bonzai
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Posts posted by bonzai
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On 8/13/2018 at 9:58 AM, Kugane said:
I would love to hear how the throwers perform in the list! Remnants of the clawpack I assume?
Skaven are in a weird place. Fully buffed clanrats can do like 14 damage per 100 points, but thats buffed, unbuffed most units hang around 2 or 3 damage instead. With things like Sequitors unbuffed (other than self buffs) dealing 5 damage/100p and skaven hanging around mostly 2.5/100 stuff, its harsh competition.
Genestealer cults just got some love though, so perhaps GW is finally giving some attention to our sneaky boys soon as well. Perhaps for gender neutrality we will finally get some broodmothers. That would be a true horror to behold I would imagine.
Yep. I found that the warpfire throwers were the most reliable weapons team to add to the clawpack.
Usually I will support a single brick of clan rats with them, adding 3d6 mortal wound potential while the rats tarpit.
Clan rats can do a lot of work themselves. I have seen the bulk of a brayherd army implode after charging into a brick of clan rats with gnaw-gnaw and death frenzy up.
What made the list strong before, was the battlestandard providing in essence a bubble of inspiring presence, and the claw pack giving a bubble of gnaw-gnaw. With the crown on top of it, it was like getting 4 command abilities a turn. It's not quite there again, but with the new crown and command point mechanic, I'm back to about 2 1/3 command abilities a turn. So its progress at least.
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I had shelved my Verminus army with the last handbook. The loss of the clawpack and the nerfs to the banner and crown pretty much gutted it. Now I think they are at least playable again. Here is the list I'm going to run, mainly as a soft ball list for learning games.
Verminlord Warbringer w/ crown, cunning deciever 280
Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror 220
Skaven Warlord w/ war halberd & barbed blade 100
Skavem warlord w/ warpforged blade 100
20 Stormvermin 280
40 Clanrats w/ blades 200
40 Clanrats w/spears 200
40 Clanrats w/ blades 200
Allies
Warpfire thrower 70
Warpfire thrower 70
Warpfire thrower 70
Warplightning cannon 180
Total: 1,970Is it competitive? Not even close. But it is relatively balanced. Between the crown, broodhorror, and changes to inspiring presence, my bricks of rats shouldn't implode to quickly to battleshock. Lots of bodies to chew through with some ranged mortal wound support, a couple behemoths to throw some concentrated punch, and enough heroes to make sure all my squads have access to allegiance and command abilities. I have always loved what gnaw-gnaw and death frenzy dc o for storm vermin and clan rats. Now I might even get to use the verminlord's ability on top of it.
It has problems though. It's light on casting, but at least it has the verminlord to dispel endless spells where needed. Scaven are comparatively fast, but can be outmaneuvered on the board. The biggest weakness that I see though, is that it is really starved for command points. There aren't any battalions for Verminus allegiance to take any morethough, so cunning deciever is the best we got.
Over all it's not as strong as it was, but it is at least playable again. I'll use it as a training wheels list against new players. In particular it will be a good warm up for my wife's new night haunts. It will be nice to at least see them on the board again.
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22 minutes ago, Wraith said:
Edit: I forgot to add, it is the hero’s in elven builds that do the damage.
I don't know... I've done some work with lots of reavers and triple bolt throwers.
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6 hours ago, Benlisted said:
Popping this in here cos it seems to get a lot more traffic than the army list thread, and hey, everyone else is!
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Hi all, new to AoS - got lured in by the amazing ghost models. I have done a fair amount of reading so hopefully I have a reasonable idea how stuff works, but best come to those who have actual experience eh
Basically I am hoping to make a Shrieker Host work, since I love all the Banshee-type models. So basically, going down the bravery attack angle. Anyway, here's my current list idea...
Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Lady Olynder (240)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul CageReikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: LifestealerSpirit Torment (120)
- General: Supernatural Horror
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
- Lore of the Underworlds: ShademistTomb Banshee (80)
- Artefact: Blade of Dark Summons
Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
Units
5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (90)
5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (90)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
Battalions
Shrieker Host (140)Endless Spells
Suffocating Gravetide (30)
Ravenak’s Gnashing Jaws (40)
Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107Comments welcome! The general idea is to take everything possible to minimise enemy bravery. The 2 endless spells coupled with NH's native -3 can stack to a -3 total, and then we also have: reroll 1s on battleshock from the battalion, +1 model flees from battleshock from Olynder, and double the models fleeing from battleshock from the general's command trait. And then denial of inspiring presence with the battalion as well. So outside of total immunity to battleshock, hopefully the tests should prove devastating.
