[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

7 minutes ago, Xasz said:

I'd still like to know the exact wording of Blood Tithe in this book... the wording really can make or break the system and GW doesn't have a very good track of implementing it.

I don’t have the book, but either in this thread or in some review I have heard they are still spent all at once. I expect it to be so. I think building for Blood Tithe is a trap. It’s a welcome bonus for me, nothing more.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

One more thing... It is certainly a bit RAW interpretation, but if you read the skull cannon’s ability it also does not specify that attacks in the combat phase have to kill a model for the second round of shooting going off...  It only has to kill with shooting and fight. RAW.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

33 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

Yeah I remember the days when Chaos Warriors and Knights were the most feared infantry/cavalry in the (WHFB) game. Just look at them now. 😢

Are BoK generally considered an 'easy' army to play compared to others (except for SCE)? Being a flagship army and all. Perhaps they want to keep us simple and mid-tier?

I would rather say that they are one of the hardest armies to play. At least for me, it was extremely difficult to balance buffing units and buff vectors. Although I think that I was overthinking it, learning the game. And I play almost entirely Mortals, which before were a bit weaker than Deamons, I would say?!

Still, without buffs your units cannot compete (different for SCE for example, or some Death Units - Reapers I am looking at you...). You have almost no fly (except Blood Thirsters) and hence rely on mid-range Mortal Wounds from priests to get units behind enemy lines (different for Nurgle for example with Mortal Wounds all over the battlefield). Your Blood Tithe also create a trade-off between summoning  and buffing (again, Nurgle has two separate mechanics for that).

All in all, Khorne is not necessarily worse than other armies, but you need to prepare your list well, and you need to be very attentive during the game and make the right decisions. My experience is that making mistake with them is very unforgiving.

So that is my opinion on it. I also play Nighthaunt. I find them easier to play.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

8 minutes ago, Rivener said:

I’ve got some math I’ve done on the subject, but it’s not in front of me at the moment. In terms of sweeping statements though, blood warriors do a small number of wounds per point spent on them. For example, a BW 30-man unit costs 520. They do about 7 wounds against a 6+ save enemy, which is optimal prey for them. Divided out and they spend 74 points per wound caused.

 

Calculating in buffs is helpful, but that tide raises all boats. It’s hard to calculate how saves allow them to fight again, and how Gorefists and fight-on-death come into play. With those caveats in play, blood warriors simply don’t measure up to virtually anyone else. 

Well, if you assume that of a 30-man unit 20 Blood Warriors get in (only normal axes, not even the champion, and the enemy unit has a 6+ Save, then their expected damage on the unit (when activating first, no buffs, not even rerolls from double axes or their gorefists included) is 11.1. So it is not that bad. Yes, other units are mathematically better, but many of these have less buffs available, and do not rely on using the no respite rule skillfully. I believe Blood Warriors are not the worst Battleline by far. Look at... Liberators...

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

7 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

Speaking as one inexperienced with playing as any other AoS faction, what exactly makes them weak?

Their expected damage output per point is very low compared to many other Battleline options. Especially outside BoK. Defensively, there are also better options. And they completely fall apart against shooting. However, as I said above, I think you can make them work, with their no respite rule, the new Wrathmongers and the Goretide bonuses. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

I do not know. Everyone seems to think Blood Warriors bad, but fact is you need Battleline and 3x 6 Juggers, I don’t think that is viable. They totally depend on the charge. You need screens in my experience. Before I was relying on Reavers because Blood Warriors were not efficient, but now... I am considering.

Do you want to charge an object held by 10 Blood Warriors with 5 Wrathmonger behind and a Secrator buffing them? It will eliminate half your unit whatever you throw at them. If not the whole.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

I like that both mortal subfactions seem to be attractive to people. I lean towards Goretide. And I don’t think Trait nor Artefact are useless “taxes”.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

8 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

Yeah I was thinking of the Gorecleaver. Since if he gets the Slaughterhost (Goretide) trait he gets an artifact as well.

