Snakeb1te
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Posts posted by Snakeb1te
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11 minutes ago, Sauriv said:
I have tried a few versions of Undergut lists and I have to say that i really became fond of gnobblars, especially if i included a tyrant in the list anyway. That 60-man strong block of battleshock immune dudes takes a while for the opponent to chew through.
One of the weaknesses with ironblasters is that they don't have a good way of rerolling any dice, volley fire is an option but it becomes super expensive because the canons are single units. Look out sir is also annoying, with artefact it becomes ±0 of course but then you are back on the swingy 4+ to hit. So i consider ironblasters to be more of a monster hunters option instead.
I also saw the potential for Gnoblars + Tyrant, the issue is that you need to buy three boxes to get the 60, which is a little steep for mere chaff.
What funny little models haha! The scrap launcher also looks fantastic but the stats are woeful.
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2 minutes ago, Kramer said:
To quote a famous president: yes we can.
they come in 2’s for 80 points.
Yeah I would. But I had two feast of bones sets. And then several games ok TTS. I started like you said with the whole shebang. 4 cannons. Tyrant with the rack. Blubbergut spell.
but it’s too many points and it doesn’t do enough. I thing gutbusters are great in the objective game. Can both take and defend an objective. But the 480 points of cannons don’t contribute enough.
Then it went to three. And now two. Underguts isn’t the most competitive Imo. But it’s fun it can hold its own in my group and the cannons force my opponent closer. And in a pinch I charge them in to defend my back lines. 2x 3,5 mw takes care of most small teleports. And it leaves me enough points for the rest.regarding leadbelchers, I feel the three units all have their place and I never tested going all in on one.
(Except ironguts twice, which was fun but I had more beers than successful charges those games)Yes we can indeed! Haha!
Thanks very much for the explanation! I love the idea of a cannon being lugged around on the back of a monster, but I'll think carefully about whether adding that in future.
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2 hours ago, Kramer said:
I go 2 cannons for the ranged threat with the 'charge as a monster spell' for turn two or three charges. More didn't work for me. Cool model though.
I consider Leadbelchers the true strength. And they are always in my list. One unit of 10. They do the same as Gluttons. Slightly worse against hordes, Slightly better against saves, much better against saves with re-rolls. And on top of that a bit more flexibility due to shooting, I need them for my Goremand battalion anyway. And they're cool.
You mean one unit of 8 or 12 right? You can't have 10 Leadbelchers in a unit.
I'm really curious specifically about the Rhinox tactic you have. Honestly the warscroll seems lacklustre,
But let's say I grabbed a couple more Leadbelcher squads to add to the battleforce and I went Undergut - let me see if I understand how you would improve it.
- Command Ability to add an attack (effectively to the cannon ball).
- If I take a battalion, Gruesome Trophy Rack for +1 to hit against Monsters/Heroes.
- Blubbergrub Stench. Average of 3-4 Mortal Wounds on the charge.
My issue is that the Cannon Ball with an extra attack is only a little better than the Hail Shot. The 4+ is a little swingy (yes it can go to 3+, but Hail Shot gets to have a 2+). So the shooting isn't hugely impressive, and 3-4 Mortal Wounds on a charge.
I don't know, I find it hard to justify buying a second Ironblaster to make this cool little Underguts thing work. Any advice for it? Would you say it is better I just spend the money on another Leadbelcher team instead?
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6 minutes ago, Kramer said:
It’s mostly because you mentioned competitive. Man-eaters are decent in what they do. Super useful. But it’s an expensive army and they are a bit overpriced compared to others units. No clear role for them. maybe they should have gotten a bonus vs monsters and hero’s. Would be thematic and help them earn their place.
firebelly roughly the same thing. But there it’s more that I want that slaughterer first. So that’s the battalion. And then if I want a second caster I personally prefer one that hangs bac since the slaughtermaster is going forward.
So the butcher with his range. (Plus the command ability in bloodgullut and the extra spell, Which I think doesn’t apply to the firebelly)Understood. Yes I thought the Man-Eaters looked good but didn't really see the greatest of synergies between them and other things. Especially with how expensive they are, and only a 5+ save, it would sting to see even a single one of those taken off..
You confirmed my suspicions about the Firebelly. They don't get the benefit of the allegiance, and overall you end up just preferring another Butcher. I'll still grab one - for fun ;). The spells don't seem to be total rubbish at least
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You're all awesome.