Reikenor is there for the bonuses to cast, to ensure endless spells go off, whilst Olynder is a) a giant banshee, b) pretty great at forcing multiple battleshock tests, and c) has some bravery attacks of her own. The Torment is largely to keep those two topped up nicely, whilst the Banshee is required. I was a bit stuck for a second artefact on the Banshee, so the summoning blade is a bit of filler, but I figure a free ~7 Myrmourns isn't half bad, and it fits thematically.
The Reapers are there as a bit of a hammer, hopefully able to make it across the board in short order and begin smashing a couple of things to force bravery checks. Hordes are filler screens/obj holders. The Myrmourns should help me ensure magical dominance, as well as being really rather nasty to any elite units in those numbers (I do wish I could fit in a KoS mounted though). Harridans I know people are a bit down on, so my thought there is not to invest heavily, and use them as a unit that is easy to hide but still packs quite a punch for their small numbers.
I am expecting half the army to come in from reserves; probably most of the formation, though if the enemy can delete Olynder if they get T1 I can happily drop the Harridans too. What I am not sure on is if I have enough of two things: a) enough general damage output to force the BS tests I need to, and b) enough targeted MWs to be able to down the odd character that gives battleshock immunity (Lord Ordinators, I think?)
I have been struggling with the same battalion on the previous page for my wife's army.
I am on the fence about large units of myrmourn banshee. On one hand they are great anti magic units. On the other, I am not thrilled about their combat ability. Also if the opponent doesn't cast spells then they are kind of a waste. I have a hard time justifying multiple large units of specialist units, but I guess play testing will show how they perform on the table.
Harridans however, are even more punchy than the reapers, plus they reduce your opponents hit rolls by 1. I kind of like them. Plus with Lady Olynder and Geminids you can stack two more to hit debuffs. I just wish that they were about 10 points less expensive and or battleline. I kinda want to run units of 20.
My problem with my list is that I get pulled in too many directions. You need offence, casting, anti casting, debuffs, and healing. It's really hard to fit everything you want into one list. I'm hoping it will get easier with some play testing.
I may drop the battalion all together and try this list;
Heroes
Lady Olynder- General, w/ lifestealer 240
Banshee 80
Spirit of Torment 120
Spirit of Torment 120
Guardian of souls w/ lantern of Nagagishizzar, soul cage 140
Battleline
10 chainrasps 80
10 chainrasps 80
10 chainrasps 80
Other
4 myrmourn banshee 80
20 dreadscythe Harridens 320
20 dreadscythe Harridens 320
Mournghoul 300
Endless Spells
Geminids 40
Total: 2000Battleline is still light, but it has all kinds of penalties to hit debuffs, lots of healing, and it's a bit more focused on what it wants to do. Hate to say it, but I kind of like it better than the bravery shenanigans. If the list kills enough, they will still deal with battleshock anyways.
Hmm... I'll have to talk to my wife. If I drop the banshee and myrmourn I could buff up a unit of chainrasp for a battleline unit with bodies. But she wanted to represent the ghost chic's so we will see. Lol
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16 hours ago, KoalaSnok said:
Just like you said i feel like your units are too small and will be easy to pick off entirely, rending your healing abilities useless (cant bring back whiped units). Its hard to tweak if you want to keep the theme though, and still keep that mournghul. Maybe you could drop the spirit torments to free up 240p to spend on either upgrading the chainrasps to 3x20, or expanding the harridans to 20 and 15? Alternatively, drop 1 spirit torment and one of the endless spells and just put one harridan unit to 20.
Third option, drop a spirit torment and replace the chainrasp with 3x3 spirit hosts. They get a better ethereal save and benefit more from Olynders command ability (bringing back whole models).
Yeah, not sure what to tweak. I like the double spirits of torment, as they can heal characters. Theoretically as long as I kill 3 models a turn, the mornghul could heal 3d3 in a round which makes it pretty darn tanky. Also helps keep lady Olynder topped off.
I hate to say it, but it may be better to drop the shieker host and just focus on debuffing hit rolls and bulking up some units. Dropping the battalion and all the endless spells but the geminids, and I'd free up 200 points to play with.