You can let another character be the general I guess but who's a cooler general than the Juggerlord.

For clarification: I thought choosing the Goretide will ask of you that the first artefact given is the one given by the subfaction. Fine. Do you have to give it to your general? Because if not, I’d give it to another, take a Battalion and give Gorecleaver to the Lord on Jugger. Together with the mandatory Trait... The idea of doing 8 Damage in one swoop fell... That is Khorne.

Edit: Answered above. This is how Khorne wants you to roll!

Edit No. 2: Guys - 8 Damage. I only see it now. It’s Khorne’s favored number. I bet, if you succeed in this you immediately win the game as the board slowly fills with boiling blood.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

I think regarding battalions we have to remember that they contain a CP (50 points value), an artefact  (which I usually price at 30-50 points - ask yourself what you would give for a specific artefact) and a drop reduction (which can be huge). So all in all the new Gorepilgrim for me comes at 40 points. And Dark Feast at 10! Of course values can change depending on the particular list. But if you see it that way, they are very valuable. 

Edit: Remember the value of multiple artefacts in Khorne lists - some missions require you to have an artefact or a Wizard! I hope none of you considers taking wizards...

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

These are, for me, unexpected, quite massive changes to the Warscrolls. I am so curious about the points...

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

15 minutes ago, Xasz said:

No and everyone who does is a liar.

We currently know less than 5% of the book (think about Warscroll changes) and the deciding factor of things have always been points. Which we will see the earliest at the end of next week.

Okay.  Good answer... well, I suppose it was a rhetorical question anyways. Obviously, points can make more units instead of more buffs a better choice.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Can anybody tell me how this is supposed to work out?

Most meta lists form around Gorepilgrims. I see that there is a power shift from battalions to units and judgements. Alright. However, why would I - given the current information - not take Gorepilgrims again in the future?

The Bloodsecrator’s buff is terribly important for most units (e.g., Bloodletters) and even with enhanced Warscrolls (see Mighty Skullcrushers), why would I not want a Bloodsecrator? And judgements make priests mandatory.

In my view, we are now competitively stuck with the builds around Gorepilgrims, more than before even. And that makes me a bit ... disappointed right now?

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

2 hours ago, Roark said:

It should be noted that the Altar doesn't grant rerolls of Blessings, just Prayers and Judgements.

True, it speaks of prayer and judgement rolls. However, Gorepilgrims speaks of “Bloodfuled Prayers and Blood Blessings”. I assume that judgement rolls are different from prayer rolls, but that they will subsume Bloodfuled Prayers and Blood Blessings unser prayer  rolls. Anything else feels silly and, more importantly, complicated.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Just now, Bjornas said:

I would've liked for the Altar to not just revolve around Priests and magic, but something for the actual army as well/instead. This way the supposedly fightiest combatiest army across the eight realms is still overshadowed by worship and prayers. IMHO GW has gotten lost in their own trail of ideas here.

That's not to say the Judgements aren't cool or anything.

I imagined at the very first mentioning of a scenery  piece just a huge pile of skulls. And doubled Blood Tithe Points around it.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Yeah. Looks all good. The judgements are more reliable than casting (a 5+ is slightly less probable than a casting value of 8+, but with reroll it is a 55% chance). The judgements fulfill a crucial role for Khorne armies - debuff to hit on shooting units and damage in the back field. It is also good that we have that 8” radius for the altar. At least you can move around a bit. And yes, Khorne seems set up as a anti-magic/anti-meta army. However, I am still not certain whether mortals get stronger in the end.

I believe that the priests get a rule of one - also for those prayers on the scroll (so, with the judgements you will be able to deal similar damage, but it will be more difficult and much more costly - prices for those judgements cannot be low). Maybe we will even see a limit on how many prayers priests can perform a turn. It is possible. Wizards have the same limitations. And before the points are clear, nothing’s said and done.

Side note: Deamon players won’t like that the central model is a priest now, besides the Bloodsecrator.