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Keldaur

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    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted

    4 hours ago, Spears said:

    Noob question but if you have a unit half within range of a hero for death save, can you kill off models out of range until the whole unit is within range and then get the save for the remaining models? 

    If you are using the nighthaunt loyalty, no, since it clearly states a model in a unit wholly within 12".

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Keldaur

    54 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

    Bladegheists have 2 attacks each on 3+ 3+, -1 rend and get an extra attack on the charge. Gets to reroll hit rolls within 12" of a spirit torment, also they have 8" move instead of the glaives 6".  Depending ob their points cost they can really be labeled as plain better. 

    They cost 90 points 5.   18 Point vs 15 points per model.

    Another difference is range.

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    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted

    1 minute ago, Ahn-ket said:

    Why not I start at 2000p half year ago and don't have any problems so far

    Because:

    - 2000 point games for newcomers take around 3+ hours. 

    - You have to invest blindly since you don't know what you really want and how it works, you only have some ideas in your head that are likely to be based on wrong assumptions. You will make a lot of mistakes on your purchases.

    - Your learning of the game will also be much slower due to information overload and time sinks. A few quick 1000 games will go miles ahead of playing 2000 games to learn the basic mechanics, tricks and timings.

    - 1000 point games are perfectly reasonable to play and start with. So why go 2000 points.

    6 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

    Its my area's meta

    Even for newcomers? It sure sounds kind of weird. If you want to play 2000 points right off the bat, go for it, i am just giving out some advice.

     

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted

    7 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

    I don't have yet the battletome. I need some advice.

    1.  I have one set (soul wars): is it interesting for us to get a second one?

    2. What are the units/heros in the  starter set that are interesting to have in more than one ?

    3. I have several former NH units: 15 Hex, 6 spirits, 1 cairn, 1 tomb banshee, 1 mourngul . Are they usefull in this battle tome wise army?

    1. It depends. I can see us playing 2 spirit torment or guards. Anyways there will be alternate models, but if you don't mind to have some monopose heroes it's fine. The chainrasp horde you can get it on ebay etc for a cheaper price.

    2. Spirit torment, Guardian of souls. Spirit torment's heal is pretty neat (much better than guardian's), but it's useful to have wizards for dispells.

    3. Look, the difference in power level of units doesn't kick in until you really know to play the game, you can play whatever you want most of the time and be fine. If you are asking if you "must" put them on the shelf, the answer is no.

    But i would say that spirit hosts are the only ones that fullfill a role that nobody does well, MWs.

    Tomb banshee requires a lot of set up, luck and/or pre-conditions to work off

    The cairn is a big meh, except if you are short on heroes in your list and need somebody else to expand the 6++ bubble, otherwise you are better off using those points for an endless spell.

    The mourngul is decent, nothing to write home about, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. It suffers vastly against MWs tho.

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Keldaur

    16 hours ago, I_usually_just_lurk said:

    I agree with the comments on battleline selection and not treating them as tax, but please don’t assume that is my intent :) I am simply trying to build a 1k list around a unit of Bladegheists, which are not battleline. I own Spirit Hosts and like playing with them, so it was kind of a natural. And I do want to play with Olynder, she was fun to play with in my test game.

    I agree with you guys’ comments on the size of the Bladegheist unit though. Very valid points.

    I will play test the following list:

     

    - Guardian of Souls (general)

    - Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

    - Spirit Torment

    - 10x Chainrasp Hordes

    - 15x Bladegheist Revenants

    - 3x Spirit Hosts

     

    As an aside, I think people will misuse the Chainghasts / Spirit Torment 12’’ bubble to reroll  hits of 1... both warscrolls mention “for units wholly within 12’’ ”. I don’t think you’re meant to use the Chainghasts to create arbitrary “shapes” of that bubble — RAW, you couldn’t cover a large unit by having part of them covered by the Spirit Torment and part by the Chainghasts, for instance. They might FAQ it. 

    I understand that most of the time is unconscious, but it tends to happen with new releases since we all want to play all the shiny new stuff, but you have to look at your list and check how you are going to score objectives afterwards. I mean, seriously, you say you aren't doing it, and you are pretty much spending 200 points in your battleline... again.