I guess have to test it as is, and see how well these synergies pan out in practice. I like the ideas behind them, but it feels like I am short about 500 points in this list.
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7 hours ago, Kamose said:
That's a fine looking army list. One minor detail about the skink priest though. I never rely on them. I don't know about you but all of my skink priests are atheists. ?
They consistently fail EVERY SINGLE prayer attempt. Last game my skink priests (yes, plural) each failed a 4+ roll five times. They do this every game, with or without rerolls, doesn't matter. ? It's become a joke at my FLGS.
If he doesn't pull his weight I'll swap him for a star priest. I've played enough games against a friends eternal star host with near constant 2+ rerollable saves to have some respect for them.
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3 hours ago, tokek said:
I agree that the rule of one needs to be put back in place on Kroak but its not exactly one model doing all that. It is actually:
Kroak
At least one Astrolith, probably 2 or more
Balewind Vortex
So we are looking at 650+ points and at that level you need hot dice indeed to get all the spells off, which is why you will probably go deep and invest in more astrolith bearers.
I think its even worse than the old version of Kroaknado (which was pretty un-fun for some opponents) but it is not really more broken than the grot doing 64 damage per hit or a few other shonky things that can happen right now. Some more rules of one will calm the whole game down nicely. Kroak is not specifically the problem, the lack of brakes on the stacking pain-train is the problem.
I'm not sure that you even need the vortex anymore. I am thinking of this version.
Heroes
Lord Kroak 450
Slaan -general vast intellect 260
Astrolith Bearer, incandescent rectrices 160
Skink priest, priestly trappings 80
Battleline
40 skinks, boltspitters 240
10 skinks, boltspitters 60
10 skinks, boltspitters 60
Behemoths
Bastillidon, solar engine 280
Bastillidon, solar engine 280
Endless Spells
Chronocogs 60
Umbral spell portal 60
Total: 1990Deploy with the big squad of skinks bubble wrapping kroak and friends. Plant the banner, Slaan casts Curse of Fate on himself to try and guarantee the +1 to cast celestial rite, plus Kroak re-rolls. Priest does his dance for re-rolling saves in a bubble. Cast chronocogs and spell portal. Kroak does his thing, and the slaan summons and punts things where they need to go. If deployed right there will be no room to deploy predatory spells back through the portal at you, and you have two possible spots for Kroak to nova from. Then you have a barrier of skinks and bastillidons with rerolls to hit and saves to walk through, plus any summoned fodder.
Seems really strong to me. Possible 8 spells a turn, 7 unbind attempts anywhere on the board, nasty shooting, mobility, and summoning. It checks a lot of boxes.
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Hey all.
My wife is starting Nighthaunts and wants me to help her with a list. She wants to play a female centric list (of course), so that has me leaning towards the Shrieker Host. Here are my thoughts so far;
Heroes
Lady Olynder- General, w/ lifestealer 240
Banshee w/ midnight tome, spectral tether 80
Spirit of Torment 120
Spirit of Torment 120
Guardian of souls w/ lantern of Nagagishizzar, soul cage140
Battleline
10 chainrasps 80
10 chainrasps 80
10 chainrasps 80
Other
4 myrmourn banshee 80
4 myrmourn banshee 80
10 dreadscythe Harridens 180
10 dreadscythe Harridens 180
Mournghoul 300
Endless spells
Gravetide 30
Geminids 40
Prismatic Palisade 30
Battalions
Shrieker Host 140
Total: 2000Essentially I am trying to capitalize on two synergies. First is bravery shenanigans and the second is a negative penalties to hit. The shieker host forces the opponent to reroll rolls of 1 on battleshock, and are unable to be targeted with inspiring presence when close to models in this formation. I want to further augment this with the army's natural -1 debuff, and the gravetide. Hopefully between all this, it will help force some battleshock losses.
The second is stacking negative penalties to hit on dangerous units. The harridens have a -1 to hit penalty to models within 3. The Mournghul has -1 to models within 6. Lady Olynder has a spell that also gives -1, and lastly the Geminids can also give a -1. That's a possible -4 that can be stacked!
So it plays on ghosts strengths... being spooky and hard to touch. However I have some concerns. There is a low model count comparitivley. The Harridens are most likely over priced, and feel like they should be in squads of 20. I try to compensate for this by amping up the healing. My battle line is minimal, and will most likely just drop on clear objectives later in the game.