In summary, for a somewhat varied group of models, I will grab the following:
- Battleforce
- Start Collecting (yes I will magnetise)
- 1 Butcher, 1 Slaughterer
- Pot
Optional:
- Hunter and Fenrisian wolves.
- Extra Leadbelcher box
- Extra Iron Guts box
I'm not sure I like the idea of using Leadbelchers to make more Iron Guts. Once cool thing about that battleforce is the variety of units. I'd rather just buy another box of Iron Guts in due course. Should probably test out the army before planning that far ahead though.
None of you mentioned Man-Eaters or a Firebelly - I take it they're a waste of time? I actually thought the Firebelly has cool spells.
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3 hours ago, Sauriv said:
Hi (again) I'm also heavily invested in mawtribe and especially on the gutbuster side.
1 hour ago, Kramer said:The good:due to how the bellowers and standard bearers are made, you get extra arms and can build four more ironguts so its two units of four, which is great. Together with a 12 glutton unit, its very good base for an army.
The Bad: The Gargant has no place imo in a competitive setting. The ironblaster and Tyrant only when you build into them.Ok - so Mawtribes will be for me. I will not be entering tournaments, just friendly (but still competitive games) with friends, which means the bar is a little lower for a decent list, and magic will not be drowned out by dispels. Let me break down a little of what you both said:
- Mawtribes has decent spells in its Gutmagic and Sun-eater lores. There is a magic-focused subfaction, and even an artifact which increases the cast for one Butcher. I suppose Gastromancer trait (knows all Gutmagic spells) will rarely be chosen due to losing subfaction but it is an option. Bloodgullet buffs up a combat army pretty well, but would obviously suffer against other magic-focused armies with heavy dispels. Question: If augmenting the battleforce, should I grab 1-2 Butchers or Slaughtermasters or one of each? No idea how to compare the two models' effectiveness.
- Underguts subfaction seemed a little underwhelming when I read through it, I figured that might be because you really need to lean into Leadbelchers and Ironblasters to get anything out of it. Question: I don't want to centre my collection around one gimmick list - I prefer versatility. Is it fair to say leadbelchers are 'ok' without the allegiance, but the Ironblaster is a little bit deadweight? I'll probably take it anyway because I think the model looks fab though..
- I'll be able to build 8 Ironnguts with sprues designed only for 4? Could you explain exactly what I'd lose in terms of sprue items if I did this? As Sauriv mentioned, Ironguts are pretty good buffed up, so if I can get a bonus 4 that would be lovely - I would not need to buy a second battleforce.
Finally - I am deliberating over what to do once I have the battleforce. Seems like I have a few options which I could really use your help deciding on:
- Grab another - this would complete the army, though it'd be worth grabbing a few hero models here and there. My least preferred option as there'd be a lot of redundancy.
- Start Collecting - thematically cool, and rounds off the list with different units.
- Grab a Butcher or two
- Icebrow Hunter and a couple boxes of Frostfangs (hate the models, might go 3rd party site for these)
- An additional Leadbelcher box.
- The great pot!
I am open to using Beastclaw Raider models yes (the ones that look good ;))
P.S. What should I make of the Maneaters? The models are expensive to buy individually, are they even worth it versus Ironguts and Gluttons?
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6 hours ago, Sauriv said:
I have a 2k army of almost exclusively troggoths with the addition of a pair of cave-shamans. I have great experience playing with them but I haven't investigated/experimented with moonclan/squigs/spiders.
They are slow but can hit hard and I really like them. The competetive aspect I would say is some what limited, we recently got an trogg update in white dwarf which is really nice and good (allowing us to return half a unit of troggs after they are destroyed). What we lack is flexibility to answer well to other armies, our only tricks are hand of gork (teleport spell) and a new battalion that let us retreat and charge/shoot. So the troggoths are a little one dimensioned due to only having a few choices when it comes so units. Rockguts has few attack, high rend, high dmg. Fellwaters has many attacks, ok rend, ok dmg. Yesterday I played against idoneth deepkin and had big problems with his tanky eels with a 3+ unrendable save, had 6 rockguts doing nothing against them because of they have few attack and rely on their rend for consistency.
I wouldn't expect to see them take you to the top in the tournaments but they are fun to play and are good looking models.