    About the latest list, i would lower the bladegheists to 10, and increase the chainrasp to 20. I would also switch the guardian of souls for to increase the spirit hosts to 6, since you are set on playing Olynder.

    The Guardian of souls spell is very good, but magic (buff, damage or debuff) is way more inconsitent now than it was before due to the new dispel range, if you already have ways to unbinding 2 spells per turn at 1000 points you should be fine. You can always equip the spirit torment with an artifact to make him a wizard if you wish to get a second source of dispells. If i am not wrong that list would be 940 points, from where you could get a command point or an endless spell (cog, geminids, suffocating would be some of my choices, suffocating works good with olynder to get -2 bravery on units and then use the aura scream).

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Keldaur

    1 hour ago, I_usually_just_lurk said:

    Very insightful, thank you. 

    I’m trying to design a 1k list for a casual environment (basement games, occasional FLGS tourney). This is what I have so far, barring traits and artefacts:

     

    - Guardian of Souls (general)

    - Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

    - Spirit Torment

    - 2x Chainghasts

    - 10x Bladegheist Revenants

    - 3x Spirit Hosts

    - 3x Spirit Hosts

     

    Pretty straightforward: Spirit Torment for healing and his buff; Chainghasts to spread that buff and for some shooting (albeit with only 2 models it’s minimal); Bladegheists for the synergy with the Spirit Torment and Chainghasts (RR to hit); Spirit Hosts to deepstrike, get objectives, flank, etc. and teleport back if wounded / needed. Olynder is a Drycha equivalent, GoS is there to heal and would either take the +3 move Artefact or the addtl. 3 wounds healed lantern.

    Would this work? It feels a bit top-heavy...

    Low on bodies. You are not going to outscore anyone but the most terribly built lists.

    I will never understand this need to treat battlelines as a tax. 2x3 units of spirit hosts are much worse than 1x6 due to how buffs, combat and revival works.

    Get a decent core, around unit and synergies, and then work from there. Don't just add units and then see how you can fulfill the battleline restrictions.

    For example

    2x6 spirit hosts + 1 Spirit torment  + 2 chainghasts are rock solid at 1k. 680 points.

    Add in a mage 820 points

    Now you have 180 points to round up the list.

    But to be honest, i would get 2 spirit torments before the chainghasts, they are so good.

    Alternatively you can switch one of the spirit host units to chainrasps or use the 180 points for chainrasps (leaving 20 for a endless spell or just triumph, which isn't bad with the spirit hosts),  which are better at screening (and we fly which is awesome when you can fly over your screen to charge with the unit you want).

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    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Keldaur

    22 hours ago, Wraith said:

    That looks good. I think the Calvary list is going to be one of the better builds.

     

    what about combining the deathriders with shroudguard? So something like this:

     

    Shroudguard

    lord of shrouds on horse

    2x bladeghasts

    Deathriders

    2x dreadblade harrows

    4x heaxwraiths

    black coach

     

    You will need points for extra command points. Being an alpha strike army, having command points in the first turn is important. You get two for the battalions but more would be useful.

     

    Build is low on wizards. I think the general trait and artefact are still there to make hero’s into wizards. Maybe add the dude on the flying horse to make a three drop list?

     

    Three artefacts with this list. Pennant of course. The mini gaming review mentioned a select your victim artefact that will be handy. And a wizard artefact.

     

    happy play testing.

    Low on wizards and i don't understand why you want to get a second battallion which doesn't fulfill a role to help the alpha strike. I am sure you would be better with the chainguard or condemned as a secondary battallion (and i am not even sure if a second battallion is wanted).

    Also if you are planning to get charges off deep strike, where is the chrono ?

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Keldaur

    3 hours ago, Nuradin said:

    It's a clever business model! Cause they know people will buy it no matter what :D The price is just too good to be true, especially if you are playing both factions. Just the heroes you get in the box is about the entire box worth of cash. Although it's a bit greedy to make the units so incompatible that they aren't even made compatible with the easy to build released boxes :D
    At least in the old starter box you could buy easy to build retributors and by that compliment the starter set! Not that it matters much anyway! I would buy the set just for the heroes any day!

    It works because even with those unusuable units, you are getting a lot of bang for your bucks. I don't think it's smart. If the box came with 5 grimreapers i would have purchased 2 boxes, this way there is no way i buy a second box.

    And as some people have stated, if you are starting out, playing regular games etc (but you are not playing in a tournament), nobody will give a fly about it, just ask your opponent beforehand to avoid the possibility of it coming off as rude and move on.

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    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted

    1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

    Sorry to say that's an old Warscroll that Google has kept a link to.  The current one (https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads//ENG Cairn Wraith.pdf) is linked from the 2018 model where they updated it to have a round base (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Nighthaunt-Cairn-Wraith-2018).

    However, from the seem of things we're getting another one shortly!  My crystal ball is that he'll get the re-roll hits against units of 5+ like the Grimghast reapers and possibly some kind of passive buff.

    Command ability pls. I am starving for those.

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    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Keldaur

    1 hour ago, The Cyclop Owl said:

    - I don’t quite understand the implications of this one. Can you specify?

     

    If you roll a 10+ withouth modifiers you get them to pile in and attack in the charge phase, so you can attack again in the combat phase.

    For people wondering, 10+ withouth modifiers is 1/6. Nice ability but too random to depend on it, command rerolls gets it on the 3/10 territory.

    The command skill seems very nice. The best thing i am seeing about nighthaunt is that all of them fly. You can screen any unit with chainrasps, and then charge/move/pile in above them. Also flying on small bases is very good with the new pile in rules, since it allows you to jump around even when you are in base to base.

    And no FT army wide was completely expected.  And i am grateful, atleast we get some random fun and tactical tools. I wonder if we will be able to get more bravery debuffs through magic and/or artifacts (or command traits). Those debuffs get better and better now that inspiring presence isn't nearly as a strong as it was before because it is only a one time thing, rather than until your next hero phase.

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    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted

    7 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

    I dunno, GW seems to be very allergic to dual kits these days. They didn't even make Namarti a dual kit (granted it was probably better since the legs are quite different).

    DoK ?

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted

    8 hours ago, Wraith said:

    A question about the Spirit Torment capture soul energy ability.

     

    The wording says ‘start of the battleshock phase’. Would that be in both one’s own and also in the opponent’s battleshock phase? 

    Correct, i am thinking about using two instead of one, it's just so darn good. The 1s reroll is just the icing on the cake.

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    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Keldaur

    Glaivewrath stalkers we will have to wait for the loyalty rules for nighthaunt. If Nighthaunt keep the "teleport", they are cheap units to get objectives with. Normally you would have them behind the horde, so they pile in and attack with their range 2", while also easilly getting the +1 to wound. Nothing amazing, but they are cheap and can keep retreating and charging.

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted

    6 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

    If they don't change the "needs to be a general" part for this unit, then there's only the mounted KoS with a command ability that doesn't need them to be the general, right? Am I missing something here - why would NH want more than the normal 1 per turn command point? For the normal command abilities every army gets?

     

    And to stack up bonuses.  But to be honest, people really undervalue rerolling charges, or getting auto 6s to run. 

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Keldaur

    To be honest, 2 starter boxes are only worth it if you want duplicate heroes and +20 chainrasps. To me, the grimghast reapers that come with the box, just don't exist. 

    Also, i would find it very weird if the grimghast reaper box isn't a multiunit box, since bladegheists atleast are practically the same. We will have to wait for the the scythes to see if they can also built from that kit, or if they will be a different multikit from where you can also build myrnmourn banshees tho.

    AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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    Posted

    8 hours ago, Nevar said:

    There has already been pictures of alternate GoS models as well as alternate Lord Executioners.  I would worry more about the Spirit Torment and Horse of Shrouds being exclusives TBH.

    Something tells me that the Spirit torment will be avaible to build with the chainghasts, akin to pusgoyles.

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