Other than that, I have 3 wizards, and two units that can also unbind. The palisade was put in due to me having 30 points left over. It will be useful for blocking firing lanes and messing with the opponent.
I would love to hear thoughts and suggestions on this list.
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11 hours ago, Skabnoze said:
Interestingly, from what I can tell the drakkfoot spell will stack with the Wurrgog's command ability. They specifically changed the Wurrgog's command ability so that you cannot trigger it more than once on a unit but they did not alter that spell. I am curious if they simply forgot that exists or they purposefully allowed it. I'm not sure how often I would want to stack those on a single unit as opposed to using them on different units but I am sure it would come in handy at some point.
I would imagine it's by intent. It's nothing that we weren't already able to do before. In theory a boarboy maniac in a drakkfoot could pile in and attack 4 times in a round (admittedly it's very tricky to pull off).
Ultimately a Kunning Rukk is better due to the efficiency of arrow boys, but moreboys in a kopp rukk are probably our second best option once they are buffed up. Big stabbas are also good candidates. The main problem is finding points to fit in everything you want to after meeting all the requirements and battalion costs.
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6 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:
After comparing the rogue idol and troggoth hag changes directly compared to the old ones I'm really not fond of the changes. Troggoth hag only got nerfs and went up 20 pts to 380 and the rogue idol got some changes that bring more consistency ( no more 2d6 move and attacks) but besides that only nerfs for the same point cost -.-
Rogue idol straight up got buffed! No more random movements. No more debuffing leadership when it dies ( so in large games I can use both of mine, one for Gork, and one for Mork). It can retreat now if it wants, and no more random stomping feet. Best of all, still 400 points and an ally faction.
On a sad note, they took out the summoning on the monsters so I can no longer take the incarnates.
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6 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:
So no update for the Mystic Waaagh! Paint artefact, meaning it now actively nerfs your casting range. Because it's only Destruction.
I'm finding it really hard not to feel insulted, when they did update Magical Supremacy for Tzeentch.
Yeah, missed opportunity there. Mystic Waaagh paint unbinding range, the unit requirements for Mad with the Power of the Waaagh on savage orruks, and even our path to glory chart could have been fixed. Very disappointing.
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3 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:
I don't think the Forgeworld units summon spells on the warscroll are going to survive the release FAQ. I saw it confirmed somewhere that the Forgeworld FAQ & Warscroll update is going to come out day 1 along with the other errata. I expect that they will have made a decision on how to handle these things. But maybe they do keep them - you never really know.
Very likely, however without the summoning mechanic you can't take very many of them without breaking your faction allegiance. It was a nice work around, even though the spell was insane to cast.
I'd be surprised if forge world was that on top of it though. Especially on models they no longer carry.
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I have been thinking about everyone's suggestions, and I have revised my list.
Wurrgog w/ squirmy warpaint, glowing tattoos, hand of gork
Wardokk w/ big wurrgog mask, brutal beast spirits
Wardokk w/ mystic Waaagh paint, squiggly curse
Wardokk w/ bone krusha
Wardokk w/ gorkamorka war cry.30 moreboys
30 moreboys
5 boarboysAllies: Rogue Idol
Battalions: Kopp Rukk, Drakkfoot warclanTotal: 1980
As much as I liked having the maniac Wierdnob's spell, it just made more sense to go with a 4th wardokk. That way both units of moreboys can get the Kopp Rukk buffs, it gets the bonuses to cast, and it's a 4th chance to roll a weird dance. To free up points for the extra Moreboys I had to give up the maniacs and go with a single unit of 5 boarboys. This way I still have some speed in the list to go after ranged units and objectives.
I think this will be a lot better in the long run, though giving up the boarboy maniacs was hard to do.
Also, I have just bought an Incarnate Elemental of fire. Since the Drakkfoot clan is from Aqshy it would make some sense that a wurrgog and friends could channel the essence of his plane and summon a creature composed of it. I haven't seen the ghb18 yet, but as far as I know there are no reserve points any more period, so if I summon it through a spell it doesn't cost anything (at least at present. I fully expect it to change in the future, but for now it's fair game). This gives me a "free" unit to help compensate for the exorbitant cost of the Drakkfoot. The only drawback is that it is an insane 11 to cast. I will mitigate this a bit with the +2 to cast from the kopp rukk, +1 from the idol, and weird dance bonuses (which I believe multiple dances stack), and doubles always succeeding from the Drakkfoot. Even if I fail to cast it all game, it's just a failed spell every turn instead of 300 points down the drain.