(they are absolutely not useless but might struggle against the top meta)
So - would it be fair to say that this battleforce (and rockgut troggoths in general) are not very cash efficient? The army would need to be heavily supplemented by relatively pricey Rockgut boxes, and even then it pigeon-holes your army into a very singular playstyle, which isn't all that competitive anyway. Not that I will be competing - but nobody wants to spend £250 or more on models which are mono-dimensional. I also don't have access to the Troggoth rules you're referring to in White Dwarf.
As such it probably seems like the Mawtribes will be for me, and I might grab the odd Rockgut as an ally just for 'rule of cool' (and convert them up with scars and chains to represent their oppression under their parent Ogor Tribe ;))
I'm really grateful for your response.
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Would any experienced Gloomspite player be able to help me out? I'm interested in the Gloomspite battleforce but I need to decide between it and the Mawtribes box. I'm already an StD, Stormcast, Cities, DoK and Tomb Kings player.
I'm not really that interested in the Squig Riders, would it make any sense for me to buy the battleforce solely for the Troggoths and Troggboss, or am I better off buying them separately? I'm not a fan of the Fellwater Troggoths though..
Also how competitive is a Troggoth army? Is it a total waste of time or will it at least stand up to semi-optimised lists?
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Hi all - I'm interested in the Mawtribes battleforce but I need to decide between it and the Gloomspite box. I'm already an StD, Stormcast, Cities, DoK and Tomb Kings player.
Aesthetic
I do like the Gutbusters aesthetic a little more than the Frosty units. The models look awesome.
Points/Mid-tier viability
I read through the Mawtribes book today and it seemed a little underwhelming on the Gutbusters side. Would any good player recommend getting the battleforce as a good starting point? I do like the models, but I don't really want to buy uncompetitive models (as I already have fun thematic lists in other areas for that).
Monetary Value
Is the battleforce going to be good value? Are there any deadweight models I should be aware of? For example I am not interested in the Squig riders in the Gloomspite box, so it likely won't be a good buy unless i can get it very cheap. I want to know how much of this box you guys would say isn't that great, as well as which boxes I would buy to augment the force. I'm guessing it'll be more Gluttons... always more Gluttons!
Finally, would it make any sense to ally in Rockgut Troggoths?
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1 hour ago, The Mysterious Mr B said:
It sounds like axe or sword for the daemon prince, ensorcelled weapons or spears for the knights don't make a huge amount of difference but I definitely appreciated the answer and was very interested in your point about making them Khorne. I have only really used StD as Undivided, though not for any real game-related reason, more lore and not making my mind up.
As for the Gorebeasts, the real reason was that someone was selling them dirt cheap on eBay (probably shifting them for this very reason!) so thought I'd go for it. I wish they had better rules to go with (what I think, at least) are pretty kick-ass looking models... alas. That said, I think there's something about them in the new Morathi book so I'll have to keep my eyes open for any shred of hope...Wait - the weapon choice does make a difference, but it depends on what you're using it for (both ingame, as well as the outside the game i.e. casual games or some more competitive?) In other words - in some situations the Axe is much better, and the ensorcelled weapons are far better, and in others it is more close of a comparison. Depends on context.
The thing about StD is the wide variety of supporting units, and buffs.
With auras alone - Slaanesh tends to favour higher number of attacks in your units, because of the unmodified 6s to hit. To some extent so does Nurgle. The reason I mentioned Khorne is because we're talking about Lances. If you change your lances to ensorcelled weapons, then there's an argument for other marks. Undivided isn't 'bad', but it isn't as good as the others - and technically the 6 save after save from the general aura can be granted by the Warshrine (but they don't stack). Undivided is probably only any good if the general provides it to a huge Chaos Warrior or Marauder blob, where you can get a lot more value out of the save after save, and battleshock immunity from the massive amount of damage they are likely to draw upon themselves.
I am also someone who prefers Undivided - and I paint up my units as such. Using the god-mark rules doesn't bother me because I just pretend it is some kind of inspiring aura from the nearby hero, and not necessarily to do with Khorne or whatever - basically I don't take the aura of the gods literally. Then again I'm someone that is using Chaos Warrior models as Chaos Chosen, because they look too good to be as crappy as the Warrior warscroll :P. So what I'm saying is - a rule is just a rule, you can just pretend it has nothing to do with a god, and that all it is, is a benefit derived from a nearby skilled hero inspiring your troops with tactics or force of personality.
