[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

With the double teleport gone, I think Eternal Conflag takes a big (well-deserved) hit, since you can't teleport the Flamer squad along with the Horrors you'll need to protect them from getting fried (in addition to the Horrors' shooting. Looking at going more magic-heavy again as a result, which is more dangerous now with mostly improved spells and the nasty Endless Spell that is Darkfire Daemonrift. 

Anybody else considered Hosts Arcanum just for the extremely cheap/fast battle line that is Screamers? Using just x3 minimum-sized squads, I'm able to squeeze 2 Gaunt Summoners into my Changehost list, for a total of 6 hero casters. Obviously the 20 Pink Horrors the Gaunts summon will be doing most of the actual blocking/holding, but the Screamers can threaten objectives that are crazy far away. Hosts Arc does unfortunately have a ****** command ability, but the free move could put 1-2  flying Gaunt Summoners in Darkfire/Geminids range turn 1, not to mention scooting the Lord of Change around if playing a short neutral zone deployment. The artifact ain't bad either, as 6 Screamers can threaten non-combat units and nothing prevents them from moving immediately after being summoned. 

 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

8 minutes ago, Paniere said:

guys you can't do that, the Changeling arrives at the end of movement phase in turn one so no spells

Ah man, good point. I don't know how I missed that. I just read the first part (at the start of first battle round) and skipped to him showing up. One less busted thing in a Changehost is healthy for the game though, for sure. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 hour ago, Xyxel said:

How many Heroes do You squeeze into Change Host battalion?

 

I find you can fit 2 more (besides LoC) pretty comfortably.

The Changeling seems like a no-brainer at this point, since he' s now a 120 point, 2-cast wizard who can pop up wherever you need (in most missions) and fire off Geminids + a lore spell right on your opponent's doorstep. This is the main use I've found for destiny dice on turn 1. Geminids is just sooooo powerful, especially when it stacks with other -1 to hits.

Herald of Tzeentch on foot took a slight hit, but got slight discount as well. He's still solid for deploying on the line and forcing your opponent to either back off a bit or get hit by Balewind Vortex > Pink Fire > Bolt of Tzeetnch (using fate dice if you want). 

You could even go less shooty and more magic damage and bring the Blue Scribes, who are as solid as ever. If going that route, you could Changehost move the Herald + another caster hero (probably another Herald) close enough to your opponent to unleash their spells turn 1 (instead of shooting blocks of Pink Horrors or Flamers), but I don't know that it would be enough damage to really cripple them. 

Although it wouldn't fit in the battalion, the Gaunt Summoner is mighty tempting since it comes with 10 Pink Horrors, who do not seem restricted from taking a normal move, since they show up in the hero phase. His spell took a slight hit, but can still terrorize 40-60 model hordes (13-20 wounds average respectively. You'd need Balewind to ever have a shot of actually hitting something with it though. 

If you're going the shooty route, another hero who doesn't fit in the battalion is the Fatemaster. Re-rolling hits for a block of Pink Horrors and/or Flamers is a huge buff, though I think I'd have trouble finding the command points, because they're needed to keep the big Horror blobs ignoring morale. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

Guys, you’re referring to a rule from AoS 1.0 that is not currently in play. Added models can go beyond original size and do not cost points. 

 

 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

17 minutes ago, Paniere said:

it s virtually impossibile to keep 20 pinks and 9 flamers  in the 9" bubble for +1to wound once they start splitting . 

How so? Just put the 2 Blues roughly in the same spot the dead Pink was in (smaller base), leaving a bit of space between each to make sure you have that wiggle room. You remove the slain THEN add the new models, within 1" of where the removed one was (which obviously includes the entire spot the original base was in). It's logistically annoying, but pretty simple in practice.

[AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion]

I have an odd request: could one of you fine chaps measure the size of the main chunk of the Magmic Fireforge? (Just the part that spans the beard)

It would help me immensely on a conversion I'm working on. Thanks!

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Just to touch back on this, I've been looking through it again and working out scenarios with a friend (Seraphon player) and I do really wonder how it can be dealt with.

From my point of view as a Skaven player, I could easily shoot off the LoC\Flamers with 6 Fiends and 9 Jezzails but.. the issues with that are:

1. Changehost is a 1-drop, dictating a large part of how the game can go.
2. Changehost allows 2 units (so let's say 12 Flamers + 1 Exalted) to target anything T1 and delete that unit.

