycle and that a quiet year is no bad thing.
it was just that someone asked how many kits necromunda had got, and since its been my main game the last year or so I went, "ooh I know the answer!"
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I think by my count Necromunda got maybe 15 new plastic modela this year, including 4 terrain kits, and the ridgehauler being split over three sets now that the fuel tanks are out.
Nomads, nomad bugs, squats, orlock bikes, goliath bikes, gunners, ridgehauler, trailer, fuel trailer, fuel tanks, hab blocks, gantries, big hab, undehive market, Hive scum.
Still no sign of the escher jet bikes, so that might bring us up to 16. I'm less sure how many forge world releases its gotten, but maybe ten or so?
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2 hours ago, Chikout said:
These changes are already in non English language versions of the book. So an English version of the book containing these changes must have been sent to translators quite a while ago. For whatever reason an outdated version of the English rules must have got sent to printers by mistake. In a way it’s actually encouraging to see this. Someone internally looked at these rules, decided they were too strong and changed them before the public had to step in Leagues of Votann style. This is some pretty direct evidence of good internal balancing work being done by gw.
My guess is that the English speaking world is their main market, so they need a lot more of those books, and start printing them long before the translations. Thus they were able to update the other editions even though the English ones had already gone to press.
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5 hours ago, Neverchosen said:
I saw someone post some images of boats on Reddit mentioning Warcry and it hit me how awesome a Warcry Naval boarding game can be and it is now my biggest obsession.
I need to buy some boats like right now!
This could in turn function like the current kill team boxes leading to a small 500 point style game.
They can produce four generically aligned boats for the different grand alliances as a Warcry box. Namely something like a Longship with Chaos stars or a frigate with sigmarite icons. Maybe for the sake of having it be playable two ships per box.
Could imagine something like this for the boxes:
Dark Oath vs. Black Ark Corsairs
Vampirates vs. Plastic Maneaters
Not sure how my beast claw raiders will fare on the open seas... might need to get some Pirate Maneaters.This sounds amazing and I would love it to be a thing. I have one 28mm scale ship for D&D which i have played warcry on before now. Getting a second for boarding actions is pricey though...
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How is that not a freeguild general?
I love steampunk a lot, but I do really think they need to be a bit more careful not to mix up the design language of their settings. AoS and 40K sure are meeting in the middle a lot recently, and I think that's to the detriment of both styles.
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The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
Thanks!