The chariots - honestly, just use them as regular chariots ;). Pretty sure most people are not going to care that you do that. Then you can use 4 chariots and 2 knights and be able to grab the Ruinbringer Warband (as long as you have a mounted lord). Then every time you charge with any of those 7 units you will inflict D3 MWs on a 2+. Not terribly competitive but at least then you have a use! The rules you are referring to in the Broken Realms book is a waste of time as it is right now - forget it (here's hoping the December FAQ improves it).
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2 hours ago, Kramer said:
This city finally has me excited to rebase my old dark elves and maybe even expand my 1K of DoK.
trying to make the most of the prayer and the models I like best I ended up with these two lists.
I struggle with two things. So help an elfy brother out
one is MW outpUt. Love my executioner models. But they aren’t as good as I need them to be to fill this hole.
second is objective play. Nothing is really holding its own in that regard. I like the Corsair + prayer + fleet master combo. Same for the dark shards.
but maybe I need to drop one for some screens/anvils. But what would function like that?Your list isn't valid - read the allegiance ability for Har Kuron - you are allowed to use DoK units at the expense of the CoS allegiance.
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23 minutes ago, The Mysterious Mr B said:
Hi all! StD collector (alongside half a dozen other armies!) for a while now but I've never had any success with them on the tabletop, but then I've not played with them since the Battletome came out so I'm hoping the Chaos Gods will smile on me now!
Previously I'm mostly just built according to the rule of cool, i.e, whatever I think looks best. Now they seem to be at least a potential contender on the tabletop (rather than being laughed off it by any army with a proper book!) I want to take them a bit more seriously. So two build questions:1. Sword or Axe for the Daemon Prince? Pros and cons of each?
2. I have 10 Knights, all with Lances (rule of cool - I think the lances look awesome!). But now I look at their warscroll again I think I've made a mistake, but I'm not sure either way! Would Ensorcelled Weapons be better? I would probably take them as two units of 5, if that makes much difference, but could be persuaded to make them a single unit of 10.
Bonus question: Which of the Chaos Gods corrupted and warped my mind into thinking having four Gorebeast Chariots made any sense?
(Apologies if either of these topics have been discussed already. I tried looking back through several pages but without reading 100+ pages there's no guarantee!)Questions 1 and 2 are referred to various times in this topic. You may want to use search.
Short answer - both weapons are viable for the demon prince, you can see what the minor differences are. Some people are convinced the sword is better and some that the axe is, but they're close enough to each other to be comparable.
Fret not about the knights! They're fine, you just need to make sure your positioning is good.
- if you run them as a 10 you will have to be mindful of the hero auras (because knights aren't going to be any good without some buffs). You would have a decent alpha strike unit that could do ok against most things... if you charge. I wouldn't run them as a 10 unless you know your opponent and their list and can see it being useful. If there's terrain you will struggle further. If you take them as 10, ensure you have the Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount or Karkadrak for their command ability.
- two units of 5 makes more sense, which as someone said previously, allows you to alternate them cycle charging. Aura buffs should be easy to apply, though not sure if it is worth using one of the mounted lord CPs for just 5 guys.
As you're using lances, the khorne mark is probably the most efficient, as nurgle and slaanesh tend to do better with more but lower quality attacks. With the knights you want to get the lances to 2+ wounding. As such, any allied Bloodsecrator would be pretty neat too!
No idea why've acquired so many Gorebeasts ;). For 150 points cost they are truly ass. They're slow, not that survivable, no rend on the crushing fists. The only good thing about them is the base size and if you can charge into 1" of two units at the same time only then it is putting a little damage.
I'm sorry to say but I don't see a use for them at all - I'd just proxy as normal chariots which are cheaper, move faster, and can count as battleine. Perhaps sometime in the future we will get the points cost reduced for them by at least 50.
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9 minutes ago, Archion89 said:
Any use for the Rokar Gresh box, even as generic chariots? I think it has some strong monetary savings, especially if you go third party vendor.
I've just received mine - monetary savings were the main reason. I will use them as cheap batteline because I refuse to use those mediocre Chaos Warrior warscrolls. Could also be useful in a Ruinbringer Warband.