Of course there are other shooting based armies using Bridge or that deploy from the board edge or drop down in the same way (Shootcast). Given the deployment ranges on most Battleplans, getting the chance to hide\outrange these things would be difficult and even Longstrikes\Ballistas aren't equaling the same output on average despite having the same\better range. Sure, afterwards that Flamer unit is likely dead if it gets that close but I guess that really depends on what it's wiped off the board. It's also unlikely they'll have the +1 wound aura which cuts damage a bit. Alternatively, they can just go 2nd and potentially get 2 turns worth of this shooting out. Again, not to say other armies can't do this same thing, but the ease and reliability that a 1-drop Changehost can do it at is what seems to have everyone worried.

I don't know, I don't see it being any more ridiculous than other things that have been introduced recently, so I don't want to sound hypocritical as I play OBR as well and I know it has it's own issues. I do forsee this being a big player in the competitive scene and I don't want to say it's overtuned or anything until more time has been spent at the table and not just theorycrafting. If it does turn out to be overtuned, I'm not sure how it could be changed. One potential solution we came up with was to give them a modified version of Seraphons old teleport: Pick 2 units, roll a dice for each. On a 4+ it can teleport more than 9" away from any units, 3 or less it does nothing but can still act as normal (move, shoot, etc). This would potentially mitigate it a bit.. but can't think of any other worthwhile solutions just yet. Anyway.. curious to hear others thoughts.

The Flamers have powerful shooting, but at least there's some counterplay against them. They're the definition of a glass hammer, with 6 wounds per 120 points, at a 5+ save. They'll crumple to any dedicated shooting/melee unit, even at -1 to be hit. Furthermore, they require the Exalted Flamer to operate at full capacity (except against 20+ size squads). 

The more subtle issue from Changehost, IMO, comes from the Pink Horrors.  A block of 20 is 400 points, has an utterly insane 100 wounds- 20 with 6+ ignore wound, potentially with 5+ save (just gotta kill a 9W unit during T1), -1 to hit in both melee AND shooting (Locus + Command trait). Obviously you gotta save CPs to ignore morale on them, but I can't think of a more effective use anyway. That's not even mentioning that they have extremely solid shooting as well. It's tough to grasp just how over-the-top this unit is until you see it in action. 

Changehost without any of the following would still be good, but the combination will be just brutal:

-The locus. Permanent -1 to be hit in melee is just nasty. Combo this with the -1 to hit command trait for Eternal Conflag and you're always -1 to be hit near the general. 

-Much more effective shooting than previous iterations, from both Flamers and Horrors. This gives you way more play against lists that strong anti-magic measures, like Fyreslayers or Khorne. Yes, some armies have more dangerous shooting, but they don't have everything else on this list..

-The Changehost teleport somehow becoming MORE powerful, making it extremely difficult for your opponent to escape. Someone mentioned the limited range of buffs, but as I explained previously, the LoC brings both buffs and can reach at least 13 (17-18) + 9 inches with that buff on turn 1 if you really need it. Your opponent will literally need to huddle in a corner to fully avoid it (assuming they fit) and in that case... just make them go first and waste a turn doing nothing while you have a shot at a double. 

-Pink Horrors having 5 effective wounds each. This can be used to pin your opponent back in the early game in a major way. 

-We still have strong magic. LoC + Spellportal is still 6 average MW getting blasted 39" away turn 1. Changeling (a must in Changehost) can redeploy in 2/3 of the missions and fire off a couple of nasty spells (use fate dice on Geminds, since the -1 to hit stacks with Locus). 

-A LoC still dominates the opponent's magic phase. A couple of decent fate dice, or just average luck, will be shutting down your opponent's most important spells every turn.

-1 drop battalion. These have gotten more rare over time, particularly with powerful abilities attached to them. You can dictate who goes first and either alpha strike or make your opponent durdle around for a turn then go for a double. 

Yes, some armies do have counterplay against this. Someone mentioned Deepkin in that regard. However, only a few armies/builds having any real agency/options against a build make it pretty oppressive. All in all, I'm concerned. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

32 minutes ago, Elephant_fresh said:

Hey guys,

is there a way to make a competitive disciples army that doesn't use horrors? I'd like to start a more shooting focused army but would hate to paint 100+ pink/blue/brimstones

Something like eternal conflagration with flamer spam and lots of skyfires?