I plan to use it as a distraction to help my army advance some what in tact, and potentially snipe a hero or other unit. It is also a sacrificial lamb to trigger the moreboy bonuses for when a monster dies.
Yeah, this may be gaming the rules a bit, but with so many other armies getting free units, I feel that if you pull off an 11 to cast spell you deserve the free unit. If it gets changed that I have to pay points for it, then I'll just include it in my 2,500 point list.
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On 6/22/2018 at 12:38 AM, PlasticCraic said:
Yeah it looks good! Two things I'm wondering:
1) Do you need the Rogue Idol (since you will get most casts through anyway)? I know there is synergy there, but it could be nice to have your combat unit with the Bonesplitterz keyword to benefit from the Prophet's CA and the Drakkfoot unique spell. And you won't be debuffing your own bravery. Worth a try I guess, and it would be nice to see the Big Fella on the table!
2) Is there a way to fit some Endless Spells in, because new shiny? For example that last unit of Morr Boys in Sam's list could become 3x Boar Boys to free up 20 points (gets you the swords), you could drop the Prophet to another Wardokk (sacrifice 1 cast but maximise Drakfoot benefits and free up 40 points), and if you did go Big Stabbas you could put 6 in for 300 points and free up 100 that way.
It also depends what the new Rogue Idol warscroll looks like, and whether Endless Spells count towards your drops?
I love the Idol, and it's one of the few monsters I can justify allying in. Not only does he buff casting, but also bravery (which helps the gorkamorka warcry), he has rend 2 and mortal wound output, which takes the place of big stabbas in this list. Lastly, if he dies, he can trigger the buffs for Moreboys if there are no other monsters to kill.
On 6/21/2018 at 11:27 PM, svnvaldez said:@bonzai I really like the look of your list: I'd swap for more Morboyz and I think its amazing
Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- General
Wardokk (100)
Wardokk (100)
Wardokk (100)
Wardokk (100)
Battleline
30 x Savage Orruk Morboys (300)
30 x Savage Orruk Morboys (300)
10 x Savage Orruk Morboys (120)
Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)
Battalions
Kop Rukk (200)
Drakkfoot Warclan (140)
Total: 2000 / 2000That does give me some ideas. Maybe swap the maniac weirdnob for a 4th wardokk and the 2nd group of maniac boarboys to bring the 2nd moreboy squad up to 30. And maybe change the other maniac boarboy squad for a normal boarboy squad for an endless spell. I will have to play around with configurations. I do want to keep at least one boar squad for speed and tying up shooting unit or grabbing objectives.
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13 hours ago, CharnelChimera said:
Has anyone figured out if Drakkfoot/Kopp Rukk could work?
I am going to be trying out this list once I get my GHB18.
Wurrgog w/ squirmy warpaint, glowing tattoos, hand of gork
Wardokk w/ big wurrgog mask, brutal beast spirits
Wardokk w/ mystic Waaagh paint, squiggly curse
Wardokk w/ bone krusha
Maniac Wierdnob w/ gorkamorka war cry.30 moreboys
10 moreboys
5 boarboy maniacs
5 boarboy maniacs
Allies: Rogue Idol
Battalions: Kopp Rukk, Drakkfoot warclanTotal: 2,000
There are a ton of synergies here, which I like a lot. The wardokks are going to start at +3 to cast, not including any weird dances, which should help get through increased unbinding threat. With doubles always succeeding, it's going to be hard to actually fail to cast a spell. I'll have pretty much all of our factions spell roster at my disposal, and every caster has some sort of mortal wound output. The red waaagh paint should protect against endless spells whether they do damage or not. 2 drops, 3 artifacts, and 3 command points first turn.
My main problem is a serious lack of bodies. Hopefully all the buffs and extra pile ins should let me compensate for that some what. I'll be testing it out.
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AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I have had a brayherd army pretty much implode on a brick of 40 clan rats. It just comes down to the support you put on them. In my case I had gnaw-gnaw, inspiring presence, and death frenzy up. 2 attacks, on 3+/3+, and when they die getting to pile in and attack again can deal a lot of wounds.
YMMV though... as I was typically going up against low armor targets, or just tarpitting high armor ones while wearing them down with mortal wounds.