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Can Vitriolic spray and Bladewind combo? If so, that could be pretty decent.
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22 minutes ago, Charleston said:
A lot of pain.
Jokes aside, most people rebase them using clippers and sanding paper to get the elevative part off the model and then they glue him on a round base.Hmmm. Damn I didn't not realise it would be so much work. I'll give it a shot thanks. If there's any chance anybody could post a picture of their own work that would be greatly appreciated..
16 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:With those models going Ravagers will not really give you anything either, empty throne at least give you another hero in the varanguards and the command abilities to bring 3 of them back on a 5+ or reduce the opponent count for objectives might help.
This can of course fight and if facing a similar type of friendly list will probably make for a fun game, but if you face anyone running half decent higher tier armies it will hurt quite a bit. I'd say it is good if you just align a bit with your opponent.
Well Ravagers would let me use multiple traits, as well as call in Marauder Horsemen for extra bodies right? The question is whether Empty Throne's objective nullifying ability makes taking it worth more than Ravagers hmmm... I'm not banking on the 5+ return to battle ability so that is irrelevant.
Oh I know this list isn't competitive. This would be exactly my second game of Age of Sigmar, so yes I would only be playing with friends using our model collection :D. Figuring out what works and building up from there - not looking for anything too competitive, but don't want to take anything non-sensical either. For example the Eightfold-Doom Sigil which is just... a whole bunch of meh.
Would it be fair to characterize this list as a decent hammer but not enough anvil?
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Also how do people put their Chaos Lord on a round base? He came with a square base for me, standing on skulls. I don't want to elevate him too much for line of sight reasons, what do the rest of you do to get him on the 32mm base?
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9 hours ago, Scurvydog said:
The chosen I will agree are very lackluster and serves no purpose in even a semi optimized list.
Warriors, knights and varanguard all got their place though.
Chaos warrior units are good anvils, especially with their reroll saves at 10+ models makes for a tanky 15 man unit, 270 pts for 30 wounds with rerolling 4+ saves and 5+ save against mortal wounds is pretty decent. Their base attack profile is not great, but can become decent with buffs and marks. Especially in a plague touched warband these guys will bring good value with their ability to tank and as a result get the chance to reflect more MWs. Marauder often end up with bravery issues, especially keeping a hero in range when they charge 10"+ is very difficult and chaos warriors needs less hero support to stick around.
Chaos knights are decent for their points now, they are not stand out army defining units as they once were and like hearthguard, witch aelves etc are for others, but they are a solid battleline choice.
Varanguard needs to be built around, but empty throne varanguard are great, being heroes makes it much easier to spread around mark auras and the grasping plate artifact is a game changer entirely, it is just so good. If brough along Archaon in an everchosen host, their damage output can become nuts. Running an empty throne list with Varanguards and knights, with warriors as an anvil can work fine, of course marauders can do the trick as well, but the warriors are far from unplayable at least.
I'm trying to find a way to put together an amateur list for house games using all the models I own. What do you reckon of the below? Is this allegiance still worth it even if just one Varanguard unit? Technically I have four heroes that can make use of the command ability to deny objectives, and the idea is to use as many hammers to kill things whilst taking objectives of my own, even if I have a low wound count.
If not, I'll just switch to Ravagers, grab a Marauder Horsemen box and go with that.
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11 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
A wizard can only cast 1 endless spell a turn, I wouldn't recommend taking more than 2 to 3.
Ok I plan to drop it down and add a Sphiranx instead. Thanks all for the advice!
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3 minutes ago, Spears said:
Its the wording of the abilities on the warscroll. "This unit can be picked to fight for a second time if it is within 3" of an enemy unit"
Oh I see - fine but the threat range mentioned previously would still be 19", which is fairly good.
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2 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:
It is, you are right. No matter how far you can pile in or be selected to fight from, in order to select the unit to fight for the second time (using the Varanguard ability or Chaos Lord Command Trait) you need to be within 3" of an enemy before piling in (for the second time), so often quite easy for a decent opponent to take causalities to deny the second attack. Both abilities are crystal clear that they need to be within 3" to be selected for a second time and there aren't any abilities, traits or artefacts that effect those specific rules.
Grasping plate does let you run/retreat to a position over 3" away then pile in and attack (for the first time) without charging, which is great.
Apologies to both - I must be misunderstanding something. If it says "it is eligible to fight if it is within 6" of an enemy unit" why would that require it to be within 3" to pile in?
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1 hour ago, Spears said:
Does the grasping plate give you 22" threat range? You need to be within 3" to get the second pile in.
You are incorrect about the 3" pile-in. There are some abilities (like the Slaves to Darkness, Slaaneshi Pleasurebound Warband) which simply increase your pile-in range.
However some abilities (like grasping plate) specify that you are eligible to fight within 6" and can pile in 6". Sisters of Slaughter from the Daughters of Khaine also have this.
The threat range I assume refers to moving the Varanguard unit 10", then piling in 6" - perhaps killing the unit, using the Varanguard ability to fight twice, then piling in another 6" into another unit - effectively allowing you to attack something 22" away even if it is behind a unit (provided you can kill the screening unit).
Hope that makes sense.
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15 hours ago, Midjithero said:
So are you playing in competitive tourneys or just a local meta? If you fight anything with a wizard or dispel inthe army you will be F’ed
Yes, the balewind gives you an additional spell Apologies for not catching that part, but that’s still not enough for all of the spells you have available in all honesty. You should drop it down to 3 max endless and bring in more wizards. Cabalists want to cast spells
I hope I’m wrong, but even only having 2 endless spells with Be’lakor, Manticore and Sorc Lord, I have trouble prioritizing between the base spell/endless spell/book spells...we have an amazing spell lore and warscroll spells
Local meta for me, against friends actually. They will have one or two wizards though. Why do you say my army will be f'ed though? Against one or two rival wizards I'm still going to outcast them with the cabalist ritual buff in most instances.
Will consider dropping 3 endless spells though.. hard to choose.
But it isn't hard to choose between base spells and endless spells - and this is because not everything is a horde (which accounts for two of the base spells I have) and the last one is a daemonic power buff to the Marauders, who on turn 1 will not need it as they will simply be screening and advancing carefully.
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44 minutes ago, Midjithero said:
This is why I don’t like our 1 cast sorcerers...
you have 350ish points devoted to endless spells, but only able to cast 3.2 spells per round. You either need more 2 cast casters (be’lakor/keeper/Epitome/Kairos/etc) or you are seriously wasting points in endless spells. Effectively you have 13 choices of spells to cast, and only 3 attempts.
I do think Godswrath is key to a Cabalist list, so love your addition of that! Could drop the 20 marauders for 10 more marauder horsemen. Your 40 block will be your only real combat threat, but that’s fine because you are screening with horses and endless spells and blasting units with spells (double moving Daemonrift is potentially insane!!)With the balewind doesn't the number of casts go to 4?
The x20 is there to act as a screen basically, both for the wizards and the x40 group. This is a turtle list, so I want to bunker up and just spam the spells around the board, compounded further by the pink horror summon the Gaunt.S will have.
The reason I'm fine with low casts is because we can comfortably put those endless spells out with the casting ritual, but the opponent should in theory have trouble dispelling them (none of my opponents are magic heavy). The idea then is to summon them and have them running around the board, with the opponent struggling to extinguish them. I feel like I have enough horde clearing between the Manticore Sorcerer and the Summoner, and I also have plenty of screening (prismatic palisade too). Question is whether I can kill elites and heroes with the spells available.
The question is whether people feel I have enough ability to take objectives and deal damage. I'm also wondering whether the spells I've chosen will be sufficient/efficient. The Emerald Lifeswarm for instance, doesn't seem worth 50 points, but the idea is to regenerate whatever bodies the ritual claims from the marauders, or even heal the Manticore/Horrors in a pinch
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7 hours ago, Revan123 said:
I found one of a few ways to play Slaves to Darkness competatively, not putting them in Nurgle. Thanks to Poland. I won against 100 morteks with this and could win against Nagash, if I do everything right.
I really like this list - I have a similar one but without the beatsticks you have, do you mind critiquing it?
AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion
in Destruction
Posted · Edited by Snakeb1te
Can the Blood Feast spell provide +1 attack to an entire unit of Mournfang, including their mounts?
And which configuration of the Beastclaw Raiders Start Collecting box would be best to accompany the battleforce with a couple of butchers in tow?
Gargant Hackers for a 4 man unit of Mournfang? No idea about the Lord unit though.