I'd make sure you have something to screen for the Flamers. Although they're finally deadly, they're the glass-iest cannon around, with durability-per-point one of the lowest I've seen. Chaos Warriors, Chaos Marauders, Screamers, or Tzaangors all seem like reasonable options outside Horrors.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

Is anyone else a little concerned about the power level of the Changehost, combined with how much more effective the shooting is? It makes for a really dirty 1 drop/alpha strike list that just takes all the control of the game away from your opponent. Here's a sample list (probably not optimized):

Infernal Conflagration

LoC 3- -1 to be hit wholly within 12 at range, +1 to wound wholly within 9
Changeling 
Herald of Tzeentch - required crappy artifact 
x20 Pink Horrors 
x9 Flamers of Tzeentch 
x3 Flamers of Tzeentch 
Exalted Flamer 
x10 Brimstone Horrors
x10 Brimstone Horrors 
Geminids
Balewind

Changehost

So, on turn 1 (if the alpha strike is worth it), you're looking at:

x60 Horror shots- 3+/3+/-1/1 dmg (17.77 wounds against 4+ save). Additionally, you can probably complete the Overthrow Leaders agenda to make them permanently 5+ save for the rest of the game. 100 wounds at 5+ with -1 to hit in melee and shooting... ugh.

x28 Flamer shots- 3+/2+/-1/d3 dmg (20.73 wounds against 4+ save) (even more against 10+ size squads)

If map allows it, Changeling within range to unleash Geminids + a lore spell (lot of wounds here, along with -1 to hits, which will stack with the Locus

If your opponent deployed to allow it, the Herald of Tzeentch can Balewind up and fire off Pink Fire + Bolt of Tzeentch. 

If your opponent deployed to allow it, the other Flamers + Exalted may also be in range.

 

So at the end of turn 1, your opponent will have lost about a quarter of their army, have 100 wounds in front of them to be dealt with, with their most dangerous threats at -2 to hit them. Seems reallllly nasty. They could try to deploy to out-range you, but the range is pretty drastic (13" inch move from the LoC, + 9" for +1 wound relic + 18" shooting = 40" from your LoC. Can even use Fate dice/CP to make the LoC move even further guaranteed. )

Does any of that sound like an issue for game balance to anyone else?

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

A couple of quick clarifications, regarding the Gaunt Summoner (either version):

1. Is there anything preventing the newly-summoned unit from immediately moving? It shows up in the Hero Phase, so I don't see why not. No FAQ yet for StD, which may clear it up. 

2. Is the StD version REALLY only 200 points?! What's to stop someone from running several and getting a free 200-point Pink Horror unit from each one at the start of the game. If so, to heck with Changehost- just vomit up 4+ free 50 wound units turn 1 and watch your opponent try to get through it all. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

13 minutes ago, MattyP said:

i'm working on a list: 

Eternal Conflagration

Changehost Battalion

LoC

Changeling

exalted flamer

20 pinks

6 flamers

....more pinks?

.....screamers

rest is TBD...i'd like to try Fatemaster and/or Herlad on Chariot or disc...and some endless spells. The theory being that the pinks (and maybe flamers) could be moved into enemy territory from Changehost ability and then the Changeling could appear behind them, giving them the Locus....i like that the Coven ability would give Horrors, Flamers and...i believe....Horrors on chariots the -1 rend...appreciate feedback thus far

Looking at something very similar myself. The temptation is to go all-out on the shooting, with 20 man pink squads and/or 12 man Flamer squads. Between being 2-drop and getting to teleport both shooty units turn 1 (can just have LoC run to catch up with them before they start shooting), your opponent doesn't really have much agency.  You just... shoot 2 units forward and unleash a disturbing amount of firepower on turn 1. 

The Fatemaster takes some of the bite out of -1 to hit penalties some armies may have. Combine this with a 200 point unit that has 50 wounds and I foresee this army causing major issues in the near future, especially in the hands of a smart player. For this reason, I think Pink Horrors may prove to be a better better than Flamers, despite the Flamers being more dangerous, because of the huge durability difference (Flamers will die to pretty much anything). 

I can't decide between the Fatemaster and the Gaunt Summoner. Both seem like must-takes, but you can't fit both and the battalion and still have some chunky shooting units. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

Anyone able to confirm how many attacks each version of Horrors gets? It’s the one clutch value I can’t quite make out in any review I’ve seen. 

The unit has had one of the most drastic changes I’ve ever seen in warhammer. A 50 wound shooty unit is just... weird 

 

Edit- nevermind, looks like it's 3 for Pinks, 2 for Blues, and 1 for Brimstones. That is a LOT of shooting. A 20 man Pink Blob could be reallllly nasty with all the buffs, especially if you've got a "1" fate die or two to use for battleshock to cover the losses. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Asimov said:

Remember taht to swap you need both units to be at 27"of your LoC. It can ba a limitation to place your changeling right

Otherwise I really like the ideau of Lauchon and will give it a try 

 

One more note I didn't realize until right after- Lauchon requires you stay 9 inches away when getting out. There's not a restriction on your movement phase, but you'll only be able to get Purple Sun 3 inches from your opponent before getting it moving. As such, Aethervoid Pendulum may be more reliable damage. 

Anyone have experience with either spell? They're so hard to evaluate on paper.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

2 ways to pull off the Purple-Sun-on-your-opponent's-doorstep-turn-1 trick:

1. Changehost swap a Pink Horror squad to get a bit of extra movement. Then, summon Lauchon's boat (with said Pink Squad already in the right spot to hop right in). Move your Lauchon 12 inches, get out (3 more inches). Cast that bad boy! You'll lose the Pink Squad, but you can string em out 3 inches from your opponent's lines to block like 21" of their army from moving during their turn (hero phase casualties aside). The Purple Sun will be able to go 2.5" deep into their army before having to back out (unless they're foolish enough to leave a spot for it to land). 

2. Deploy Changeling right near the bulk of your opponent's force. Changehost swap 10 Pink Horrors, cast the spell, and string out to block their movement, same as above. This will probably not be possible on missions where your deployment zones are much smaller (roughly 1/3 of the missions). As such, I think Lauchon's is superior (and 120 points cheaper than Changeling).

[AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion]

I'm frankly concerned that the Spellportal will result in either a nerf on the spell itself or Nagash in the near future. I haven't seen it yet in practice (first 2.0 game tomorrow), but the spell takes away Nagash's only real downfall: his limited sphere of influence. Prior, a savvy opponent could limit his effect on the battlefield by committing resources wherever he wasn't. Now, Nagash can sling spells around the battlefield as desired, with his shortest-range spell (Hand of Dust) now reaching out a good 22".  Furthermore, the 30" range unbind allows him to effectively take entire other armies out of the magic phase (taking the new Endless Spells away from less magic-heavy factions). 

We'll see if my fears are unjust, but it feels like he'll just dominate the meta if the Spellportal keeps its current rules.

[Events USA: Nashcon Age of Sigmar GT]

I wanted to chime in and thank David Griffin for putting on one hell of an event. Last year was already the best Warhammer event I had attended and David somehow managed to outdo himself this year, with even more players and at least 20 boards with the best terrain/battlemats I've ever seen in one room. Unfortunately, I neglected to grab a single photo, but hopefully someone can share a few.

If you didn't make the trip down this year, I highly suggest keeping it in mind for next year!

[Events USA: Nashcon Age of Sigmar GT]

On 4/14/2018 at 1:28 PM, Ebrick said:

How many people were there last year, for age of sigmar.

There were 28 players last year. It was possibly the smoothest event I've ever attended (40K or Fantasy/Sigmar).

[Events USA: Nashcon Age of Sigmar GT]

Just chiming in to say this event rocked last year and I'm quite excited about going again!

[Events USA: Nashcon 2 Day Event in Nashville, TN June 3-4]

I just wanted to bump this thread to give a shout-out to David Griffin for putting on one hell of an event. The terrain was the best I've ever seen at an event this size (~30 attendees). The event ran smoothly. Rules questions were handled efficiently. The schemes brought an unexpectedly enjoyable element to the tournament. I literally cannot think of a single complaint. As I understand it, this was the first time WFB/Sigmar was at Nashcon and I hope to see it again next year.

 

I'll share a few photos of the table terrain that impressed me most: